Do you have the believe the Bible is the 100% word of God to be a Christian?

[OzmO]

I do not believe accepting the story of Jonah as true is a prerequisite for becoming a Christian.

I believe being a Christian doesn't focus upon a whale story but focuses on Jesus as Savior (which includes who He is and what He has done for us), and accepting Him as that.   


Romans 3:23-24:

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus

I really doubt a great many professed Christians have read the bible cover to cover or have read it in such a way they understand each verse.  It's not a Dean Koontz style of writing for sure.  I think most at some point tune it out even as they read it because it is difficult to read.

Further more I'd be willing to bet a great number of professed christians believe in evolution.

[OzmO]

Christians are believers in and followers of Jesus Christ.  Jesus Christ believed that the Old Testament was The Word of God and quoted it constantly.  Jesus Christ's apostles believed that the Old Testament was The Word of God.  Why wouldn't a Christian believe that all of the Bible is The Word of God?

Even Richard Dawkins said that if Christians who believe all of the Bible betray reason, those Christians who do not believe all of the Bible betray both, reason and faith.  How do you pick and choose what is from God and what isn't?  Richard Dawkins asked.  He's got a good point.

By the way, OzmO, why do you exclude Jews?  Many religious Jews today believe that all of the Old Testament is 100% The World of God.  Why do you hate Christians so much?

I don't hate Christians.  I question the christian beliefs so much because there are IMO stark contradictions.   And that's the religion i know most about and am surrounded most with.  Also, Is the Jewish Bible just the books of the OT? I pretty sure it isn't if i remember correctly.   Don't have things like the book of Enoch?

I agree with you.  How do you pick and choose which is god an which isn't god in the bible.  For me, it's obvious that certain instances are not god.

[big L dawg]

Jesus Christ Himself said

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
Matthew 12:40 (New International Version)

really he said that huh.how do you know?....oh because the bible tells you so.

[fitt@40]

The question asked is, "Do you have (to) believe the Bible is the 100% word of God to be a Christian?"  It's not asking have you read the entire Bible or do you understand all of it, but rather do you believe.  I say absolutely!  If we do not believe it to be 100% true, what part do we dismiss?  What percentage do believe? 

OzmO, you speak as though you have trouble with God because you feel as though He has wrong some people.  Let me share something with you, but first I ask that you open your mind to hearing it.  If your willing read on, if not, may God still Bless you.    I say that you must first pause and look at God for who He really is.  Imagine a Spiritual being that is perfection in every sense of the word.  Imagine a being that is incapable of lying or committing sin.  This is God.  Someone once asked me if God is perfection and created everything, then why did he create evil?  God did not create evil.  Evil is the absence of God.  We (humans) do things that separate us from God or put us in an evil state.  Most are not aware that there are some things that we do that causes generationals curses.  In other words, it's possible that my great great great great grandfather committed a sin that I have to pay for.  We break the generational curses, and those we start by accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour. 

I'll give you the greatest example of God separating Himself from man's sin.  Do you recall when Christ was on the cross?  He cried out (paraphrasing) Father, why have thou forsaken me?   Most understand that Christ died for our sins.  However, most don't realize that he became sin....not that he sinned....for us.  This is how He defeated sin.  Scripture tells us that the wages of sin is death.  When Christ rose on the third day, He defeat sin and death.  When He became sin for us, God had to forsake Him because He can not be with evil.  He does the same with us.  We sin and bring evil into our lives.  This is why it's important for a Christian to pray constantly.  I do not believe God will hold us accountable when we unknowingly commit sin, but the rules still apply.  You may not be kept out of Heaven under these circumstances, but you will be without the full protection of God.

If is truly your desire to know and understand God, PM me.  We can talk.  There is much I have to learn, but there are some things that have been revealed to me.  The most important being, God is God and the only way to Him is through Christ. 

 

[OzmO]

The question asked is, "Do you have (to) believe the Bible is the 100% word of God to be a Christian?"  It's not asking have you read the entire Bible or do you understand all of it, but rather do you believe.  I say absolutely!  If we do not believe it to be 100% true, what part do we dismiss?  What percentage do believe? 

