17-year-old gunman in Germany where guns are banned kill 15

[James]

This kills the argument that banning guns will stop the killings.

Wonder if the press will do its job and report that he, too, was on psychotropics.

http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=german+gunman


Strict German gun laws fail to prevent school shooting

Teenager gained access to gun despite living in country with some of the world's toughest firearm controls

    * Luke Harding
    * guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 11 March 2009 13.53 GMT
    * Article history

Germany will face pressure to re-evaluate its already tough gun laws in the wake of today's school shooting near Stuttgart, in which at least 16 people have died, including the teenage gunman.

The country already has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. Handguns are only on sale to those aged 18 or over, with heavier weapons restricted to those over 21. No weapon can be purchased legally without a firearms ownership licence, which is only available after personal checks.

None of this appears to have prevented a 17-year-old former pupil of Albertville school in Winnenden from going on the rampage. According to Spiegel online, the student's family kept some 18 different weapons at home. Germany's ZDF TV, quoting police sources, confirmed one of the father's weapons was missing.

This is not the first tragedy of its kind in Germany, which in recent years has seen several deadly encounters in its classrooms. In 2002 Germany's worst school massacre took place in the eastern city of Erfurt, when a disgruntled ex-pupil shot dead 17 people, including himself. In 2006 an 18-year-old pupil in the north-western town of Emsdetten injured 37 people, then killed himself.

The shootings prompted German MPs to tighten the country's already strong gun laws. In April 2008 a new amendment to Germany's Waffengesetz ,or gun regulation law, banned tasers and dummy guns, as well as several other weapons. Anyone deemed aggressive, unreliable or with criminal convictions cannot legally buy a gun in Germany.

Pro-gun groups argue that stricter legislation would not deter hardcore criminals from using weapons acquired illegally. But across Europe the gun lobby appears to be losing the argument. Finland – with more lax gun laws than Germany – has this week tightened its legislation, after two bloody school massacres in 2007 and 2008 left 20 people dead. Guns in Finland are now only sold to those aged over 20.

Attempts to introduce stricter legislation in Germany will be difficult. The country has a long-running love affair with hunting, which remains a popular sport, especially in Germany's conservative and rural Catholic south. In 2006 a brown bear wandered into Germany from Italy, the first time a bear had visited the country for 170 years. A group of hunters promptly shot it dead.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/11/germany-school-shooting-laws

[Soul Crusher]

This kills the argument that banning guns will stop the killings.

Wonder if the press will do its job and report that he, too, was on psychotropics.

http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=german+gunman


Strict German gun laws fail to prevent school shooting

Teenager gained access to gun despite living in country with some of the world's toughest firearm controls

    * Luke Harding
    * guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 11 March 2009 13.53 GMT
    * Article history

Germany will face pressure to re-evaluate its already tough gun laws in the wake of today's school shooting near Stuttgart, in which at least 16 people have died, including the teenage gunman.

The country already has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. Handguns are only on sale to those aged 18 or over, with heavier weapons restricted to those over 21. No weapon can be purchased legally without a firearms ownership licence, which is only available after personal checks.

None of this appears to have prevented a 17-year-old former pupil of Albertville school in Winnenden from going on the rampage. According to Spiegel online, the student's family kept some 18 different weapons at home. Germany's ZDF TV, quoting police sources, confirmed one of the father's weapons was missing.

This is not the first tragedy of its kind in Germany, which in recent years has seen several deadly encounters in its classrooms. In 2002 Germany's worst school massacre took place in the eastern city of Erfurt, when a disgruntled ex-pupil shot dead 17 people, including himself. In 2006 an 18-year-old pupil in the north-western town of Emsdetten injured 37 people, then killed himself.

The shootings prompted German MPs to tighten the country's already strong gun laws. In April 2008 a new amendment to Germany's Waffengesetz ,or gun regulation law, banned tasers and dummy guns, as well as several other weapons. Anyone deemed aggressive, unreliable or with criminal convictions cannot legally buy a gun in Germany.

