Socialism - Good on Paper, Not in Reality...

[nodeal]

I have to wonder political party Jesus would join.


Dems: Anti-war.  All about helping the poor.  Welfare - Jesus did give a whole lotta bread and fish to the hungry.

Repubs: Start pre-emptive wars and 'acquire' another nations resources.  Jesus didn't steal.

once jesus heard those people were trading in the fish and bread for drugs, he stopped giving it to them immediately. google it.

[The Coach]

Considering socialism doesn't work...................

[240 is Back]

Considering socialism doesn't work...................

bailing out the banks was socialism.

without it, however, AIG and citi and others would have failed.  We'd all be fvcked at the momement - retirement savings would have disappeared, and lots of other messy stuff.

So yes, the banking bailout (socialism) worked in that it kept our $ system from falling apart.

[nodeal]

bailing out the banks was socialism.

without it, however, AIG and citi and others would have failed.  We'd all be fvcked at the momement - retirement savings would have disappeared, and lots of other messy stuff.

So yes, the banking bailout (socialism) worked in that it kept our $ system from falling apart.

national debt, borrowing money, and printing tons of it out of thin air is a big contributor to our declining economy...so borrowing more money, printing more out of thin air, and therefore increasing the overall national debt is NOT the answer.

[The Coach]

bailing out the banks was socialism.

without it, however, AIG and citi and others would have failed.  We'd all be fvcked at the momement - retirement savings would have disappeared, and lots of other messy stuff.

So yes, the banking bailout (socialism) worked in that it kept our $ system from falling apart.

........and like Europe, it won't work in the long run. IT'S A TEMPORARY FIX!!!! It's like taking a cortisone shot in the hamstring, it feels great until you run on it then all of the sudden...RIIIIIIIIIIIP, it tears and isn't worth a shit.

[The Coach]

national debt, borrowing money, and printing tons of it out of thin air is a big contributor to our declining economy...so borrowing more money, printing more out of thin air, and therefore increasing the overall national debt is NOT the answer.

Like Obama, I don't really think 240 understands business. You create debt to get out of debt.

[240 is Back]

national debt, borrowing money, and printing tons of it out of thin air is a big contributor to our declining economy...so borrowing more money, printing more out of thin air, and therefore increasing the overall national debt is NOT the answer.

correct.

but we needed SOMETHING to stop the unemployment/lack of consumer spending spiral we were on.

the stimulus package did that.  it watered down money, but created 4 million jobs.  Plus it stabilized the banks, stopped the runs, and restored confidence.  Plus the dow has been up 4 weeks since the stim package was signed, now over 8000 points.

Europe is sitll 6 months behind us - meaning they'll feel the brunt shortly - but it looks like obama's plan may just work.  Yes, it watered down money by printing extra, but it stopped the freaking bleeding.  Should we do a stim package every year?  of course not.  Did we need one this time?  yeah, we did.


Besides - remember that Clinton inherited a big recession in 92 from Bush 1.  he did his own major spending/stim package.  And it worked.  A year later, employment was thru the roof.  Clinton (who I personally dislike, i admit) was able to grow the DOW from 3000 to 10,000 during his term.  Bush 2 took it from 10,000 back down to 8000 when he left.

So yeah, sometimes ya gotta spend a bit to restore confidence, get ppl working and spending again.

[240 is Back]

........and like Europe, it won't work in the long run. IT'S A TEMPORARY FIX!!!! It's like taking a cortisone shot in the hamstring, it feels great until you run on it then all of the sudden...RIIIIIIIIIIIP, it tears and isn't worth a shit.

Yes.  Something had to put these ppl to work.  To get them spending again.  To freeze and remove those toxic assets that were sucking down the insurance and finance giants.

Today,
4 million ppl are getting jobs.
4 million people are spending again.
A lot of the bad mortgages are gone now.

Joe, you can say I don't understand business, but the following men - Bush, Obama, Mccain, Geitner, Bernake, Greenspan - they all do.  And they all said we needed this bill to stop the bleeding.

I dont like corporate welfare any more than you do - but i understand our country needed it to stop the bleeding and remove the poisons of plummeting dollar value, bad assets, and spiking unemployment.

[240 is Back]

........and like Europe, it won't work in the long run. IT'S A TEMPORARY FIX!!!!

Reagan used socialism when he created the earned income credit (EIC).  Welfare for every parent in america making small money.

Was reagan a socialist, joe?

[The Coach]

correct.

but we needed SOMETHING to stop the unemployment/lack of consumer spending spiral we were on.

the stimulus package did that.  it watered down money, but created 4 million jobs.  Plus it stabilized the banks, stopped the runs, and restored confidence.  Plus the dow has been up 4 weeks since the stim package was signed, now over 8000 points.

