Author Topic: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments  (Read 2551 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2009, 01:58:36 PM »
Roll your eyes all you want... You have no validation in your statement.

I guess it's possible that every single proposed law restricting abortion in any way has always been defeated at the ballot box, and that I just happened to miss all of those votes, but I doubt it. 

I tell you what, I will spend some time this weekend (if I remember) and support my statement:  "I would be more convinced if it was part of a trend in which every single proposed law restricting abortion in any way was defeated at the ballot box.  That hasn't happened."

tu_holmes

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2009, 02:27:13 PM »
I guess it's possible that every single proposed law restricting abortion in any way has always been defeated at the ballot box, and that I just happened to miss all of those votes, but I doubt it. 

I tell you what, I will spend some time this weekend (if I remember) and support my statement:  "I would be more convinced if it was part of a trend in which every single proposed law restricting abortion in any way was defeated at the ballot box.  That hasn't happened."


3 for 3 in 2008 isn't a trend?

You're just being difficult for the sake of difficulty.

Dos Equis

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2009, 02:37:39 PM »
3 for 3 in 2008 isn't a trend?

You're just being difficult for the sake of difficulty.

Not trying to be difficult at all.  I'll look into the history of abortion initiatives and post some stuff later. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2009, 12:47:00 AM »
Here is something that took me about a minute to find.  What's obvious, if you actually read it, is states have placed a plethora of restrictions on abortion, including banning abortion after viability.   


GUTTMACHER INSTITUTE
 
An Overview of Abortion Laws
STATE POLICIES IN BRIEF
As of 
MARCH 1, 2009
 
 
BACKGROUND:  Since the Supreme Court handed down its 1973 decisions in Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton, states
have constructed a lattice work of abortion law, codifying, regulating and limiting whether, when and under what
circumstances a woman may obtain an abortion.  The following table highlights the major provisions of these state laws. 
More detailed information can be found by selecting the table column headings in blue.  Except where noted, the laws
are in effect, although they may not always be enforced.
 
 
HIGHLIGHTS:
 Physician and Hospital Requirements: 38 states require an abortion to be performed by a licensed physician. 19
states require an abortion to be performed in a hospital after a specified point in the pregnancy, and 18 states require
the involvement of a second physician after a specified point.
 
Gestational Limits:  36 states prohibit abortions, generally except when necessary to protect the woman’s life or
health, after a specified point in pregnancy, most often fetal viability. 

 
“Partial-Birth” Abortion: 15 states have laws in effect that prohibit “partial-birth” abortion. 4 of these laws apply
only to postviability abortions.

 
 Public Funding:  17 states use their own funds to pay for all or most medically necessary abortions for Medicaid
enrollees in the state. 32 states and the District of Columbia prohibit the use of state funds except in those cases when
federal funds are available: where the woman’s life is in danger or the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest.  In
defiance of federal requirements, South Dakota limits funding to cases of life endangerment only.
 

 Coverage by Private Insurance:  4 states restrict coverage of abortion in private insurance plans to cases in which the
woman’s life would be endangered if the pregnancy were carried to term.
Additional abortion coverage is permitted
only if the woman purchases it at her own expense.
 
 Refusal:  46 states allow individual health care providers to refuse to participate in an abortion.  43 states allow
institutions to refuse to perform abortions, 16 of which limit refusal to private or religious institutions.

 
 State-Mandated Counseling:  17 states mandate that women be given counseling before an abortion that includes
information on at least one of the following: the purported link between abortion and breast cancer (6 states), the
ability of a fetus to feel pain (8 states), long-term mental health consequences for the woman (7 states) or
information on the availability of ultrasound (6 states).
 
 Waiting Periods:  24 states require a woman seeking an abortion to wait a specified period of time, usually 24 hours,
between when she receives counseling and the procedure is performed.  6 of these states have laws that effectively
require the woman make two separate trips to the clinic to obtain the procedure.
 
 Parental Involvement:  34 states require some type of parental involvement in a minor’s decision to have an abortion. 
22 states require one or both parents to consent to the procedure, while 10 require that one or both parents be notified
and 2 states require both parental consent and notification.

Dos Equis

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2009, 01:43:45 AM »
I also looked at the three bills/initiatives that failed in November:

California Prop 4:  parental notification
No - 6,111,260 - 52 percent
Yes - 5,599,878 - 48 percent

Colorado Amendment 48:  human life from moment of conception
No - 1,605,978 - 73 percent
Yes - 585,561 - 27 percent

South Dakota Initiative 11:  limit all abortions except for rape or health of mother
No - 206,488 - 55 percent
Yes - 167,536 - 45 percent

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/ballot.measures/

You cannot reasonably conclude that the California measure is part of a trend, when (a) it was narrowly defeated with well over 5 million people voting "yes" and (b) 34 states require some form of parental notification.  The trend is clearly in favor of parental notification. 

The Colorado amendment didn't attempt to ban or limit abortion, although that would have started the dominoes. 

South Dakota's initiative was narrowly defeated and was pretty broad. 

So, what I said is absolutely correct:    "I would be more convinced if it was part of a trend in which every single proposed law restricting abortion in any way was defeated at the ballot box.  That hasn't happened."

tu_holmes

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2009, 02:28:14 PM »
I also looked at the three bills/initiatives that failed in November:

California Prop 4:  parental notification
No - 6,111,260 - 52 percent
Yes - 5,599,878 - 48 percent

Colorado Amendment 48:  human life from moment of conception
No - 1,605,978 - 73 percent
Yes - 585,561 - 27 percent

South Dakota Initiative 11:  limit all abortions except for rape or health of mother
No - 206,488 - 55 percent
Yes - 167,536 - 45 percent

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/ballot.measures/

You cannot reasonably conclude that the California measure is part of a trend, when (a) it was narrowly defeated with well over 5 million people voting "yes" and (b) 34 states require some form of parental notification.  The trend is clearly in favor of parental notification. 

