Author Topic: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison  (Read 13760 times)

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Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« on: March 09, 2009, 11:38:39 AM »
http://www.all-natural.com/tamox.html


by Sherrill Sellman
Extracted from Nexus Magazine, Volume 5, #4 (June - July 1998)

TAMOXIFEN'S DARK SIDE
While the initial findings of tamoxifen's role in breast cancer treatment seemed so promising, as with so many of the synthetic hormone drugs, further research presented grave concerns for its widespread use. In fact, the MIMS Annual lists 25 adverse reactions to tamoxifen: some of l these can be fatal.


Eye Damage
According to a 1978 study in Cancer Treatment Reports and another published in Cancer in 1992, about six per cent of women taking even low-dose tamoxifen suffer damage to the retina and corneal opacities and decreased visual acuity. Irreversible corneal and retinal changes can occur in those taking 20 mg. of tamoxifen twice a day (twice the usual dose). These changes may have no immediate effect on visual acuity, but may predispose the eyes to later problems including cataracts.


Blood Clots
Tamoxifen irritates the walls of the veins, and inflammation (a natural healing response to irritation) follows. The constant irritation and inflammation weakens the veins, causing bleeding, clotting, thrombophlebitis and, in the worst cases, obstruction of the blood vessels serving the lungs, which can be deadly and can occur with little warning. The incidence of thrombophlebitis in women using oral contraceptives is generally regarded as significant (1 in 2,000); however, with tamoxifen it's 30 times greater."

Several studies, including one reported to the FDA's Oncological Drugs Advisory Committee by the National Surgical Adjuvant Breast and Bowel Project in 1991, showed that the risk of developing life-threatening blood clots increases about seven times in women taking tamoxifen. (6)


Psychological Symptoms
Depression has been reported as a potential side-effect of tamoxifen in 30 per cent of women. Cases have been reported of an inability to concentrate.

It is important that patients observe their moods and mental states. If it is suspected at tamoxifen is causing depression or lack of concentration, it is suggested that a period of tamoxifen avoidance be considered.


Other Symptoms
Tamoxifen can trigger asthma attacks in some sensitive patients.

Changes to the vocal cords resulting in impairment of singing and speaking abilities are occasionally caused by tamoxifen.


CARCINOGENENIC EFFECTS
It wasn't long before laboratory studies showed that tamoxifen acted as a carcinogen. It has been found that tamoxifen binds tightly and irreversibly to DNA, the genetic blueprint of a cell, causing a cancerous mutation to take place. Even Australia's conservative National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC) warned that no amount of tamoxifen is safe when it comes to carcinogenic effects.

In California there is a law called "Proposition 65" that requires the state to publish and maintain a list of all known carcinogens. In May 1995, the state's Carcinogen Identification Committee voted unanimously to add tamoxifen to its list.

Following suit, in 1996 the World Health Organization formally designated tamoxifen a human carcinogen, grouping it with 70 other chemicals — about one quarter of them pharmaceuticals — that have received this dubious distinction.
Cont...


Liver Cancer and Liver Disease
Tamoxifen is toxic to the liver, and there have been reports of acute hepatitis in patients treated with tamoxifen. Liver damage has occurred in every animal given tamoxifen. According to Gary Williams, medical director of the American Heart Foundation, tamoxifen has been shown in animal studies to be a "rip-roaring" liver carcinogen, inducing highly aggressive cancers in about 12 per cent of rats. (7)

The latest human studies show a six-fold increase in liver cancer among women taking tamoxifen for more than two years." Liver failure and tamoxifen-induced hepatitis, although rare, have been reported. Even Zeneca admits that tamoxifen is a liver carcinogen — while nevertheless aggressively promoting its use.


Heart Disease and Osteoporosis
Another promise of tamoxifen was its supposed protective benefits for the heart and bones. It was theorized that its estrogenic properties would help reduce heart disease and osteoporosis in women, but once again the theory crumbled under the weight of hard facts.

