Author Topic: Obama passes first test with flying colors  (Read 3061 times)

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2009, 12:26:25 PM »
President Obama did not actually order a rescue attempt, he merely reaffirmed the standing authority on scene commanders had to act if lives were in imminent danger. Jonah Goldberg makes the fair point that Obama is Commander in Chief and this happened on his watch, so he should gain congratulations just as he would have been blamed had it gone poorly. I have no problem with that my beef was with the news agencies i.e. Obama cheerleaders who were spinning the event as a decisive action by the President. It wasn't. There were also reports that the President gave orders for a rescue if an opportunity presented itself, that does not appear to be true and it would have been a significant escalation from merely confirming standing orders allowing force if a death appeared imminent.

The legal standard for the use of deadly force is a legitimate fear for your life or the lives of others. That same standard is infused into all military rules of engagement (ROE) I have seen. The commander of the Bainbridge had the authority to kill the pirates at any time he felt the lives of US citizens were in imminent danger. What President Obama did was to confirm that authority. There is some question as to whether his initial orders restricted the ability of the military to intervene while the negotiations were going on. This comes from the fact that no action was taken when Phillips jumped off the lifeboat and attempted to escape. It is unknown whether there were actually restrictions placed.

The vessels in the task force were expected to be stopping piracy so their ROE would certainly have addressed the contingency of an imminent threat to US citizens and their authorization to use deadly force to prevent deaths. It is ridiculous to assume that they needed President Obama to actively affirm that before acting. Imagine a scenario where they come upon a hijacking attempt in progress and the pirates point an AK at the captain of the ship. Would we really expect them to wait and dial the phone?

Hello White House, this is Commander Smith in the Gulf of Aden can I speak to President Obama?......Yes Ma'am I realize it's 3 am....Oh hello Mrs. Obama is the President around? We have kind of an urgent situation here.....Oh, he's walking the puppy. Well could you get a message to him, we need permission to........BAKOW! Oh crap Ma'am, they shot him, never mind.


Ludicrous, I know and precisely why ROE anticipate those situations and give authority to commanders on scene. When it became a national crisis the President can review and potentially change the ROE based on what he wants to happen. If a determination is made to pursue negotiations then tighter restrictions on the local commander's authority to use deadly force could be applied. He also could have done what some reported and authorized a rescue if an opportunity presented itself. It looks like the only step he took was to allow the normal authorization for deadly force to stand, essentially doing nothing.

This is in no way reflects badly on the President. The pirates had little history of using violence against hostages and any rescue attempt is inherently difficult and dangerous. It was fortunate that the on scene commander and shooters were on the ball and on target. The reports say the pirates either fired shots on the lifeboat or appeared to be about to execute the hostage. That is certainly worth considering when thinking about negotiating in any future incidents.


L

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2009, 12:28:57 PM »
The AP is reporting that President Obama gave the order to use military force to rescue the hostage, that is misleading.


WASHINGTON (AP)—Administration officials say President Barack Obama approved the military operation that rescued a U.S. captain held hostage by Somali pirates.

The officials say Obama ordered the Defense Department to use military resources to rescue Richard Phillips from a lifeboat off the Somali coast.


He did affirm the military's authorization to use force if the captain's life was in danger, but they already would have had that authorization as part of their standard rules of engagement. If there are innocents about to be slaughtered the same reasoning that authorizes self defense also covers an imminent execution unless the ROE specifically forbid it.The AP is making it sound like there was an active rescue ordered by the President. It was not, there was an imminent threat and the local commander gave the order to fire. Good on Obama for ensuring their authorization was clear, but let's also be clear that he did not authorize or order an active rescue attempt.

L

Hedgehog

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2009, 12:30:08 PM »
LOL @ the bitching over a happy ending.
As empty as paradise

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2009, 12:31:28 PM »
LOL @ the bitching over a happy ending.

I dont think any guy can bitch over a "happy ending" as I know the word.  :) :)

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2009, 12:42:06 PM »
No...just making sure Barry doesn't end up with a Navy Cross. Regardless who is president..they need to go after a few of the pirate bases and end the threat. Further, make negociating with them punishable under US law, if ur a US ship. This would undermine any steps taken by the government. Then leave it up to the PMC's to deal with the rest. Perfect place to let them do what they do.
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LurkerNoMore

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2009, 12:43:21 PM »
LOL @ the bitching over a happy ending.

+1

Obama turns them to tears no matter what he does.  Sucks for them.