Europe is sitll 6 months behind us - meaning they'll feel the brunt shortly - but it looks like obama's plan may just work.  Yes, it watered down money by printing extra, but it stopped the freaking bleeding.  Should we do a stim package every year?  of course not.  Did we need one this time?  yeah, we did.


Besides - remember that Clinton inherited a big recession in 92 from Bush 1.  he did his own major spending/stim package.  And it worked.  A year later, employment was thru the roof.  Clinton (who I personally dislike, i admit) was able to grow the DOW from 3000 to 10,000 during his term.  Bush 2 took it from 10,000 back down to 8000 when he left.

So yeah, sometimes ya gotta spend a bit to restore confidence, get ppl working and spending again.

Nothing should have been done, it should have ran it's CYCLE, private companies should have filed BK. Freddie and Fanny (where it all started) should have went under.

[240 is Back]

Nothing should have been done, it should have ran it's CYCLE, private companies should have filed BK. Freddie and Fanny (where it all started) should have went under.

joe-

If AIG went under, most major banks who were insured thru them would have gone under too.

The repercussions... we can't even begin to imagine them.  We're talking major structural damage to society.  How pissed would you be if you lost your life savings?  You'd have a lot of nuts taking to the streets looting and killing.  Yes, ya would.

Banks can't fail.  You can't let them.

Letting AIG fail would mean most banks fail.  it's the biggest insurer.  And then you'd have secondary failures of thousands of other firms.  I don't think you understand all the effects.  When you say "It should have went under", you're really saying "we should have let our american financial system collapse".

[The Coach]

Reagan used socialism when he created the earned income credit (EIC).  Welfare for every parent in america making small money.

Was reagan a socialist, joe?

Before I answer this, I'll research this. knowing you I have a feeling this isn't socialism like you would like it to be!

Rob, in the years that I've known you, you have gone from Republican, to democrat, to liberal to what appears now as socialist. It's disappointing and disturbing.

[240 is Back]

Ron, in the years that I've known you, you have gone from Republican, to democrat, to liberal to what appears now as socialist. It's disappointing and disturbing.

i'm no socialist.  However, I agree with the majority of economists and finance experts worldwide who believe letting AIG fail would have led to a collapse of the finance industry, end of confidence, end of dollar and worse.

Joe, if 300 million people lose all their money, they're gonna riot.  We don't want that.  We don't want packs of hungry armed pricks roaming thru our neighborhoods, do we?

I'm an American.  I love my guns.  I am against welfare for most people.  I'm all for the death penalty.  I think drunk drivers should be kneecapped on the spot.  I have voted repub and libertarian my whole life.  You were a clinton voter in 92.  I have never voted dem. 

You call me a socialist because I understand the raminifications upon society of "money dying".  Joe, what do you do if your local grocery store isn't there anymore?  You die of starvation.   Or, you kill other people with food.  neither prospect interests me.  I'd prefer our economic system stay afloat. 

If wanting to live in a society with a working money makes me a 'socialist', that is your belief.  I have an MBA and understand politics.  I also understand the bailout was needed to save the US economy and society.  You say "let it fail" like it's that simple.  it's not.

[nodeal]

correct.

but we needed SOMETHING to stop the unemployment/lack of consumer spending spiral we were on.

the stimulus package did that.  it watered down money, but created 4 million jobs.  Plus it stabilized the banks, stopped the runs, and restored confidence.  Plus the dow has been up 4 weeks since the stim package was signed, now over 8000 points.

Europe is sitll 6 months behind us - meaning they'll feel the brunt shortly - but it looks like obama's plan may just work.  Yes, it watered down money by printing extra, but it stopped the freaking bleeding.  Should we do a stim package every year?  of course not.  Did we need one this time?  yeah, we did.


Besides - remember that Clinton inherited a big recession in 92 from Bush 1.  he did his own major spending/stim package.  And it worked.  A year later, employment was thru the roof.  Clinton (who I personally dislike, i admit) was able to grow the DOW from 3000 to 10,000 during his term.  Bush 2 took it from 10,000 back down to 8000 when he left.

So yeah, sometimes ya gotta spend a bit to restore confidence, get ppl working and spending again.

i just hate how the word "crisis" is used repeatedly as an excuse to recklessly (i truly believe it is reckless) spend money. im weary of using fear to push an agenda. if this spending is restoring confidence in anybody, than it is restored in the minds of uninformed people. in order to feel soothed by these stimulus packages, you must be ignorant to a certain extent.

is it reasonable to say that part of the reason we are in such a horrible situation today is because of the spending of former president's (like clinton) that offered "temporary relief"? if pumping fresh money into the economy was the real solution, would we have an economic problem today?

when your economy is in a shithole, you can't expect to fix it with patches of borrowed money...it makes things progressively worse.