Pro-gun groups argue that stricter legislation would not deter hardcore criminals from using weapons acquired illegally. But across Europe the gun lobby appears to be losing the argument. Finland – with more lax gun laws than Germany – has this week tightened its legislation, after two bloody school massacres in 2007 and 2008 left 20 people dead. Guns in Finland are now only sold to those aged over 20.

Attempts to introduce stricter legislation in Germany will be difficult. The country has a long-running love affair with hunting, which remains a popular sport, especially in Germany's conservative and rural Catholic south. In 2006 a brown bear wandered into Germany from Italy, the first time a bear had visited the country for 170 years. A group of hunters promptly shot it dead.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/11/germany-school-shooting-laws

________________________ ___________________

Here we go.  This and the alabama shooting is going to start is all over again. 

[240 is Back]

no religions in schools to teach right from wrong.

pumping kids full of antidepressants and other drugs

no armed people to stop this idiot. 

[Soul Crusher]

no religions in schools to teach right from wrong.

pumping kids full of antidepressants and other drugs

no armed people to stop this idiot. 

I dont think those points of view are going to be given too much credence in the emotional debate that is going to follow even though they make perfect sense. 

[James]

no religions in schools to teach right from wrong.

pumping kids full of antidepressants and other drugs

no armed people to stop this idiot

.

agree 100 %

[240 is Back]

Arm the teachers.  They have to wear it in a fanny pack, be trained with a rigorous course, re-certified every year, and if it ever comes out of its case, there is a major investigation (no showing it off/accidents).

problem solved.  One idiot starts shooting, and you have 5 or 10 or more well-trained armed responders on the scene (who know the kids much better than a SWAT team moving room to room pinning down everyone 2 hours later).

Lights out for the prick before he can reload the first mag, if he even gets that far.

[L00n]

too much Counter Strike. 

[Soul Crusher]

Arm the teachers.  They have to wear it in a fanny pack, be trained with a rigorous course, re-certified every year, and if it ever comes out of its case, there is a major investigation (no showing it off/accidents).

problem solved.  One idiot starts shooting, and you have 5 or 10 or more well-trained armed responders on the scene (who know the kids much better than a SWAT team moving room to room pinning down everyone 2 hours later).

Lights out for the prick before he can reload the first mag, if he even gets that far.

In a realistic world, I agree 1000%, however, the teachers themselves are mostly panzies, at least where I live and will never go for this.

[Eyeball Chambers]

no religions in schools to teach right from wrong.

pumping kids full of antidepressants and other drugs

no armed people to stop this idiot. 

Well said

[Soul Crusher]

Well said

This was just what Holder, Obama, and Sarah Brady have been hoping for.

[Eyeball Chambers]

This was just what Holder, Obama, and Sarah Brady have been hoping for.

What?

 

[tonymctones]

no religions in schools to teach right from wrong.

pumping kids full of antidepressants and other drugs

no armed people to stop this idiot.  

BINGO!!!

Arm the teachers.  They have to wear it in a fanny pack, be trained with a rigorous course, re-certified every year, and if it ever comes out of its case, there is a major investigation (no showing it off/accidents).

problem solved.  One idiot starts shooting, and you have 5 or 10 or more well-trained armed responders on the scene (who know the kids much better than a SWAT team moving room to room pinning down everyone 2 hours later).

Lights out for the prick before he can reload the first mag, if he even gets that far.

I agree that some employees should be armed but not all that takes away from the concealed aspect of carrying. If you know who has the gun who are you going to go after first?

[Soul Crusher]

What?

 

These three need a crisis to get their gun control agenda through, just like Rahmn emanuel said.  "Never let a crisis go to waste."  Think Waco, Ruby ridge, Columbine, etc

They proposed gun control a few weeks ago and everyone went nuts and they backed off.  That did not mean they are dropping the matter, just looking for the right time to pounce on an issue.

They need tragedies like this, like alabama,  to pursue their agenda.

  

  

[Eyeball Chambers]

These three need a crisis to get their gun control agenda through, just like Rahmn emanuel said.  "Never let a crisis go to waste."  Think Waco, Ruby ridge, Columbine, etc

They proposed gun control a few weeks ago and everyone went nuts and they backed off.  That did not mean they are dropping the matter, just looking for the right time to pounce on an issue.