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2009, 12:45:05 PM »
I cry everyday knowing we have half a fag running this country.....but atleast he decided on a dog.
L

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2009, 12:48:01 PM »
+1

Obama turns them to tears no matter what he does.  Sucks for them.

All guys agree that a "happy ending" is a good thing.

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2009, 12:49:23 PM »
Dead dirtbags make everybody happy.......there is a rumor they can try that kid in Kenya. Best possible outcome.
L

Hedgehog

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2009, 01:49:26 PM »
I cry everyday knowing we have half a fag running this country.....but atleast he decided on a dog.
What makes you think Obama is 'half a fag'?
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Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2009, 02:08:53 PM »
If this situation had turned out the opposite way would Obama be to blame?  ???
S

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2009, 02:27:46 PM »
It remains to be seen.....Barry moved because he was fortunate to have the captain jump again and the SEALS were there plus the French were able to get their own people back on Friday. It would have near impossible to storm that lifeboat had the captain not jumped. This can't be some bs NATO deal....we're there to kill people ONLY. Barry cannot bow down to the friggen State Department who will want some kind of wussy rice drop or other crap. I'm sure there are NGO's assisting the government there and USAID might be there as well. Bush assisted the Somali gov, militarily with SOF troops and other mil aid. We can't be in the break and fix business, especially here.

actually HH6-

FOX reported this morning that the captain did NOT jump.

They had heads of 2 visible when the 3rd one was showing through a window and they realized they could kill all 3. 

I dont know which version is accurate - but they reported today that the captain never jumped after all.

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2009, 02:39:14 PM »
I'm going from the Navy version of events. I also have seen where it was Marines, not SEALS.
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LurkerNoMore

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2009, 07:10:56 PM »
The nitpicking for Obama bashing material continues....    ::)

Straw Man

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2009, 08:37:40 PM »
I wasnt aware he was a US citizen? iono not my concern my concern is the US with the biggest prison population in the world now taking on other countries shit heads, hows that sound for you?

actually maybe this isnt a bad thing if we do start importing dip shits to our jails we can finally say stfu to those lefties yelling about overcrowded jails.

I have no clue of maritime law

the surving pirate is clearly a criminal by most standards, (and probably thanking Allah tonight that he was stabbed in the hand and not on the boat) and if Bush were in charge we could just call him a terrorist or enemy combatant or make up some other new classification

240 is Back

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2009, 08:39:14 PM »
obama's probably going to turn him over to kenya and let him get 20 years in a kenyan prison.

I have never been to a kenyan prison, but i'm guessing it's quite the shitty place to visit.

tonymctones

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2009, 09:57:17 PM »
I have no clue of maritime law

the surving pirate is clearly a criminal by most standards, (and probably thanking Allah tonight that he was stabbed in the hand and not on the boat) and if Bush were in charge we could just call him a terrorist or enemy combatant or make up some other new classification
LOL whats in a name? barry treats them the same way but you think b/c he decommisioned terrorist or enemy combatant that its ok?

obama's probably going to turn him over to kenya and let him get 20 years in a kenyan prison.

I have never been to a kenyan prison, but i'm guessing it's quite the shitty place to visit.
yea i cant imagine that being a happy place.

big L dawg

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2009, 10:09:32 PM »
I cry everyday knowing we have half a fag running this country.....but atleast he decided on a dog.

Idiot U are.
DAWG

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2009, 10:11:54 PM »
LOL whats in a name? barry treats them the same way but you think b/c he decommisioned terrorist or enemy combatant that its ok?

no I don't think it's ok and I don't have a clue what will happen in this case

I'm sure we'll all know soon enough

mogulgangi

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Re: Obama passes first test with flying colors
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2009, 07:56:46 PM »
LETS ALL PRAISE OBAMA...YES!!!! ALL HAIL OBAMA!!!! WHAT AN AMAZING CALL ...CALLIN IN NAVY SEALS TO RESCUE THE CAPTAIN!!!!!...


"president obama, we need to help the captain"

"your right what should we do"

..."well since they are at sea, and they are captive, the only option we have is seals, because it is the only branch of the goverment that works on situaation in the sea, the navy, and the only thing the navy has other than ships, missiles(which would kill the captain), and planes(which would kill the capitan) is mean for situations around the water..."


...."ohh...shit,...well lets get some seals"

...im on it sir"


a couple days later...

CNN: OBAMA IS GOD...MAKES GREAT MOVE TO CALL IN NAVY SEALS