Author Topic: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..  (Read 5896 times)

Busted

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2009, 08:47:24 AM »
This is the same guy who claims to be a multi-millionare yet can't even put together a coherent sentence.

I have never once seen you put together a complete thought that is not directly from Fox News.

When Did I say I was a Multi-Millionaire?  Im in the top tax bracket, thats all iv ever said there Bible thumper.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2009, 08:50:46 AM »
I have never once seen you put together a complete thought that is not directly from Fox News.

When Did I say I was a Multi-Millionaire?  Im in the top tax bracket, thats all iv ever said there Bible thumper.

I have not been in a church in over a decade.

Busted

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2009, 09:05:07 AM »
I have not been in a church in over a decade.

You sure seem to follow the rhetoric the religious right and Fixed Noise talks about even when the facts tell a different story..

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2009, 09:05:22 AM »
Did I miss something?

Nobody is arguing there should be NO taxes. Basic services such as Police, Fire, Sanitation and the like are essential features of any functioning society- and everyone should contribute their FAIR share.

What people object to is a massive hike on taxes to pay for things that are a waste of money, forcing some people to pay high taxes while others pay none and the concept of "spreading the wealth" and class warfare being espoused by the Obama administration. Being penalized for success is something no President should stand for.

Further, people complain about socialism when 40 million+ illegals who pay no taxes drain the services our tax dollars pay for, while many Americans can't afford to pay for basic necessities. Also, throw in the fact that more than half the country pays little to no taxes at all and it's beyond socialism, its the poor parasites leeching off of society's productive members.

Pointing out a bunch of random government departments which are by and large useful to the country is totally irrelevant to the gripes people have with Obama.

Also- Statewide taxes have increased exponentially as several states are on the verge of bankruptcy- NY, CA, MI, etc. etc.-- Why are they on the verge of bankruptcy? Because of too many useless, wasteful and cash hemorrhaging social programs, higher business and corporate tax rates and entitlements passed in legislation by incompetent politicians. Socialism does not work- Raising taxes in the middle of a recession will not work*
Uh, Illegals pay taxes but don`t get any of the benefits of the system.  THAT is the real travesty.  Illegal immigrants contributed $428 billion dollars to the nation's $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006.

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2009, 09:09:32 AM »
You sure seem to follow the rhetoric the religious right and Fixed Noise talks about even when the facts tell a different story..

I dont watch fox news and am not religious ay all.  By and large I have libertarian views.

The True Adonis

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2009, 09:09:54 AM »
You can read about yourself with many, many articles on the web.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm

Many illegal immigrants pay up at tax time

Updated 4/11/2008 10:53 AM

By Travis Loller, Associated Press
NASHVILLE — The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check.
Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.





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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2009, 09:12:47 AM »
At Tax Time, "Illegal Immigrants" are Paying Too
April 10, 2008
The Associated Press
April 10, 2008

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check.

Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn’t fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.

Paycheck withholding collects much of the federal tax from illegal workers, just as it does for legal workers.

The Internal Revenue Service doesn’t track a worker’s immigration status, yet many illegal immigrants fearful of deportation won’t risk the government attention that will come from filing a return even if they might qualify for a refund. Economist William Ford of Middle Tennessee State University says there are no firm figures on how many taxpayers are in that situation.

"The real question is how many of them pay more than they owe. There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of people in that situation," Ford said.

But some illegal immigrants choose to file taxes and write a check come April 15, using an alternative to the Social Security number offered by the IRS so it can collect income tax from foreign workers.

"It’s a mistake to think that no illegal immigrants pay taxes. They definitely do," said Martha Pantoja, who has been helping Hispanic immigrants this tax season as an IRS-certified volunteer tax preparer for the nonprofit Nashville Wealth Building Coalition.

Among those she has assisted is Eric Jimenez, a self-employed handyman who has worked in Nashville for several years. He feels obliged to pay taxes — even though, as Pantoja said, "nothing would happen" to him if he did not.

"I have an idea, a mentality, that to be a good citizen you have to pay taxes," he said. "Also, I’m conscious of the fact that the money we pay in taxes supports the schools and all the public services."

Pantoja said she has helped a number of construction workers who, because they are classified as independent contractors by their employers and have no taxes withheld, owe big tax bills come April. Beyond income tax, they have to pay the full Social Security and Medicare taxes due.

The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare.