They need tragedies like this, like alabama,  to pursue their agenda.

Oh yeah, but I think this tragedy in Germany is actually a good thing for Gun Control.

It shows everyone that it doesn't work.

[tonymctones]

These three need a crisis to get their gun control agenda through, just like Rahmn emanuel said.  "Never let a crisis go to waste."  Think Waco, Ruby ridge, Columbine, etc

They proposed gun control a few weeks ago and everyone went nuts and they backed off.  That did not mean they are dropping the matter, just looking for the right time to pounce on an issue.

They need tragedies like this, like alabama,  to pursue their agenda

EXACTLY just like they are using the current economic crises to pass all their spending bills

[240 is Back]

BINGO!!!
I agree that some employees should be armed but not all that takes away from the concealed aspect of carrying. If you know who has the gun who are you going to go after first?

they could wear inside-waistband just as easily.  personally, I see it as a deterrant.  if Johnny Doe decides to jump on the teacher for that fanny, you're going to have a teacher in a fetal position clinching it while the other kids will no doubt attempt to subdue johnny Doe, so the kid doesn't get hte gun and ice them.  Maybe make that procedure - if you ever see anyone trying to disarm a teacher - you HELP!

Concealing them works fine too.  Takes away the deterran factor, but definitely makes it a surprise, which has its perks too.  Maybe a nice mix

[Soul Crusher]

Oh yeah, but I think this tragedy in Germany is actually a good thing for Gun Control.

It shows everyone that it doesn't work.

That is not the message that gun control advocates take from this. 

[tonymctones]

they could wear inside-waistband just as easily.  personally, I see it as a deterrant.  if Johnny Doe decides to jump on the teacher for that fanny, you're going to have a teacher in a fetal position clinching it while the other kids will no doubt attempt to subdue johnny Doe, so the kid doesn't get hte gun and ice them.  Maybe make that procedure - if you ever see anyone trying to disarm a teacher - you HELP!

Concealing them works fine too.  Takes away the deterran factor, but definitely makes it a surprise, which has its perks too.  Maybe a nice mix

LOL did you just take that photo?

by concealing i meant not knowing who had guns not simply hiding the guns. Like i said if i was the kid and i knew all the teachers had guns the first person i would off would be the teacher in the room, wouldnt you? Its not knowing who is carrying that deters the most in my opinion.

[240 is Back]

LOL did you just take that photo?

by concealing i meant not knowing who had guns not simply hiding the guns. Like i said if i was the kid and i knew all the teachers had guns the first person i would off would be the teacher in the room, wouldnt you? Its not knowing who is carrying that deters the most in my opinion.

hahaha, nah it's page 2 of google image when you search for 'thunderwear'.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&q=thunderwear&start=20&sa=N&ndsp=20

I'd be fine with either, or even a nice mix of fannies and undercovers and anything else.  Plus they shouldn't have 1 cop at schools, sitting in the office all day doing paperwork.  Every school should have 2-3 guys who just roam around, stop in classrooms, etc.  it would create more jobs, and I think most voters would support a "3 cops in every school" amendment locally.

[Soul Crusher]

LOL did you just take that photo?

by concealing i meant not knowing who had guns not simply hiding the guns. Like i said if i was the kid and i knew all the teachers had guns the first person i would off would be the teacher in the room, wouldnt you? Its not knowing who is carrying that deters the most in my opinion.

That is why these cowards go for schools.  They know no one will be armed.

[tonymctones]

hahaha, nah it's page 2 of google image when you search for 'thunderwear'.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&q=thunderwear&start=20&sa=N&ndsp=20

I'd be fine with either, or even a nice mix of fannies and undercovers and anything else.  Plus they shouldn't have 1 cop at schools, sitting in the office all day doing paperwork.  Every school should have 2-3 guys who just roam around, stop in classrooms, etc.  it would create more jobs, and I think most voters would support a "3 cops in every school" amendment locally.

LOL the cop at my old HS used to sleep in the parking lot in his car, i would support 2 or 3 cops in school for sure, there is so much more then simply this that goes on in schools, gangs, drugs, its retarded.