OzmO, you speak as though you have trouble with God because you feel as though He has wrong some people.  Let me share something with you, but first I ask that you open your mind to hearing it.  If your willing read on, if not, may God still Bless you.    I say that you must first pause and look at God for who He really is.  Imagine a Spiritual being that is perfection in every sense of the word.  Imagine a being that is incapable of lying or committing sin.  This is God.  Someone once asked me if God is perfection and created everything, then why did he create evil?  God did not create evil.  Evil is the absence of God.  We (humans) do things that separate us from God or put us in an evil state.  Most are not aware that there are some things that we do that causes generationals curses.  In other words, it's possible that my great great great great grandfather committed a sin that I have to pay for.  We break the generational curses, and those we start by accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour. 

I'll give you the greatest example of God separating Himself from man's sin.  Do you recall when Christ was on the cross?  He cried out (paraphrasing) Father, why have thou forsaken me?   Most understand that Christ died for our sins.  However, most don't realize that he became sin....not that he sinned....for us.  This is how He defeated sin.  Scripture tells us that the wages of sin is death.  When Christ rose on the third day, He defeat sin and death.  When He became sin for us, God had to forsake Him because He can not be with evil.  He does the same with us.  We sin and bring evil into our lives.  This is why it's important for a Christian to pray constantly.  I do not believe God will hold us accountable when we unknowingly commit sin, but the rules still apply.  You may not be kept out of Heaven under these circumstances, but you will be without the full protection of God.

If is truly your desire to know and understand God, PM me.  We can talk.  There is much I have to learn, but there are some things that have been revealed to me.  The most important being, God is God and the only way to Him is through Christ. 

First off, I acknowledge and appreciate your intentions. 

God has not wronged me in anyway or IMO wronged anyone I know.  I understand Christian salvation.  My issues stem from Bible literalists and that most people who profess to be Christians either don't know the OT, the murdering, suffering, slavery etc.. at the hands of God or aren't literalists. 

What I'm starting to get from some of you here, not all, is that you must be Bible literalist to be a Christian.  Is this true?

[fitt@40]

First off, I acknowledge and appreciate your intentions. 

God has not wronged me in anyway or IMO wronged anyone I know.  I understand Christian salvation.  My issues stem from Bible literalists and that most people who profess to be Christians either don't know the OT, the murdering, suffering, slavery etc.. at the hands of God or aren't literalists. 

What I'm starting to get from some of you here, not all, is that you must be Bible literalist to be a Christian.  Is this true?

Yes, a Christian person, without doubt, must believe that the Bible is literally true.  I disagree that God committed murder or commissioned slavery.   The "slavery" mentioned in the OT is often confused with slavery as we know it today.  It truly means servant.  There are scriptures that tells how a servant is supposed to be treated.  It's nothing like "slavery" as we know it.  As for murder and suffering, it wasn't murder or suffering just for the sake of suffering.  These are things the result of man's disobedience.  The price of sin has always been suffering and death.  There are two instances that come to mind whereby suffering was allowed and it wasn't the result sin.  The first is Job.  God allowed him to be tormented by the enemy, though Job was a righteous man.  Also, Christ was once asked what sin a certain man, or his ancestors, had committed that caused him to be born blind.  Christ told him (paraphrasing) that he had committed no sins, but rather he had been born blind so that the wonder of God could be seen.

It is wise to note that God is a jealous God.  When the Pharaoh refused to free God's people, the Bible tells us that God hardened the Pharaoh's heart.  He did this because Pharaoh had proclaimed himself to be a god.  Had Pharaoh free the people when Moses requested, the people would have seen it as the Pharaoh's decision to do so.  I had a friend tell me once that he would not want to serve such a Petty God.  I say, I do not want to be on the wrong side of Him.