The Colorado amendment didn't attempt to ban or limit abortion, although that would have started the dominoes. 

South Dakota's initiative was narrowly defeated and was pretty broad. 

So, what I said is absolutely correct:    "I would be more convinced if it was part of a trend in which every single proposed law restricting abortion in any way was defeated at the ballot box.  That hasn't happened."

You are making excuses... This is a trend and people are done with the issue.

Well, most sane people... That would be people unlike yourself it seems.

For someone who runs that business, you certainly do have enough free time to research 2008 election results by the way.

Dos Equis

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2009, 04:18:54 PM »
You are making excuses... This is a trend and people are done with the issue.

Well, most sane people... That would be people unlike yourself it seems.

For someone who runs that business, you certainly do have enough free time to research 2008 election results by the way.

lol . . . I knew when I posted that information what your response was going to be.  Forget about the facts.  But I did it anyway because it helped educate me. 

Yes I had enough free time.  I make my own time.  Sorry that bothers you.   :'(  As my best friend says, don't hate the player, hate the game.   :)

tu_holmes

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2009, 12:21:41 PM »
lol . . . I knew when I posted that information what your response was going to be.  Forget about the facts.  But I did it anyway because it helped educate me. 

Yes I had enough free time.  I make my own time.  Sorry that bothers you.   :'(  As my best friend says, don't hate the player, hate the game.   :)

Believe me Beach... There's no one who hates you.

PS... It may be news to you, but you ain't no playa'.

;)

Straw Man

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2009, 12:55:58 PM »
Has anyone noticed the Steele gets shit on by his party whenever he accidently slips and talks like a rational human being?

Dos Equis

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2009, 03:51:22 PM »
Believe me Beach... There's no one who hates you.

PS... It may be news to you, but you ain't no playa'.

;)

True.   :)

Maybe true, maybe not.   :)

War-Horse

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2009, 05:21:15 PM »
Has anyone noticed the Steele gets shit on by his party whenever he accidently slips and talks like a rational human being?




They tend to "eat their own"...kinda like hyenias.   Theyre desperate for a leader but will crucify him in minutes..... 8)

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2009, 06:19:41 AM »
Has anyone noticed the Steele gets shit on by his party whenever he accidently slips and talks like a rational human being?

They prefer the ghetto lingo "hip hop" black man that he acted like when first elect?

So much for his "off the chain" style.

Straw Man

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2009, 09:34:36 AM »
They prefer the ghetto lingo "hip hop" black man that he acted like when first elect?

So much for his "off the chain" style.

They also prefer him to tow the party line but apparently Steele keeps forgetting the script.

When he goes off script and starts talking like a semi-rational human being the right wing peanut gallery goes apeshit and then Steele has to explain yet again how the words he said didn't really reflect what he truly believes, etc...


LurkerNoMore

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2009, 09:56:27 AM »
how the words he said didn't really reflect what he truly believes, etc...



Typical conservative double speak.  Commonly known as Footinmouthitis.

Kinda makes you wonder how anyone EVER believes a word that comes out of their mouths anyway.

Straw Man

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2009, 10:27:27 AM »
Typical conservative double speak.  Commonly known as Footinmouthitis.

Kinda makes you wonder how anyone EVER believes a word that comes out of their mouths anyway.

yeah it must make for an uncomfortable and confusing life when you never know if the words you're speaking actually reflect how you really feel...

More likely the words Steele was speaking did in fact reflect his true feeling and then he had to lie about it later

Isn't that how it appears in reality?

shootfighter1

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2009, 11:53:53 AM »
I have no problem with what Steele said.  The only ones talking about this now is the liberal leaning media and liberal democrats.

Straw Man

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2009, 01:26:40 PM »
I have no problem with what Steele said.  The only ones talking about this now is the liberal leaning media and liberal democrats.

if by "now" you mean this very second then maybe you're correct but this was a "story" because the conservatives where the ones bashing Steele.

I do admit it's entertaining to hear Steele continue to explain how he didn't know what he was saying, can't explain why he said it and how his own words really don't reflect what he believes. 

If he does it a few more times it will start to get old but for now it's entertaining

Parker

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2009, 01:30:22 PM »
Has anyone noticed the Steele gets shit on by his party whenever he accidently slips and talks like a rational human being?

Because they probably have seen how Obama has used Hip-Hop and popular culture to garner votes and the Presidency. While the Repub's were seen as out of date old fart's who'd rather pop Viagra than Pop-Lock. They had "The Man" written all over their faces. And they tried to use Steele to reinvigorate their party, but they disdain when he doesn't act or talk in the "box" format that they want.

  

shootfighter1

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2009, 02:12:01 PM »
Certainly, some republicans were outraged when it first came out but the liberals are the ones keeping it going (same thing happens on both sides).  To me this is old news.
Some right wingers are very "my way or the highway", just like the left wing liberals.  The party has to be more inclusive.

Straw Man

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Re: Steele faces more fallout over abortion comments
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2009, 06:30:28 PM »
Certainly, some republicans were outraged when it first came out but the liberals are the ones keeping it going (same thing happens on both sides).  To me this is old news.
Some right wingers are very "my way or the highway", just like the left wing liberals.  The party has to be more inclusive.

do you think the Repubs should compromise with the Dems?

what do the Repubs have to offer?

......they have nothing to offer that I can see, nothing to bargain with

They are inert

There has to be some reason to consider and possibly include their point of view