Author Topic: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!  (Read 7105 times)

The True Adonis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 50229
  • Fear is proof of a degenerate mind.
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2009, 03:06:32 PM »
you posted while I was writing my post.

But more to your point.

The precursor the modern income tax was passed in 1861.
The modern income tax act was passed in 1913.

This is my first post in this topic
Seems that what I posted is exactly what I have been saying.
I guess you failed to read this part which appears in your article.  :-\


The Act of 1862 established the office of Commissioner of Internal Revenue. The Commissioner was given the power to assess, levy, and collect taxes, and the right to enforce the tax laws through seizure of property and income and through prosecution. The powers and authority remain very much the same today.

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31865
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2009, 03:06:46 PM »
you posted while I was writing my post.

But more to your point.

The precursor the modern income tax was passed in 1861.
The modern income tax act was passed in 1913.
NOT THE POINT

This is my first post in this topic
Seems that what I posted is exactly what I have been saying.
no, you completely missed the point, flew a mile over your head.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102387
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2009, 03:07:43 PM »
TA is a one-man wrecking machine around here!

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41756
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2009, 03:10:43 PM »
TA is a one-man wrecking machine around here!

This is a silly argument.  Both are right on this.  The modern income tax was started in the 1900.s 

The one he is talking about was different and was even struck down in the 1890's.

The one we have today has been on the books since 1913 or so.   

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31865
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2009, 03:15:12 PM »
This is a silly argument.  Both are right on this.  The modern income tax was started in the 1900.s 

The one he is talking about was different and was even struck down in the 1890's.

The one we have today has been on the books since 1913 or so.   
the point was on principle, not on which income tax we have now.  They were both income taxes.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41756
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2009, 03:17:25 PM »
the point was on principle, not on which income tax we have now.  They were both income taxes.

I think when most people, accountants, lawyers, etc think about the income tax, they think of the one we have today which was codified in the 16th amendment in 1913, not a civil war income tax that was overturned in 1894. 

Of course TA is correct that there was an income tax during that period, but it was brief and overturned, and nothing like what we have today in either scope, range, amount, or percentage of income being taxed.

a_joker10

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1922
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2009, 03:21:30 PM »
I guess you failed to read this part which appears in your article.  :-\


The Act of 1862 established the office of Commissioner of Internal Revenue. The Commissioner was given the power to assess, levy, and collect taxes, and the right to enforce the tax laws through seizure of property and income and through prosecution. The powers and authority remain very much the same today.

We are also not arguing about the Commissioner of Internal Revenue

This is a silly argument.  Both are right on this.  The modern income tax was started in the 1900.s 

The one he is talking about was different and was even struck down in the 1890's.

The one we have today has been on the books since 1913 or so.   
Exactly
As my first post

Quote from: a_joker10 on Today at 02:38:30 PM
Quote
Exactly the supreme court had it repealed until the 16th Amendment.
This was to help fund WW1.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005921.html

If the guy thought that Lincoln didn't believe in taxation then he truly didn't know anything.
Z

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31865
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2009, 03:24:26 PM »
I think when most people, accountants, lawyers, etc think about the income tax, they think of the one we have today which was codified in the 16th amendment in 1913, not a civil war income tax that was overturned in 1894. 

Of course TA is correct that there was an income tax during that period, but it was brief and overturned, and nothing like what we have today in either scope, range, amount, or percentage of income being taxed.
and still the point misses you :-\  how?  What TA said was spot on in regard to what the guy in the video said of Lincoln.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41756
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2009, 03:27:42 PM »
and still the point misses you :-\  how?  What TA said was spot on in regard to what the guy in the video said of Lincoln.

I am not arguing with you about that.  That guy was wrong and uninformed. 

The True Adonis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 50229
  • Fear is proof of a degenerate mind.
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2009, 03:32:28 PM »
I think when most people, accountants, lawyers, etc think about the income tax, they think of the one we have today which was codified in the 16th amendment in 1913, not a civil war income tax that was overturned in 1894. 

Of course TA is correct that there was an income tax during that period, but it was brief and overturned, and nothing like what we have today in either scope, range, amount, or percentage of income being taxed.
No, it was NOT brief, nor was it EVER overturned from the Civil War. 

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41756
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2009, 03:36:45 PM »
No, it was NOT brief, nor was it EVER overturned from the Civil War. 


FROM THE SITE YOU GAVE:
________________________ ________________________ ___


History of the Income Tax in the United States
Source: Tax Foundation.

The nation had few taxes in its early history. From 1791 to 1802, the United States government was supported by internal taxes on distilled spirits, carriages, refined sugar, tobacco and snuff, property sold at auction, corporate bonds, and slaves. The high cost of the War of 1812 brought about the nation's first sales taxes on gold, silverware, jewelry, and watches. In 1817, however, Congress did away with all internal taxes, relying on tariffs on imported goods to provide sufficient funds for running the government.