The agency estimates that for 2005, the last year for which figures are available, about $9 billion in taxes was paid on about $75 billion in wages from people who filed W2 forms with incorrect or mismatched data, which would include illegal immigrants who drew paychecks under fake names and Social Security numbers.

Spokesman Mark Hinkle says Social Security does not know how much of the $9 billion can be attributed to illegal immigrants. The number is certainly not 100 percent, but a significant portion probably comes from taxes paid by illegal immigrants.

Nine billion dollars sounds like a lot of money, and it is, but it is only about 1.5 percent of the total $593 billion paid into Social Security in 2005.

The impact on Social Security is significant, though, because most of that money is never claimed by the people who pay it but instead helps cover retirement checks to legal workers.

Federal law prohibits paying Social Security to illegal immigrants, but the administration factors in both legal and illegal immigration when projecting the trust fund’s long-term solvency.

This is especially important as the 78 million-member baby boom generation begins to leave the work force and draw Social Security checks.


"Overall, any type of immigration is a net positive to Social Security. The more people working and paying into the system, the better," Hinkle said. "It does help the system remain solvent."

The Social Security Administration drew from census and Immigration and Customs Enforcement data in 2007 to project the effects of higher and lower immigration patterns.

If net immigration is high at 1.3 million people a year, the SSA’s combined trust fund would be exhausted in 2043. But the fund runs out four years earlier if annual net immigration amounts to about half that — 472,500 legal immigrants and 250,000 illegal immigrants.

The Internal Revenue Service doesn’t have an estimate of how many illegal immigrants pay income tax.

But one indicator is the 9 million W-2 forms with mismatched names and Social Security numbers it received in 2004. The IRS said the W-2 forms with invalid Social Security numbers reported about $53 billion in wages and about three-fourths of that, $40 billion in wages, had taxes withheld.

The IRS also has been issuing Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers, or ITINs, for 12 years to foreigners without a Social Security number. It’s believed that many workers who seek the ITINs are in the country illegally, and the IRS reported that there were 2.5 million tax returns filed with an ITIN in 2004.

In 2006, then IRS Commission Mark Everson told Congress that "many illegal aliens, utilizing ITINs, have been reporting tax liability to the tune of almost $50 billion from 1996 to 2003."

An IRS spokesman said more recent figures aren’t available.

The Social Security and Medicare taxes from mismatched W2s for the same period was $41.4 billion, Hinkle said.

That adds up to roughly $90 billion in federal taxes during they eight-year period.

The IRS defends the ITIN system, despite criticism that some illegal immigrants have used it to open bank accounts, get mortgages and establish a record of residency and taxpaying they hope might someday lead to legal status.

"The ITIN program is bringing taxpayers into the system," Everson told Congress.

Middle Tennessee State’s Ford, who has studied taxes and immigration, says a majority of economists agree that illegal immigrants are a net benefit for the U.S. economy.

He said the tax contributions from illegal immigrants, including sales taxes, property taxes and excise taxes (such as the gas tax), are significant.


He calculates that illegal immigrants contributed $428 billion dollars to the nation’s $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006. That number assumes illegal immigrants are 30 percent less productive than other workers.

"If anything we need more immigrants coming into the country, not less, especially with the baby boomers retiring," he said.

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2009, 09:14:47 AM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/04/AR2006060400965.html


Study: Immigrants Pay Tax Share
No Gap With U.S.-Born Residents Seen in Area, but Those Here Illegally Account for Less

By Karin Brulliard
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, June 5, 2006; Page B01

The taxes paid by immigrant households in the Washington region are on par with those paid by native-born Americans

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2009, 11:53:58 AM »
I have been saying that for a long time regarding student loans. Corporations and Employers LOVE when they get someone who has an outstanding student loan.  They know they are not going anywhere and will be good little obedient workers.  It should not take any loan to want to learn a fact.  In fact, it should be free.  George Washington`s dream was a free National University system with the first one built in Washington DC with the money left in his will.  Sadly it has never been realized.


"There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
— George Washington

"A primary object should be the education of our youth in the science of government. In a republic, what species of knowledge can be equally important? And what duty more pressing than communicating it to those who are to be the future guardians of the liberties of the country?"
— George Washington

"Promote, then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened."
-- George Washington




Illusion of infallibility.
I hate the State.

The True Adonis

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2009, 12:14:49 PM »
Illusion of infallibility.
George Washington was far from suffering the delusion of infallibility.  The very reason he was so adamant for establishing his National University System was due to the fact that he was not a formally educated man and was bothered by this fact. His genius was in spotting latent and patent talent,ones who possessed skills he knowingly lacked and then employing them under one banner.