[MB_722]

hahaha

for a second I thought your thumb was your nipple on the right. ahaha

[240 is Back]

LOL the cop at my old HS used to sleep in the parking lot in his car, i would support 2 or 3 cops in school for sure, there is so much more then simply this that goes on in schools, gangs, drugs, its retarded.

yeah, i taught for a few years, and you never saw them.  they showed up after fights to take reports.

I would have LOVED to have seen a uniformed police officer walk thru my classroom 2-3 times a day unscheduled, just to say hi, nod at the students, and be seen.

[tonymctones]

yeah, i taught for a few years, and you never saw them.  they showed up after fights to take reports.

I would have LOVED to have seen a uniformed police officer walk thru my classroom 2-3 times a day unscheduled, just to say hi, nod at the students, and be seen.

exactly i as a student would have felt alot safer seeing that as well

[SAMSON123]

This kills the argument that banning guns will stop the killings.

Wonder if the press will do its job and report that he, too, was on psychotropics.

http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=german+gunman


Strict German gun laws fail to prevent school shooting

Teenager gained access to gun despite living in country with some of the world's toughest firearm controls

    * Luke Harding
    * guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 11 March 2009 13.53 GMT
    * Article history

Germany will face pressure to re-evaluate its already tough gun laws in the wake of today's school shooting near Stuttgart, in which at least 16 people have died, including the teenage gunman.

The country already has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. Handguns are only on sale to those aged 18 or over, with heavier weapons restricted to those over 21. No weapon can be purchased legally without a firearms ownership licence, which is only available after personal checks.

None of this appears to have prevented a 17-year-old former pupil of Albertville school in Winnenden from going on the rampage. According to Spiegel online, the student's family kept some 18 different weapons at home. Germany's ZDF TV, quoting police sources, confirmed one of the father's weapons was missing.

This is not the first tragedy of its kind in Germany, which in recent years has seen several deadly encounters in its classrooms. In 2002 Germany's worst school massacre took place in the eastern city of Erfurt, when a disgruntled ex-pupil shot dead 17 people, including himself. In 2006 an 18-year-old pupil in the north-western town of Emsdetten injured 37 people, then killed himself.

The shootings prompted German MPs to tighten the country's already strong gun laws. In April 2008 a new amendment to Germany's Waffengesetz ,or gun regulation law, banned tasers and dummy guns, as well as several other weapons. Anyone deemed aggressive, unreliable or with criminal convictions cannot legally buy a gun in Germany.

Pro-gun groups argue that stricter legislation would not deter hardcore criminals from using weapons acquired illegally. But across Europe the gun lobby appears to be losing the argument. Finland – with more lax gun laws than Germany – has this week tightened its legislation, after two bloody school massacres in 2007 and 2008 left 20 people dead. Guns in Finland are now only sold to those aged over 20.

Attempts to introduce stricter legislation in Germany will be difficult. The country has a long-running love affair with hunting, which remains a popular sport, especially in Germany's conservative and rural Catholic south. In 2006 a brown bear wandered into Germany from Italy, the first time a bear had visited the country for 170 years. A group of hunters promptly shot it dead.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/11/germany-school-shooting-laws

These shooting are notoriously suspicious because people who are suicidal are never homicidal and those who are homicidal are never suicidal...

Ever since the Columbine cases there has been this rash of students going on rampages and after killing multiple people they (we are told) kill themselves. What then is the point of killing the people? Almost all of the cases of students or teens going ballistic are teens who are on anti-depressants and or under a psychologist care. Personally i don't see psychologist/psychiatrist as stable people at all and would NEVER trust kids to their care (or even adults for that matter) no matter what. In america the manipulation of ones mind has been a tactic of the military courtesy of the medical establishment for years. The hunt for candidates has been done as early as kindergarten right through college for students who are either exceptionally smart or possess a certain characteristic(s) that the government wishes to capitalize on in one way or another. I wonder what info about this young man can be found out. Like the Columbine students, jefferey Dahmer, and the Oklahoma City bombers...they were all under the care of psychiatrist and on anti-depressants. There is more to this than is being revealed...