In 1862, in order to support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law. It was a forerunner of our modern income tax in that it was based on the principles of graduated, or progressive, taxation and of withholding income at the source. During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate. Additional sales and excise taxes were added, and an “inheritance” tax also made its debut. In 1866, internal revenue collections reached their highest point in the nation's 90-year history—more than $310 million, an amount not reached again until 1911.

The Act of 1862 established the office of Commissioner of Internal Revenue. The Commissioner was given the power to assess, levy, and collect taxes, and the right to enforce the tax laws through seizure of property and income and through prosecution. The powers and authority remain very much the same today.

In 1868, Congress again focused its taxation efforts on tobacco and distilled spirits and eliminated the income tax in 1872. It had a short-lived revival in 1894 and 1895. In the latter year, the U.S. Supreme Court decided that the income tax was unconstitutional because it was not apportioned among the states in conformity with the Constitution.

In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system. The amendment gave Congress legal authority to tax income and resulted in a revenue law that taxed incomes of both individuals and corporations. In fiscal year 1918, annual internal revenue collections for the first time passed the billion-dollar mark, rising to $5.4 billion by 1920. With the advent of World War II, employment increased, as did tax collections—to $7.3 billion. The withholding tax on wages was introduced in 1943 and was instrumental in increasing the number of taxpayers to 60 million and tax collections to $43 billion by 1945.


a_joker10

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1922
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2009, 03:40:43 PM »
No, it was NOT brief, nor was it EVER overturned from the Civil War. 
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/amdt16.html
INCOME TAX

                               __________

  The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes,
from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several
States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

                               INCOME TAX

      History and Purpose of the Amendment

        The ratification of this Amendment was the direct consequence of
the Court's decision in 1895 in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co.,\1\
whereby the attempt of Congress the previous year to tax incomes
uniformly throughout the United States\2\ was held by a divided court to
be unconstitutional. A tax on incomes derived from property,\3\ the
Court declared, was a ``direct tax'' which Congress under the terms of
Article I, Sec. 2, and Sec. 9, could impose only by the rule of
apportionment according to population, although scarcely fifteen years
prior the Justices had unanimously sustained\4\ the collection of a
similar tax during the Civil War,\5\ the only other occasion preceding
the Sixteenth Amendment in which Congress had ventured to utilize this
method of raising revenue.\6\
Z

The True Adonis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 50229
  • Fear is proof of a degenerate mind.
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2009, 03:47:41 PM »

FROM THE SITE YOU GAVE:
________________________ ________________________ ___


History of the Income Tax in the United States
Source: Tax Foundation.

The nation had few taxes in its early history. From 1791 to 1802, the United States government was supported by internal taxes on distilled spirits, carriages, refined sugar, tobacco and snuff, property sold at auction, corporate bonds, and slaves. The high cost of the War of 1812 brought about the nation's first sales taxes on gold, silverware, jewelry, and watches. In 1817, however, Congress did away with all internal taxes, relying on tariffs on imported goods to provide sufficient funds for running the government.

In 1862, in order to support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law. It was a forerunner of our modern income tax in that it was based on the principles of graduated, or progressive, taxation and of withholding income at the source. During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate. Additional sales and excise taxes were added, and an “inheritance” tax also made its debut. In 1866, internal revenue collections reached their highest point in the nation's 90-year history—more than $310 million, an amount not reached again until 1911.

The Act of 1862 established the office of Commissioner of Internal Revenue. The Commissioner was given the power to assess, levy, and collect taxes, and the right to enforce the tax laws through seizure of property and income and through prosecution. The powers and authority remain very much the same today.

In 1868, Congress again focused its taxation efforts on tobacco and distilled spirits and eliminated the income tax in 1872. It had a short-lived revival in 1894 and 1895. In the latter year, the U.S. Supreme Court decided that the income tax was unconstitutional because it was not apportioned among the states in conformity with the Constitution.

In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system. The amendment gave Congress legal authority to tax income and resulted in a revenue law that taxed incomes of both individuals and corporations. In fiscal year 1918, annual internal revenue collections for the first time passed the billion-dollar mark, rising to $5.4 billion by 1920. With the advent of World War II, employment increased, as did tax collections—to $7.3 billion. The withholding tax on wages was introduced in 1943 and was instrumental in increasing the number of taxpayers to 60 million and tax collections to $43 billion by 1945.


