Author Topic: Venezuela's Chavez calls Obama "ignoramus"  (Read 8193 times)

loco

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Re: Venezuela's Chavez calls Obama "ignoramus"
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2009, 10:27:08 AM »
where on earth did you get that from?  It was on the news as it was happening as were the reasons that led up to it.

I just know, but you can verify it here, in English just for you:

El Caracazo Case, Judgment of November 11, 1999, Inter-Am. Ct. H.R. (Ser. C) No. 58 (1999).
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/iachr/C/58-ing.html

loco

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Re: Venezuela's Chavez calls Obama "ignoramus"
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2009, 10:28:42 AM »
HAHA!!!  I just realized, you must be talking about pinochet!  Wrong country loco...  There must be multiple users to the loco account.  The loco I talked with before would not have ever said I knew as much as you on Venezuela and never made the mistake of confusing pinochet's deeds with what happened in Venezuela.  And I have a hard time believing the loco I talked with before would have been unfamilar with CAP and Caracazo.  Who are you and what have you done with loco?

Read my post above.  What's the matter with you, Hugo?  Have you gone loco?    :)

Option D

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Re: Venezuela's Chavez calls Obama "ignoramus"
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2009, 10:35:41 AM »
I should go fuck Chavez up

loco

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Re: Venezuela's Chavez calls Obama "ignoramus"
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2009, 11:53:08 AM »
dude, that's judgement.  Has no bearing on what people knew at the time.  The entire episode was a tad hard to hide.  Sure details have come to light more recently but that's pretty irrelevant to the purpose of this conversation considering the scope of what happened and what was known then.  You can't just take later findings and dismiss the event as not known to people and Chavez then lol...  That's just patently false.  The conspirators of the coup named it as part of the reason: corruption, ongoing economic difficulties and social turmoil with the highlight being Caracazo.  They understood what led up to that and the reasons for insane inflation.  They understood the neoliberal ideology and CAPs IMF debacle were behind it.  They understood that he went against what he promised in that regard.  And they sure as hell understood they were being shot at and killed in large number right in the streets and in their homes.  It wasn't something that happened in secret loco.  That's what's making me question who the hell you are right now.

I and many others did not know what to believe until the results of the investigation were officially known.  All the killings and the mass graves are true, but as far as we knew at the time, Chavez and his people in the military could have killed those civilians and blamed CAP to gain support for this coup.

I already told you.  I do not believe everything the media says anymore, on either side.  I am not from Caracas, which is where Caracazo took place, though I have been there and used to have lots of family there.  They have moved out since the 80s for obvious reasons.  I'm not telling you which city I'm from, but it's not too far from Caracas.  So I am not "in the know" about Caracazo.  I got my info. same as you did, from the media and word of mouth, none of which can be trusted.  Caracas is not Venezuela.  Caracas is a city in Venezuela, and the Capital of Venezuela.  I know you know this, but from your posts you seem to think that because I'm Venezuelan, I must know everything about anything that happens in Caracas.

Caracazo is not just the killings and mass graves.  Caracazo is the name given to the series of riots and political instability triggered by the economic crisis.  Most of the people rioting did not understand all the details that you mentioned.  You are giving them too much credit.  They were just angry, with good reason, about the massive inflation.

The police and the military were sent to break up the riots.  People on the streets had guns, but the police and military had more and bigger guns, and they got carried away big time with the use of force against armed civilians.  Police officers and soldiers were shot and killed too, by civilians, but I do not defend them.  All responsible should go to prison.  Think Katrina and New Orleans and you've got a small scale Caracazo...Nuevo Orleanazo.

In early interviews after the coup, Chavez did not mention the killings and the mass graves as reasons for the coup.  He did not start mentioning the killings and the mass graves until later interviews.  He was asked in one interview if Rafael Caldera, the guy who was president after CAP and also the one who pardoned Chavez, deserved to be overthrown too.  Chavez almost said yes, but didn't after a long pause because Caldera was the current president at the time and the one who had just pardoned him and gotten him out of prison.  Still, Chavez accused Caldera of corruption and undeserving of the presidency.

Chavez is still not one to complain about people wanting to rise up and overthrow him.