Several trials with tamoxifen failed to show that it has any effect on bone density and thus on prevention of osteoporosis. In three other trials, bone density increased slightly in lower spinal vertebrae but not in longer bones or hip bones which are particularly susceptible to fractures and potentially fatal complications.

Initial data seemed to indicate that it decreased the incidence of heart attacks, but they have been disproved by more recent studies. According to Dr. Susan Love: "It doesn't seem to have a bad effect on lipids, but that's a far cry from preventing heart attacks."

A detailed review of the drug's alleged protective cardiovascular effects prompted the British National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, a once strong proponent of tamoxifen, to withdraw its support because the evidence of benefit proved so inadequate. (25)

According to the January 1996 issue of The Network News, it was reported at a closed-door meeting of the National Cancer Institute that tamoxifen failed to prevent heart disease in breast cancer patients.


THE BREAST CANCER PREVENTION TRIAL
Based far more on wishful thinking than on science, the U.S. National Cancer Institute (NCI) leaped to the conclusion that tamoxifen's anti-estrogenic effects in relation to breast cancer treatment meant that the drug would prevent breast cancer from developing in healthy women.

Disregarding all the research implicating tamoxifen with serious and potentially fatal side-effects, the NCI launched a US$60 million breast cancer prevention trial in April 1992, aiming to recruit 16,000 healthy women in the United States, Europe, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Still ongoing, the trial now involves 13,000 healthy women over the age of 35 who are considered at high risk. Australia has recruited 1,350 women, with a target of 2,500. For five years, half the women receive tamoxifen and half receive a placebo. The drug is supplied free of charge by manufacturer Zeneca.

Dr. Samuel Epstein, Professor Environmental Medicine at the University of Illinois School of Public Health and author of The Breast Cancer Prevention Program, raises serious concerns. "Unfortunately, this misguided and dangerous approach to prevention stems from the entrenched fixation of the NCI on the use of chemical drugs to prevent cancer which may have been induced by chemical pollutants, medical technology (such as radiation from X-rays) and carcinogenic/estrogenic drugs in the first place. Instead of attempting to reduce the carcinogenic chemical burden under which we struggle to maintain our health, the NCI believes that the solution is to add more chemicals to the mix."

Dr. Susan Love concurs: "It is a sad state of affairs when we have to add yet more chemicals to counteract the effects of other chemicals."

This attitude extends to the way the NCI treats the women in the trial. They are given no guidance on alternative protective measures such as increasing exercise, maintaining a healthy weight, eating a protective diet and avoiding exposure to environmental carcinogens; nor are they being fully informed about the serious risks of tamoxifen.

Dr. Lynette Dumble, Senior Research Fellow in History and Philosophy of Science at the University of Melbourne, believes that the global trial to prevent breast cancer with tamoxifen is a modern and very large chapter of "medical imperialism". Back in October 1994 she commented on ABC TV's Quantum science program that the tamoxifen trial was the medical equivalent of mutilating surgery which prevents a woman from developing breast cancer by cutting off both her breasts.

Dr. Dumble sees women as vulnerable guinea pigs for the trial, and questions both the breast cancer risk of healthy women volunteering for the trial (how can you tell whether fate or tamoxifen prevents a woman from developing breast cancer?) and the terms of the trial's positives and negatives (if a woman dies of tamoxifen-related endometrial or liver cancer, does this count as a tamoxifen success in preventing breast cancer?).

It seems absurd, but why would the powers-that-be continue to promote a trial that promises to substitute one cancer for another in otherwise healthy women? Once again, healthy women are targeted as the guinea pigs for a drug treatment that has already been proven to be a cause of a variety of cancers including breast cancer. In the case of tamoxifen, medical research has once again taken a back seat to profits. It is the population that is at risk. The cancer establishment would certainly be eager to prove a tamoxifen-prevention role, since it would then open up another huge, billion-dollar market.


It is widely believed that today's drugs are tomorrow's poisons. In the case of tamoxifen, tomorrow has already arrived.

ignorance

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2009, 05:40:31 AM »
Wow. eye opener.