It is widely believed that the U.S. Supreme Court in 1895 declared income taxation in itself unconstitutional, making the Amendment necessary if the feds were to grab part of our paychecks. This is wrong. The Supreme Court’s 1895 Pollock ruling did not strike down the principle of income taxation. All it did was declare taxation of income from real and personal property unconstitutional when it is not apportioned among the states. Taxing wages and salaries was fine as far as the Court was concerned. The only reason it struck down the entire law was that the justices assumed that Congress did not intend that only wages and salaries be taxed.

To understand the Court’s reasoning we have to take up the distinction between direct and indirect taxation. The Constitution requires that direct taxes be apportioned according to the populations of the states, while indirect taxes must be uniform throughout the states. This seems straightforward, until you appreciate that the framers had no clear idea what’s a direct tax and what’s an indirect tax. Such heavyweights as James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and Fisher Ames couldn’t agree. In America income taxation has long been regarded as indirect, a kind of excise. But in England it has always been regarded as direct.

The Court in 1895 confirmed that income taxation usually is indirect and therefore does not require apportionment, only uniformity. But it found an exception. Taxing income from real and personal property, the Court said (dubiously), is like taxing the property itself, and so, in effect, is direct taxation—thus requiring apportionment. Since the law passed by Congress in 1894 did not contain an apportionment clause, that part was held unconstitutional, and so the whole thing fell.

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2009, 07:05:59 PM »
I don't care what any of those people know or don't know about the history of Income Taxes because  it's what is at the core of their protest that's important and possibly worthy of debate.

There's always some questionable motives but overall, if you can't figure out why people are pissed off in todays' climate then good luck.







George Whorewell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7362
  • TND
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2009, 09:11:28 PM »
Nobody finds it disturbing that a big time news outlet covering a protest asked a protester for their opinion and then shouted over them before they could answer and basically made fun of everyone?

Could you fucking imagine if a legitimate news outlet pulled this crap during an anti war protest, or during a pro PLO march? The whole leftist media would be yelling bloody murder over something so blatantly biased. These people have the right to be heard without some hideous elitist snob masquerding as a journalist yelling over them and then making fun of them on national television. Quite frankly, that was an embarassing display by CNN- not the protestors.

 Unfortunately, the media gets to pick and choose which voices are heard and which ones are silenced. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the protesters, that girl should be fired. Nuff said.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102387
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2009, 09:21:16 PM »
protest

Weird.  I thought it was an anti-Obama rally organized and promoted relentlessly by a media corporation.

George Whorewell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7362
  • TND
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2009, 09:29:30 PM »
LOL- Based on what? The fact that the only news outlet that covered the tea parties with any consistncy at all was FOX? By and large the protests were ignored, except for CNN which made a total fool of itself.

Give me a fucking break. Just because some dingbat on CNN and Keith "My ratings suck" Olbermann said so, doesnt make it true.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102387
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2009, 09:49:04 PM »
LOL- Based on what? The fact that the only news outlet that covered the tea parties with any consistncy at all was FOX? By and large the protests were ignored, except for CNN which made a total fool of itself.

Give me a fucking break. Just because some dingbat on CNN and Keith "My ratings suck" Olbermann said so, doesnt make it true.

Are you saying FOX was just a neutral observer of today's events?

24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24454
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2009, 09:53:14 PM »
Nobody finds it disturbing that a big time news outlet covering a protest asked a protester for their opinion and then shouted over them before they could answer and basically made fun of everyone?

People find Bill O'Reilly and the entire FOXNews line up extremely disturbing. Where've you been for the past 8 yrs?
w

MM2K

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1398
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2009, 12:35:32 AM »
Adonis,  the person was incoherent in quoting Lincoln at this rally (quoting Reagan would have made more sense). But it isnt that ironic or paradoxial like you want it to sound. Lincoln raising a measly 3% tax to fund the bloodiest war in American history is no where near comparable to Obama spending $1 trillion dollars on wastefull interest groups , which he is going to have to massively raise taxes for.
Jan. Jobs: 36,000!!

The True Adonis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 50229
  • Fear is proof of a degenerate mind.
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2009, 03:37:53 AM »
Adonis,  the person was incoherent in quoting Lincoln at this rally (quoting Reagan would have made more sense). But it isnt that ironic or paradoxial like you want it to sound. Lincoln raising a measly 3% tax to fund the bloodiest war in American history is no where near comparable to Obama spending $1 trillion dollars on wastefull interest groups , which he is going to have to massively raise taxes for.
Oh really? The mythological Conservative Reagan who ran up the budget into a deeper deficit, had an Ultra High Marginal Tax rate when compared today and a low threshold for the top taxable income limit. That Mythological hero?  Looks like you need a refresher.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=275587.0;attach=314995;image


Top Tax Rate              Taxable Income limit Max
1981   69.125      215,400
1982   50       85,600
1983   50       109,400
1984   50       162,400
1985   50       169,020
1986   50       175,250
1987   38.5       90,000





MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19314
  • Getbig!
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2009, 04:51:33 AM »
People find Bill O'Reilly and the entire FOXNews line up extremely disturbing. Where've you been for the past 8 yrs?