[OzmO]

Yes, a Christian person, without doubt, must believe that the Bible is literally true.  I disagree that God committed murder or commissioned slavery.   The "slavery" mentioned in the OT is often confused with slavery as we know it today.  It truly means servant.  There are scriptures that tells how a servant is supposed to be treated.  It's nothing like "slavery" as we know it.  As for murder and suffering, it wasn't murder or suffering just for the sake of suffering.  These are things the result of man's disobedience.  The price of sin has always been suffering and death.  There are two instances that come to mind whereby suffering was allowed and it wasn't the result sin.  The first is Job.  God allowed him to be tormented by the enemy, though Job was a righteous man.  Also, Christ was once asked what sin a certain man, or his ancestors, had committed that caused him to be born blind.  Christ told him (paraphrasing) that he had committed no sins, but rather he had been born blind so that the wonder of God could be seen.

It is wise to note that God is a jealous God.  When the Pharaoh refused to free God's people, the Bible tells us that God hardened the Pharaoh's heart.  He did this because Pharaoh had proclaimed himself to be a god.  Had Pharaoh free the people when Moses requested, the people would have seen it as the Pharaoh's decision to do so.  I had a friend tell me once that he would not want to serve such a Petty God.  I say, I do not want to be on the wrong side of Him.

Well then i would imagine a great many "professed christians" are not really Christians (maybe 70-80%) and that to be a Christian you must accept Jesus as your savior AND believe the bible is the 100% word of god.  Which doesn't make much sense because the Bible wasnt even entirely written when Jesus sacrificed his life for our sins and Jesus did not at anytime say you must believe that this chosen collection (400 some years later) of jewish holy books are the WOG to get to heaven.

Additionally, I've read the passages on slavery in the Bible, it was the topic of another thread a month or two ago.  It looks like just like slavery to me.  It even uses the word slavery, NOT servant.  Why do you suppose that is?  Maybe because in addition to being describe as slavery in the verses, it was slavery NOT servitude.  Otherwise wouldn't you think that after thousands of years it would have been changed?  Or maybe people are just stupid.

Also, God killed innocent children on several occasions in the OT making him a hypocrite and a murderer, if the god identified in those verses is in fact god which based the assertions that god is just and true, merciful and loving, it makes those verses false, putting into question every other verse in the bible, effectively taking away fire and brimstone, arrogant judgement, and over righteousness from every pastor, bible thumper and holy roller in the world.   

[MCWAY]

Yes, a Christian person, without doubt, must believe that the Bible is literally true.  I disagree that God committed murder or commissioned slavery.   The "slavery" mentioned in the OT is often confused with slavery as we know it today.  It truly means servant.  There are scriptures that tells how a servant is supposed to be treated.  It's nothing like "slavery" as we know it.  As for murder and suffering, it wasn't murder or suffering just for the sake of suffering.  These are things the result of man's disobedience.  The price of sin has always been suffering and death.  There are two instances that come to mind whereby suffering was allowed and it wasn't the result sin.  The first is Job.  God allowed him to be tormented by the enemy, though Job was a righteous man.  Also, Christ was once asked what sin a certain man, or his ancestors, had committed that caused him to be born blind.  Christ told him (paraphrasing) that he had committed no sins, but rather he had been born blind so that the wonder of God could be seen.

And, as mentioned on other occasions, the wors part about the price of sin is that, too often, the transgressor isn't the only one who pays that price. People in certain positions can commit sin, with the consequences not only affecting them but everyone else under their authority.

It is wise to note that God is a jealous God.  When the Pharaoh refused to free God's people, the Bible tells us that God hardened the Pharaoh's heart.  He did this because Pharaoh had proclaimed himself to be a god.  Had Pharaoh free the people when Moses requested, the people would have seen it as the Pharaoh's decision to do so.  I had a friend tell me once that he would not want to serve such a Petty God.  I say, I do not want to be on the wrong side of Him.

Regarding what you said about Pharoah and the whole Exodus thing, some folks just have to learn the hard way. Remember that God gave Pharoah NINE chances to release Israel, before hitting Egypt with the one thing that finally got him to crack. To me the hardening of Pharaoh's heart was simply giving Pharaoh a little bit of wiggle room to doubt whether the plagues were really from God or just mere coincidence.