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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2009, 12:25:01 PM »
You can read about yourself with many, many articles on the web.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm

Many illegal immigrants pay up at tax time

Updated 4/11/2008 10:53 AM

By Travis Loller, Associated Press
NASHVILLE — The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check.
Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.



It doesn't matter how much they pay in taxes. They have no business being here; hence the reason they're called ILLEGAL immigrants. Besides, since many are working jobs for far less money than U.S. citizens would be required to be paid, whatever they pay in taxes (of the handful that might actually do so) is but a small pittance, compared to what they consume.

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2009, 12:34:52 PM »
I have never once seen you put together a complete thought that is not directly from Fox News.

When Did I say I was a Multi-Millionaire?  Im in the top tax bracket, thats all iv ever said there Bible thumper.

and i've never seen you at all, seeing as you seem to have your face permanently implanted underneath keith olbermann's jock.

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2009, 12:47:51 PM »
George Washington was far from suffering the delusion of infallibility.  The very reason he was so adamant for establishing his National University System was due to the fact that he was not a formally educated man and was bothered by this fact. His genius was in spotting latent and patent talent,ones who possessed skills he knowingly lacked and then employing them under one banner.




I am was referring to you actually...
I hate the State.

The True Adonis

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2009, 02:46:51 PM »
I am was referring to you actually...
In what manner and why? 

One question to you...Have you been a negative and apathetic person your entire life or is it relatively new?

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2009, 01:53:14 AM »
It doesn't matter how much they pay in taxes. They have no business being here; hence the reason they're called ILLEGAL immigrants. Besides, since many are working jobs for far less money than U.S. citizens would be required to be paid, whatever they pay in taxes (of the handful that might actually do so) is but a small pittance, compared to what they consume.

Deport every single illegal alien out of the USA overnight,
...and see how quickly you cry like a baby begging them to come back.
The economies of Cali, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas would collapse overnight and your country would starve!
w

George Whorewell

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2009, 06:38:25 AM »
LMAOOOOOO--- Right. What would happen is that Americans would get those jobs, businesses would be forced to pay at least minimum wage, and 40+ million strains on our social services would be gone.

This nonsense about our economy collapsing overnight because employers would have to hire Americans is a bunch of horseshit. The argument is also 110% hypocritical. You same pro illegals bitch about American jobs going overseas, world trade, outsourcing and the like-- Yet you want illegals to stay here and do exactly the same thing. Seems to me like you can't have it both ways.

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2009, 06:40:23 AM »
LMAOOOOOO--- Right. What would happen is that Americans would get those jobs, businesses would be forced to pay at least minimum wage, and 40+ million strains on our social services would be gone.

This nonsense about our economy collapsing overnight because employers would have to hire Americans is a bunch of horseshit. The argument is also 110% hypocritical. You same pro illegals bitch about American jobs going overseas, world trade, outsourcing and the like-- Yet you want illegals to stay here and do exactly the same thing. Seems to me like you can't have it both ways.
Did I mention that I love the basis of your moniker.  George Orwell was one of the greatest Socialist writers and thinkers of his time and of course his work still lives on today.

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2009, 06:46:47 AM »
TA I saw the first, second, third and now fourth time. And for your information, Orwell was not a socialist in the same vein as the term is applied today. If anything his most famous books are cautionary tales against having big government control everything. 

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2009, 07:01:14 AM »
TA I saw the first, second, third and now fourth time. And for your information, Orwell was not a socialist in the same vein as the term is applied today. If anything his most famous books are cautionary tales against having big government control everything. 
Uh, you are quite wrong on that one.
George Orwell`s real name was Eric Arthur Blair.
Did you not realize that he wrote under another name, "John Freeman", and penned "Can Socialists be Happy".

Here is some more info for you.


Blair then took a job teaching at the Hawthorne High School for Boys in Hayes, West London. This was a small school that provided private schooling for local tradesmen and shopkeepers and comprised only 20 boys and one other master.[17] While at the school he became friendly with the local curate and became involved with the local church. Mabel Fierz had pursued matters with Moore, and at the end of June 1932, Moore told Blair that Victor Gollancz was prepared to publish A Scullion's Diary for a £40 advance, for his recently founded publishing house, Victor Gollancz Ltd, which was an outlet for radical and socialist works.