[240 is Back]

when your economy is in a shithole, you can't expect to fix it with patches of borrowed money...it makes things progressively worse.

If the economy is in a shithole because of shattered confidence and spiraling unemployment, then a band-aid can work.

You don't do it every year.  You do it once very 10 or 30 years, when you really need it.

I'm sure all of us has been in a jam before, where you're gonna lose your house, car, etc, but then someone lends you some $, you get thru the tough times, and then you rebuild.  it's like that.  Yes, it's socialism, but it's also called "giving the domestic economy a boost".

Joe wasn't crying about socialism when Exxon and the oil companies got tax breaks and federal money - all while scoring the biggest profits in the history of mankind.  That was some kinda handout.  They were getting federal subsidies/$.   If some poor elementary school in NYC asks for $100k for teachers, that's socialism.  If Mr. CEO asks for $150 million in tax cuts, that's capitalism.  Uh...

[LatsMcGee]

It's a sticky situation for a stud like Obama to inherit.

[240 is Back]

Simple Q, joe.

If (as most experts agree) the bailout saves the american finance system, should we do it.

yes or no?

if bailout saves the dollar, your life savings, and our society, should we bail out?  Or should we refuse, let things collapse, and sit around in mud huts without electricity talking about how we did the right thing and took a stand against socialism?


So would you support a bailout if it meant keeping your home, your way of life? (the answer of course, is yes)

[nodeal]

If the economy is in a shithole because of shattered confidence and spiraling unemployment, then a band-aid can work.

you may think it works until you realize that the application of these "band aids" (whether it be from borrowing, printing, or over spending - gotta come from one of the three) over the past years is part of the problem. some would even say it is THE problem.

i dont care if its called socialism or capitalism, all just words to me. i care about the policies being implemented by those who are supposed to be in charge... and im not trying to put all the blame on democrats (though sometimes i prefer it that way  ). i think it is both dems and repubs in power that are not adhering to a plan that is in favor of a long-lasting, strong economy.

[theworm]

all this democrat bullshit is enough.

Just don;t use MY money for this shit... most democrats in office are not even paying TAXES...(about 4 busted in the news in the past 2 months)

the solution is simple:

Everyone who believes in socialism/communism/hugging trees/Obamaism, just donate 80% or YOUR income to the "cause,"  just don't take MY money.  End of story.

the dems always want to spend, spend, spend.... as long as it is not THEIR money.

[The True Adonis]

Eugene V. Debs is my personal hero.

I have many others as well.


Just a small note to Coach:

You know the very pledge of allegiance, that you hold so dear to your and your Republican hearts....You know, the one that produces a little tear in the eye everytime your kind utter it.....Well it was written by a famous Socialist.  His cousin, Edward Bellamy, was also a very famous Socialist with a great book, called Looking Backwards.  Look into it.

[Deicide]

i'm no socialist.  However, I agree with the majority of economists and finance experts worldwide who believe letting AIG fail would have led to a collapse of the finance industry, end of confidence, end of dollar and worse.

Joe, if 300 million people lose all their money, they're gonna riot.  We don't want that.  We don't want packs of hungry armed pricks roaming thru our neighborhoods, do we?

I'm an American.  I love my guns.  I am against welfare for most people.  I'm all for the death penalty.  I think drunk drivers should be kneecapped on the spot.  I have voted repub and libertarian my whole life.  You were a clinton voter in 92.  I have never voted dem. 

You call me a socialist because I understand the raminifications upon society of "money dying".  Joe, what do you do if your local grocery store isn't there anymore?  You die of starvation.   Or, you kill other people with food.  neither prospect interests me.  I'd prefer our economic system stay afloat. 

If wanting to live in a society with a working money makes me a 'socialist', that is your belief.  I have an MBA and understand politics.  I also understand the bailout was needed to save the US economy and society.  You say "let it fail" like it's that simple.  it's not.

You are the man Rob, THE FUCKING MAN, YOU HEAR ME, THE FUCKING MAN!

[The True Adonis]

I am a socialist.

[theworm]

TA and 240, go hug some fucking trees hippies...


If Obama said he was going to take 80% of your paycheck and give it to Lakisha with 9 kids at the age of 23, I bet you would change your views in a matter of minutes...

[theworm]

TA and 240:  getbig's resident communists.

[The True Adonis]

TA and 240:  getbig's resident communists.

No. I am a Socialist. Not a Communist. A gigantic and stark difference.  Perhaps you are too dim to realize the fact of this reality.