Good read.

powerpack

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 10:51:17 AM »
When I did cycle I was a big fan of TAMOXIFEN for PCT because it was so cheap and easy to get over here.
This is a suprise

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2009, 07:09:25 PM »
Liver Cancer and Liver Disease
Tamoxifen is toxic to the liver, and there have been reports of acute hepatitis in patients treated with tamoxifen. Liver damage has occurred in every animal given tamoxifen. According to Gary Williams, medical director of the American Heart Foundation, tamoxifen has been shown in animal studies to be a "rip-roaring" liver carcinogen, inducing highly aggressive cancers in about 12 per cent of rats. (7)

The latest human studies show a six-fold increase in liver cancer among women taking tamoxifen for more than two years." Liver failure and tamoxifen-induced hepatitis, although rare, have been reported. Even Zeneca admits that tamoxifen is a liver carcinogen — while nevertheless aggressively promoting its use.

I'd like to see a study on male bodybuilders using Nolvadex as PCT just to see if there's any incidence of liver cancer.



DIV
I'm a ghost in these killing fields...

rccs

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2009, 01:13:22 PM »
I'd like to see a study on male bodybuilders using Nolvadex as PCT just to see if there's any incidence of liver cancer.



DIV
It all seems too much fatalist. I also read something like this about proviron. What is your favorite deug for PCT, now?
S

4thAD

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2009, 07:35:09 PM »
150mg test ew haha! If I was going to come off completely right now I would run clomid with aromasin.

Vet

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2009, 07:04:06 AM »
I'd like to see a study on male bodybuilders using Nolvadex as PCT just to see if there's any incidence of liver cancer.



DIV
It won't happen.  it'll more than likely be blamed on the anabolic steroids first, then the other drugs. 

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2009, 09:33:14 AM »
Yep, and not for the 1st time..   >:(

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2009, 10:07:24 PM »
is nolva still being used today by doctors for breast cancer help?  the studies seem a bit old.  not doubting, just wondering if new evidence has come to light.

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2009, 12:29:06 AM »
allnatural.com - an unbiased source ????


ManLaw

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2010, 10:39:24 AM »
so clomid>nolva?

Ive read alot od pple on these boards saying to take both for pct

4thAD

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2010, 09:27:08 AM »
Run one or the other. I still run nolva sometimes when on cycle, but at very minimal doses.

For PCT all you need is one of the two. You can even run clomid as low as 25mg ed.

ManLaw

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2010, 12:46:57 PM »
Run one or the other. I still run nolva sometimes when on cycle, but at very minimal doses.

For PCT all you need is one of the two. You can even run clomid as low as 25mg ed.
What should my PCT look like for 10 weeks 500mg of Test-e?

4thAD

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2010, 11:52:37 AM »
Personally I would run 3 weeks clomid 25mg ed, and aromasin 25 6 weeks 25mg ed.

4thAD

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2010, 11:11:05 AM »
Personally I would run 3 weeks clomid 25mg ed, and aromasin 25 6 weeks 25mg ed.

The more research I do on tamoxifen, the less I believe the above article. It is true that endometrial cancer can be doubled in some women from the use of tamoxifen, but the rates of cancer are very low.



Tamoxifen Poses Slightly Greater Risk of Uterine Sarcoma
Key Words: breast cancer, tamoxifen, uterine cancer. (Definitions of many terms related to cancer can be found in the Cancer.gov Dictionary.)

It's been known that tamoxifen -- a commonly prescribed treatment and prevention drug for breast cancer -- increases the risk of endometrial cancer (cancer of the lining of the uterus). Now researchers with a large breast cancer study project and representatives from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) report that tamoxifen also slightly raises the risk of uterine sarcoma, a rare cancer of the muscles or other supporting tissue of the uterus.
U.S regulations require drug manufacturers to report adverse drug reactions to the FDA. A recent analysis of the FDA's Adverse Events database showed an increased risk of uterine sarcoma for women taking tamoxifen. The National Surgical Adjuvant Breast and Bowel Project (NSABP) also analyzed its clinical trial data to evaluate the possible association between tamoxifen use and an increased risk of uterine cancer based on case-control studies from Europe published in 2000.

