Cigarette taxes will be tripled this week

[Soul Crusher]

My guess is that the US taxes are lower now than they were during the golden era of the 50's and the 60's.
I sure know they are lower over here anyway.
One problem is that politicians - like Obama - try to win elections by promising that they will introduce tax cuts.
That's the main reason why USA is in deep problems today IMHO.
A culture where politicians can't get reelected unless they either deliver a big tax cut or a big government funded program.
It's a spiral to economic disaster.
You need leaders who will have guts to refuse to stoop to these populist tendencies.
Everything has to be paid for.
That's the bottom line.
So perhaps the one thing I think Obama has really gotten right was when he actually included the Iraq war in the budget.
Absurd how that was previously left out.     

Nonsense.  We pay massive taxes now in other ways. 

[shootfighter1]

I would guess you are incorrect about taxes in the 50s.  We have so many taxes and regulatory fees these days and so many different taxes both disclosed and not disclosed (they bake a lot of taxes into things that everyday people don't even see).

Gov officials have failed to reduce spending and under Bush 2 and Obama we are seeing more spending as a percentage of GDP, that is scary and wrong.  We are the only ones that can reign in government because once most officials get in (outside of people like Ron Paul) they want more of our money so they can do more things.

[shootfighter1]

Hedge, you are not seeing the big picture.  Of course I'd like people to quit smoking, I spend part of my day counseling patients on quitting but giving big gov the power to isolate certain behaviors in private industry and in the public arena and levy heavy disproportional taxation upon them limits our freedoms.  It also puts them in charge of what is acceptible and not acceptible.  I do not trust the government to do this.  Government cannot make better decisions for me and my family than we can make ourselves.

Have you ever worked in a giant system and see how inefficient things can be?  How things become black & white when in reality things are many shades between.

Again, if many people quit and tax revenues go down, they will find other things to tax.  The only way to limit taxation is to limit gov spending and the power of gov.  You and I will always disagree because we look at gov and taxation differently.  I want gov to regulate, guarantee our freedoms and opportunities for all, keep us safe and perform necessary functions.  You see government as a way to control distribution of goods & services, enforce what they feel is 'fair', interfere in the private sectors and create more dependence programs (which propogates large gov/socialistic policies).

[grab an umbrella]

The problem with hedgehog's thinking is pretty clear.  He sees cigarettes as something bad(as we all do, and I'm a smoker) and he thinks the government should put an end to it.  Well there are two fundamental problems here

1.  It's not the governments responsibility to be looking out for my personal health
It sounds great in theory, but I'm engaging in behavior that is damaging to me, and I think its okay.  The government should kindly fuck off.

2.  If they raise taxes on cigarettes, where do they stop?
It happens like clockwork in this country.  We start taxing/regulating something which sounds great and then five years later the government has gone way too far.  If we start taxing cigarettes it will lead to taxing of sweets/sodas/etc, which is unacceptable.  The government tries to control behavior via certain regulations/taxes.  We need to tell the government to mind their own business.

Hedge, you are not seeing the big picture.  Of course I'd like people to quit smoking, I spend part of my day counseling patients on quitting but giving big gov the power to isolate certain behaviors in private industry and in the public arena and levy heavy disproportional taxation upon them limits our freedoms.  It also puts them in charge of what is acceptible and not acceptible.  I do not trust the government to do this.  Government cannot make better decisions for me and my family than we can make ourselves.

Have you ever worked in a giant system and see how inefficient things can be?  How things become black & white when in reality things are many shades between.

Again, if many people quit and tax revenues go down, they will find other things to tax.  The only way to limit taxation is to limit gov spending and the power of gov.  You and I will always disagree because we look at gov and taxation differently.  I want gov to regulate, guarantee our freedoms and opportunities for all, keep us safe and perform necessary functions.  You see government as a way to control distribution of goods & services, enforce what they feel is 'fair', interfere in the private sectors and create more dependence programs (which propogates large gov/socialistic policies).

[Bindare_Dundat]

Hedge, you are not seeing the big picture.  Of course I'd like people to quit smoking, I spend part of my day counseling patients on quitting but giving big gov the power to isolate certain behaviors in private industry and in the public arena and levy heavy disproportional taxation upon them limits our freedoms.  It also puts them in charge of what is acceptible and not acceptible.  I do not trust the government to do this.  Government cannot make better decisions for me and my family than we can make ourselves.

Have you ever worked in a giant system and see how inefficient things can be?  How things become black & white when in reality things are many shades between.

Again, if many people quit and tax revenues go down, they will find other things to tax.  The only way to limit taxation is to limit gov spending and the power of gov.  You and I will always disagree because we look at gov and taxation differently.  I want gov to regulate, guarantee our freedoms and opportunities for all, keep us safe and perform necessary functions.  You see government as a way to control distribution of goods & services, enforce what they feel is 'fair', interfere in the private sectors and create more dependence programs (which propogates large gov/socialistic policies).

Nice.

[George Whorewell]

I smoke very very rarely and I personally can't stand the smell of that shit unless I'm totally dead drunk. But I don't want people to stop smoking. It's their business, cigarettes are legal and it is every human beings right to destroy their health in any way they see fit. If it makes them happy,let them smoke. Fuck the government and their regulations.

Next I wont be able to stare at my computer screen for too long because the government says my eyes will be damaged. After that, I can't eat fast food, drink beer, watch porn, see violent movies or use four letter words because those things aren't good for me either. I for one, don't trust a room full of convicted felons, sexual deviants, bible thumpers, atheists, socialists, robber Barron, hair piece wearing, plastic surgery having scumbags to tell me what I should or shouldn't put in my body.

[shootfighter1]

Good reply 'grab an umbrella'.  I know Hedge started with a positive thought (stopping harmful smoking) but where does it stop and who is the gov to say what is bad for us on a large scale?  Then the question is what's next and who decides.  Thats not a road I want to go down.  Honestly, if Obama wasn't president and the same policies were being pushed, I think they would be much less popular.  People need to separate their admiration and love for Obama from the policies that are being enacted and proposed.