Yep!!! They're so disturbed that O'Reilly has been dominating the ratings for the past 8 years, taking MSNBC's lineup (Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, etc.) to the woodshed.

Nobody finds it disturbing that a big time news outlet covering a protest asked a protester for their opinion and then shouted over them before they could answer and basically made fun of everyone?

Could you fucking imagine if a legitimate news outlet pulled this crap during an anti war protest, or during a pro PLO march? The whole leftist media would be yelling bloody murder over something so blatantly biased. These people have the right to be heard without some hideous elitist snob masquerding as a journalist yelling over them and then making fun of them on national television. Quite frankly, that was an embarassing display by CNN- not the protestors.

 Unfortunately, the media gets to pick and choose which voices are heard and which ones are silenced. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the protesters, that #### should be fired. Nuff said.

That was plain dumb. That lady asked the guy a question yet cut the guy off before he finished his answer, yapping about Obama's supposed tax relief. Unless I'm mistaken, she asked him why he was there, NOT about Obama's tax plan.

I expected the MSNBC bubbas to show their behinds. And you wonder why Fox keeps spanking that behind, Jag?  ;D

James

  • Guest
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2009, 05:09:11 AM »
Quote
Oh really? The mythological Conservative Reagan who ran up the budget into a deeper deficit, had an Ultra High Marginal Tax rate when compared today and a low threshold for the top taxable income limit. That Mythological hero?  Looks like you need a refresher.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=275587.0;attach=314995;image


Top Tax Rate              Taxable Income limit Max
1981   69.125      215,400  Reagan took Office in 1981  !
1982   50       85,600          Reagen cut the Taxes by 20 % ...... from 70 % ( Jimmy Carters rate) to 50 %
1983   50       109,400
1984   50       162,400
1985   50       169,020
1986   50       175,250
1987   38.5       90,000  Reagen cuts Taxes again !

T.A. left off 1988 here it is :

1988   28      Reagen cuts again !   


trying to blame Reagan for the Tax rate he inherited   :o   :o    :o


Adonis,   You truly are one ignorant person.  or you are a liar !






When Ronald Reagan was elected, the top Tax Rate was already at 70 % ,

 yes 70 % ! ! ! !

 And by the time he was done,  he cut it  to 28 %

70% to 50 %,  then from 50 % to 28 % !


Lets look at more of the chart :

1977   70      Jimmy Carter in Office
1978   70       Jimmy Carter  in Office
1979   70       Jimmy Carter  in Office
1980   70        Jimmy Carter  in Office, Reagan wins in November 1980 ( end of the year )
1981   69.125       Reagan takes Office in 81,  cuts taxes
1982   50        Reagan in Office  taxes cut
1983   50        Reagan in Office
1984   50        Reagan in Office
1985   50       Reagan in Office
1986   50        Reagan in Office
1987   38.5     Reagan in Office  taxes cut
1988   28        Reagan in Office  taxes cut
1989   28       Bush in Office
1990   28       Bush in Office

He took it from 7o % to 28 %





The True Adonis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 50229
  • Fear is proof of a degenerate mind.
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2009, 05:20:24 AM »
You truly are one ignorant person.  or you are a liar !





When Ronald Reagan was elected, the top Tax Rate was already at 70 % ,

 yes 70 % ! ! ! !

 And by the time he was done,  he cut it  to 28 %

70% to 50 %,  then from 50 % to 28 % !


Lets look at more of the chart :

1977   70      Jimmy Carter in Office
1978   70       Jimmy Carter  in Office
1979   70       Jimmy Carter  in Office
1980   70        Jimmy Carter  in Office, Reagan wins in November 1980 ( end of the year )
1981   69.125       Reagan takes Office in 81,  cuts taxes
1982   50        Reagan in Office  taxes cut
1983   50        Reagan in Office
1984   50        Reagan in Office
1985   50       Reagan in Office
1986   50        Reagan in Office
1987   38.5     Reagan in Office  taxes cut
1988   28        Reagan in Office  taxes cut
1989   28       Reagan in Office
1990   28       Reagan in Office

He took it from 7o % to 28 %





Uh, I had no clue that Ronald Reagan was a 3 Term President.  Thanks for clearing that up.  Are you going to contact all the publishers of History books so that they can correct their errors?


The True Adonis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 50229
  • Fear is proof of a degenerate mind.
Re: DUMBASS Ignorant People Exposed and PWNED at TEABAGGER Rally!
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2009, 05:21:57 AM »
I wish people could learn how to interpret facts.