[Editor's note: These data were subsequently published in a letter to the New England Journal of Medicine and a letter to the Journal of Clinical Oncology.]
On Monday, May 13, 2002, the online version of the Journal of Clinical Oncology published a letter from the NSABP that analyzed uterine sarcoma risk in women using tamoxifen during the Project's 30-plus years of clinical trials. NSABP found that of 17,000 women taking tamoxifen as part of their research studies, 12 developed uterine sarcomas. NSABP estimates that the five-year incidence of uterine sarcoma in women taking tamoxifen is less than one-tenth of one percent.

The FDA presented its data on May 20, 2002, at the annual meeting of the American Society of Clinical Oncology (ASCO) in Orlando, Fla., and has submitted a letter to a prominent medical journal for publication. In addition to the JCO letter, NSABP has sent out a letter to its members. AstraZeneca, the maker of tamoxifen, will also be sending out a letter the week of May 20 alerting more than 200,000 U.S. health professionals to the findings.

Estrogen promotes the growth of breast cancer cells. Tamoxifen works against the effects of estrogen on these cells. As a treatment for breast cancer, the drug slows or stops the growth of cancer cells that are present in the body. As adjuvant (after surgery) therapy, tamoxifen helps prevent the original breast cancer from returning and also helps prevent the development of new cancers in the other breast. Tamoxifen has been demonstrated to improve relapse-free and overall survival for women with hormone-receptor positive breast cancer.

The prognosis for women with uterine sarcoma or endometrial cancer who had taken tamoxifen is no worse than for women not exposed to tamoxifen. Patients who are concerned about the risks and benefits of tamoxifen or any other medications are encouraged to discuss these concerns with their doctor. A tamoxifen fact sheet prepared by the National Cancer Institute's Cancer Information Service might also be helpful.

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2010, 10:42:52 AM »
I've held off on this thread for a while, but one thing i have learned about hormones and life in general is that ANYTHING can give you cancer. People are drinking all these diet sodas that are pretty much laced with very low amounts of toxins that do cause cancer and even effect the firing order inside your brain.

I have been a member of the MD Anderson Cancer Research Center here in Houston for years, and i promise you just about anything can cause cancer. It is just that some chemicals have a higher "rate" or "probability" of causing it, like the toxins found within cigarette filters, paper, tobacco, plastic, factory emissions, leather cleaners, bug sprays, wood varnish...they say the air pollution on the SE side of Houston is so bad because of all the chemical plants that breathing air each day is equivalent to smoking a pack of cigs a day.

Good thread 4th, but don't scare too many people, our Government is doing a good enough job of that already.


8)

rccs

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2010, 12:36:15 PM »
I also read somewhere that nolva can, for it self, increase endogenous test production...
S

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2010, 11:51:36 PM »
not only does allnatural.com sound like a bias source, it also does not sound very reputable

4thAD

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2010, 12:00:23 PM »
not only does allnatural.com sound like a bias source, it also does not sound very reputable

Why do you say that (is it because Nolva isn't natural:))? I think some of the info here is spot on. Some of it may be BS the more I learn about it though.

bell29

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2010, 10:01:05 PM »
i just started nolvabecause of gyno anybody know of something else safer?on a other note whats a good recepter cleaner so i will get good results next time on thanks :)

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2010, 04:27:08 AM »
You didnt get good results? What brand of gear were you using?

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2010, 08:16:11 AM »
150mg test ew haha! If I was going to come off completely right now I would run clomid with aromasin.

I got the visual impairment w/clomid, really screwed up my vision.  Good news, it was temporary...I think.
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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2011, 04:54:52 PM »
Personally I would run 3 weeks clomid 25mg ed, and aromasin 25 6 weeks 25mg ed.

Is 50mg of clomid to much....I only have 50mg tabs and I heard 50mg a day is good for pct?

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Re: Todays nolvadex tomorrows poison
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2011, 05:05:21 PM »
I run 50mgs a day of clomid and 20mgs of nolva a day for 4 weeks