It reminds me of that scene in "The Ten Commandments", when Pharoah gets mad at his priests and Moses. He accused them of making up the gods to prey upon man's fears, later handing them a parchment with a report of "red mud", coming from a mountain and into the waters. He deduces that this was the source of the previous plagues and had nothing to do with Moses. Thus, he won't free the Israelites.

Monarchs in the ancient world tend to get a big ego, some to the point where they think they are gods, due to their unchecked earthly power. It took the tenth plague (slaying of the firstborn) to get it in Pharoah’s head, that he is not the Almighty; God is.

As for your friend's statement about God being petty and his not wanting to serve Him, my response would have been that I would want to serve Him, because He keeps His covenant. When the time came to free the Israelites, He did just that and there wasn't a darn thing that Pharoah could do about it.
It wasn't a matter of IF he would free them; it was a matter of when he would (and how many lumps he'd have to take before doing so).

[OzmO]

There's another good example of God's (the false God of the OT) lust for killing children.

An ordinary egyptian citizen, goes to work every day, works hard to feed his family, has a new born baby son.  Has NO SAY in what the pharaoh does. 
But God murders his innocent son.

All hail, god the loving, just and merciful!

[fitt@40]

There's another good example of God's (the false God of the OT) lust for killing children.

An ordinary egyptian citizen, goes to work every day, works hard to feed his family, has a new born baby son.  Has NO SAY in what the pharaoh does. 
But God murders his innocent son.

All hail, god the loving, just and merciful!

Let us just agree to disagree.

[OzmO]

Let us just agree to disagree.

Children who never did anything to anyone, innocent babes, were not murdered by the hand of GOD?

[fitt@40]

Children who never did anything to anyone, innocent babes, were not murdered by the hand of GOD?

In one of my recent posts, I spoke of how actions of our ancestors can cause generational curses.  This is Scripture.  As I have said before, I would not call the wages of sin murder.  If you say God committed these murders, does that mean you believe He exists and that you do not agree with these "murders" He committed?

[OzmO]

In one of my recent posts, I spoke of how actions of our ancestors can cause generational curses.  This is Scripture.  As I have said before, I would not call the wages of sin murder.  If you say God committed these murders, does that mean you believe He exists and that you do not agree with these "murders" He committed?

According to what you believe did he not murder innocent children?

[MCWAY]

In one of my recent posts, I spoke of how actions of our ancestors can cause generational curses.  This is Scripture.  As I have said before, I would not call the wages of sin murder.  If you say God committed these murders, does that mean you believe He exists and that you do not agree with these "murders" He committed?

Fitt@40 hit it on the head. The wages of sin is death. Unfortunately, that’s not just limited to the sinner. It goes back to what I just said. People in authority can commit transgressions that affect everyone under their authority. A king’s sin can ruin (and some cases, end) the lives of his subjects, as was the case with Pharoah.

According to what you believe did he not murder innocent children?

I'll take a guess and say the 2nd commandment. Again, when people's sins are aggregious enough, they can have long-reaching effects, hence the generational curses mentioned earlier.

[OzmO]

Bump.

Still haven't any scripture that says a person needs to the believe the Bible is the 100% WOG to be saved.

[Government_Controlled]

Bump.

Still haven't any scripture that says a person needs to the believe the Bible is the 100% WOG to be saved.

I can work  with you on this, however, not in the same demeanor that has been displayed in this forum over the last few weeks. In a nut shell, we have to believe what Jesus taught, eh?



CG/DEA_AGENT

[Hugo Chavez]

Jesus Christ Himself said

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
Matthew 12:40 (New International Version)

wait... Jesus called a whale a fish? 

[OzmO]

I can work  with you on this, however, not in the same demeanor that has been displayed in this forum over the last few weeks. In a nut shell, we have to believe what Jesus taught, eh?



CG/DEA_AGENT

We don't have to believe anything.  It is or it isn't. 

And the Bible either says it or it doesn't.  right?