Orwell set out for Spain on about 23 December, dining with Henry Miller in Paris on the way. A few days later at Barcelona, he met John McNair of the ILP Office who quoted him: "I've come to fight against Fascism".[23] Orwell stepped into a complex political situation in Catalonia. The Republican government was supported by a number of factions with conflicting aims, including the Workers' Party of Marxist Unification (POUM — Partido Obrero de Unificación Marxista), the anarcho-syndicalist CNT and the Unified Socialist Party of Catalonia (a wing of the Spanish Communist Party, which was backed by Soviet arms and aid). The Independent Labour Party was linked to the POUM and so Orwell joined the POUM.[/glow]

Orwell was declared "Unfit for any kind of military service" by the Medical Board in June, but soon afterwards found an opportunity to become involved in war activities by joining the Home Guard. He shared Tom Wintringham's socialist vision for the Home Guard as a revolutionary People's Militia.


In this work he states his idea of socialism as "a real Socialist is one who wishes - not merely conceives it as desirable, but actively wishes - to see tyranny overthrown". However it was the Spanish Civil War that played the most important part in defining his socialism. He wrote to Cyril Connolly from Barcelona on 8 June 1937: "I have seen wonderful things and at last really believe in Socialism, which I never did before".[64][65] Having witnessed the success of the anarcho-syndicalist communities, and the subsequent brutal suppression of the anarcho-syndicalists and other revolutionaries by the Soviet-backed Communists, Orwell returned from Catalonia a staunch anti-Stalinist and joined the Independent Labour Party, his card being issued on 13 June 1938.


Orwell wrote "For some years past I have managed to make the capitalist class pay me several pounds a week for writing books against capitalism. But I do not delude myself that this state of affairs is going to last forever",[67] going on to add "the only régime which, in the long run, will dare to permit freedom of speech is a Socialist régime. If Fascism triumphs I am finished as a writer - that is to say, finished in my only effective capacity. That of itself would be a sufficient reason for joining a Socialist party."



The True Adonis

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2009, 07:02:52 AM »
Orwell joined the staff of Tribune as literary editor, and from then until his death was a left-wing (though hardly orthodox) Labour-supporting democratic socialist.

guy also considers that "the other crucial dimension to Orwell's socialism was his recognition that the Soviet Union was not socialist. Unlike many on the left, instead of abandoning socialism once he discovered the full horror of Stalinist rule in the Soviet Union, Orwell abandoned the Soviet Union and instead remained a socialist--indeed he became more committed to the socialist cause than ever."

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2009, 07:04:58 AM »
Did you read 1984 and Animal Farm? Orwell may have been a socialist, but he was not in favor of massively inflated government.

And that last quote about free speech proves my point undeniably. Socialism today is almost hand in hand with facism.

I never said he was not a socialist. I said he would not agree with socialism as it is today.

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2009, 07:06:00 AM »
TA I saw the first, second, third and now fourth time. And for your information, Orwell was not a socialist in the same vein as the term is applied today. If anything his most famous books are cautionary tales against having big government control everything. 
Do you realize you are trying to rewrite Orwell`s political beliefs.  He was one of the most pure Socialists ever and supported Socialism from the start.

It is ironic that you are trying to deliberately misconstrue and lie about Orwell`s political beliefs.  Personally, I think you were probably just totally ignorant that he was a major Socialist.

1984 and Animal Farm are wonderful avocations for Socialism as that was his sole intention.

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2009, 07:06:58 AM »
PS- Posting in big FONT is something that people who are insecure or have weak arguments do. There is no need to write bigger. It doesnt make the words any "LOUDER".

The True Adonis

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2009, 07:07:53 AM »
Did you read 1984 and Animal Farm? Orwell may have been a socialist, but he was not in favor of massively inflated government.

And that last quote about free speech proves my point undeniably. Socialism today is almost hand in hand with facism.

I never said he was not a socialist. I said he would not agree with socialism as it is today.
You are too dumb to realize the definition of fascism.  It is SO FAR from Socialism.  That last quote proves that Stalinistic Russia was in no way Socialist.  Inflated government has NOTHING to do with Socialism.

You really are not too bright at all.

The True Adonis

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Re: Anti Socialist Hypocrites..
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2009, 07:09:12 AM »
PS- Posting in big FONT is something that people who are insecure or have weak arguments do. There is no need to write bigger. It doesnt make the words any "LOUDER".
At least you learned for the first time, that George Orwell was a Socialist and championed for Socialism his entire life which is the reason why he wrote the books that he did.