Also, much of what you see here on this forum is long discussions years old.  The exchanges are escalations.  No worries.  I'll keep it civil.   

[Dos Equis]

I really doubt a great many professed Christians have read the bible cover to cover or have read it in such a way they understand each verse.  It's not a Dean Koontz style of writing for sure.  I think most at some point tune it out even as they read it because it is difficult to read.

Further more I'd be willing to bet a great number of professed christians believe in evolution.

Darwin's Birthday Poll: Fewer Than 4 in 10 Believe in Evolution
Thursday, February 12, 2009

A new poll released just in time for Charles Darwin's 200th birthday found that only 39 percent of Americans say they "believe in the theory of evolution," and just 24 percent of those who attend church weekly believe in that explanation for the development of life on Earth.

The Gallup survey, released Wednesday, found a quarter of those polled do not believe in evolution, and 36 percent said they don't have an opinion either way.

Another survey by the Pew Research Center got similar results.

The Gallup poll of 1,018 American adults found strong ties between education level and belief in the theory of evolution.

"Among those with high-school educations or less who have an opinion on Darwin's theory, more say they do not believe in evolution than say they believe in it," Gallup found. "For all other groups, and in particular those who have at least a college degree, belief is significantly higher than nonbelief."

Just 21 percent of respondents who had up to a high school level of education believe in evolution, compared with 74 percent of those with postgraduate degrees.

Frank Newport, Gallup's editor-in-chief, wrote that attitudes were shaped to an even greater degree by religion.

"Previous Gallup research shows that the rate of church attendance is fairly constant across educational groups, suggesting that this relationship is not owing to an underlying educational difference but instead reflects a direct influence of religious beliefs on belief in evolution," he said.

Among weekly churchgoers, only 24 percent said they believe in evolution, while 41 percent do not and 35 percent have no opinion.

Inversely, 55 percent of those who seldom or never attend church expressed belief in evolution, while 11 percent do not, and 34 percent have no opinion.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491345,00.html

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=263995.0

[Government_Controlled]

We don't have to believe anything.  It is or it isn't. 

What I meant was, that we have to believe what Jesus taught if we want to have his blessing. I say this because, the Scriptures say that even the demons believe.  (James 2:19) "You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder". So, I was getting that even if one believes that Jesus exist and died for us, we still have to do more.

If Jesus quotes and acknowledges that the Hebrew Scriptures are valid shouldn't we follow that teaching also?

And the Bible either says it or it doesn't.  right?

Yes my friend, it does. Although sometimes the Bible might not spell things out directly.

Also, much of what you see here on this forum is long discussions years old.  The exchanges are escalations.  No worries.  I'll keep it civil.   

Thank you friend, I do appreciate that.


GC/DEA_AGENT

[OzmO]

What I meant was, that we have to believe what Jesus taught if we want to have his blessing. I say this because, the Scriptures say that even the demons believe.  (James 2:19) "You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder". So, I was getting that even if one believes that Jesus exist and died for us, we still have to do more.

Yeah,  you have to accept him in your heart right?  Simply believing in him doesn't save you right?

If Jesus quotes and acknowledges that the Hebrew Scriptures are valid shouldn't we follow that teaching also?

That's implied, not directly said.  Should we only follow the ones he quoted?  Did he say to follow them?  Did he say to follow all of them?

Yes my friend, it does. Although sometimes the Bible might not spell things out directly.

I haven't seen anything that's even indirect.

[loco]

wait... Jesus called a whale a fish? 

Where does it say whale?

[loco]

That's implied, not directly said.  Should we only follow the ones he quoted?  Did he say to follow them?  Did he say to follow all of them?
I haven't seen anything that's even indirect.

Proof right there that you have not even read the Gospels.

[OzmO]

Proof right there that you have not even read the Gospels.

Still out to get me eh drama queen?

 

[loco]

Still out to get me eh drama queen?

 

No, you name caller!  Read the four Gospels, highlighting everything Jesus says about the scripture, God's word being the truth, obeying God's word, etc. as you read them.  Then come back and look at what your are saying now.