Palin's father: Levi not helping pay for baby care

[MCWAY]

Look MC i dont think anybody here is argueing the need for a man to take care of their children what we are saying is that a women has that same responsibility and the law doesnt recognize that fact. Its shown in abortion laws as opposed to child support laws, its shown in amount paid by men as opposed to women, its shown in the bias in outcomes in situations with men and women and their children who are seperated. I agree with you, take care of you children but i disagree that b/c you are a man you have more of a responsibility then women do under the law.

Men have always had more responsibility. We're supposed to take care of our children. The fact that men are running from that responsibility and abandoning their own flesh and blood is why our society has many of the woes that it does today.

[tu_holmes]

Promises were made to be broken. Regardless of what you allegedly claim you can do to me, you still remain a straight-up punk, if you use pitiful excuses for not taking care of your children.

YAWWWNN!!!!! Color me unimpressed!!!

 

You are a piece of shit who doesn't know anything... I LOVE my children and I guarantee you, if you ever said it to my face, your grandchildren would feel the pain.

You think you are tough because you have a keyboard and that you can talk about other people and how they feel about your children?

You are obviously castrated by your bitch ass hag of a wife... So feel free to find me... I'm not hiding.

I know I won't be seeing you soon.

[Hereford]

Men have always had more responsibility. We're supposed to take care of our children. The fact that men are running from that responsibility and abandoning their own flesh and blood is why our society has many of the woes that it does today.

Yep, but how many women use kids as weapons these days? How many take the man to court to get some asanine child-support judgement, then go buy new cars and clothes for themselves? I know guys who pay $1200 a month, and never get to see their kids without going to court for 6 months first. And these are decent guys... just in Cali the women wins 98% of the time.

[tonymctones]

Men have always had more responsibility. We're supposed to take care of our children. The fact that men are running from that responsibility and abandoning their own flesh and blood is why our society has many of the woes that it does today.

I agree but when WOMEN start yelling about equal rights under the law, they should get equal rights not preferential treatment which is what they recieve, wouldnt you agree? Nobody is advocating that men shouldnt take care of their children we are simply making a point that the legal system isnt fair in this instance. Again a women can have an abortion legally without a mans consent, do you believe that to be fair? Probably not
but if a man doesnt want a child he is screwed if the women does and even after the fact is made to pay more then women on average and have less access, is that fair?

[tu_holmes]

Yep, but how many women use kids as weapons these days? How many take the man to court to get some asanine child-support judgement, then go buy new cars and clothes for themselves? I know guys who pay $1200 a month, and never get to see their kids without going to court for 6 months first. And these are decent guys... just in Cali the women wins 98% of the time.

My ex-wife works 5 hour days, goofs off and goes out and parties while dropping my kids off with MY parents... because I have to be 3000 miles away for my job, since we decided we were going to move Los Angeles for a great career opportunity, then she decided, after I had moved here and started to setup a residence, that she wanted a divorce from me and started fucking the guy who was coming over to "help her sell the house."

I pay more than your friend btw and fly back to the east coast EVERY month for 2 weeks to see them and be a part of their lives.

So excuse me if I think MCWAY is a piece of shit who is talking out of his ass without knowing a god damn thing about the situation.

[tonymctones]

Yep, but how many women use kids as weapons these days? How many take the man to court to get some asanine child-support judgement, then go buy new cars and clothes for themselves? I know guys who pay $1200 a month, and never get to see their kids without going to court for 6 months first. And these are decent guys... just in Cali the women wins 98% of the time.

no doubt i have a friend who has a baby with a chick he isnt with, she has threatened on more then one occasion to move away from him so he couldnt see the baby, also is always really excited when he gets a raise b/c as she put it "when you get a raise, i get a raise"

[Hereford]

My ex-wife works 5 hour days, goofs off and goes out and parties while dropping my kids off with MY parents... because I have to be 3000 miles away for my job, since we decided we were going to move Los Angeles for a great career opportunity, then she decided, after I had moved here and started to setup a residence, that she wanted a divorce from me and started fucking the guy who was coming over to "help her sell the house."

I pay more than your friend btw and fly back to the east coast EVERY month for 2 weeks to see them and be a part of their lives.

So excuse me if I think MCWAY is a piece of shit who is talking out of his ass without knowing a god damn thing about the situation.

That is totally fucked bro, sorry to hear that shit.

Who's 'Great Career Opportunity"? If I may ask?

[tu_holmes]

That is totally fucked bro, sorry to hear that shit.

Who's 'Great Career Opportunity"? If I may ask?

It was mine... but she was with it 100 percent... She had no career... She only has a job... no skills... no nothing.

If I were to die tomorrow, both she and my kids would be completely fucked until my kids turned 18 and could collect on my Insurance that I have left to them.

[LurkerNoMore]

One thing to consider is the fact that many courts have judges that operate under the "old days" syndrome.

Meaning in the old days (their youth), the father was the bread winner and the mother stayed home.  The father was the sole support for the family and the money maker.  Without him, there would be no money for the child.  So they tend to protect the women in court cases like this.

Is it fair?  No.  I believe that an honest hearing and assessment should be conducted and the better parent awarded.  But unfortunately that isn't always the case.  However, a kid that is used by one parent as a weapon against the other will always remember that and when reaching adulthood they can make their own decision where their loyalties lay.  (Doesn't make it easier in the short term for the father though who misses 80% of his childs upbringing and childhood)

[MCWAY]

You are a piece of shit who doesn't know anything... I LOVE my children and I guarantee you, if you ever said it to my face, your grandchildren would feel the pain.

You think you are tough because you have a keyboard and that you can talk about other people and how they feel about your children?

I'm sorry!!! Who was the one calling people "p#*@^@#", because they didn't share your opinion about this particular situation? OH, that would be YOU!!!

So, if you can't take the criticism, don't dish it out.

Yet, when you get called about your statements, you get all whiny and start making threats. Again, color me unimpressed.

You are obviously castrated by your bitch ass hag of a wife... So feel free to find me... I'm not hiding.

I know I won't be seeing you soon.

WOW!! You can dish out the barbs but can't take them. My, my, my how impressive!!!

I don't need to find you for any rhyme or reason (I have better things to do with my time and money).

Just because you're disgruntled with the unfortunate circumstances, regarding your family, does not give you license to demean others who disagree with your view, without their being able to respond in kind.

[tu_holmes]

I'm sorry!!! Who was the one calling people "p#*@^@#", because they didn't share your opinion about this particular situation? OH, that would be YOU!!!

So, if you can't take the criticism, don't dish it out.

Yet, when you get called about your statements, you get all whiny and start making threats. Again, color me unimpressed.

WOW!! You can dish out the barbs but can't take them. My, my, my how impressive!!!

I don't need to find you for any rhyme or reason (I have better things to do with my time and money).

Just because you're disgruntled with the unfortunate circumstances, regarding your family, does not give you license to demean others who disagree with your view, without their being able to respond in kind.

Uh... you called ME a punk you fruitcake.

You're a piece of shit... Continue to be a bitch because you wouldn't dare say it to my face.

[Dos Equis]

I don't really think that single point negates anything else that's said.

If you do, that's pretty myopic.

Of course it does.  If he says something so blatantly incorrect how can you trust any of the unsourced information he provides?  That's how credibility works.  

I pull stuff off the internet all the time, but you never really know what you're getting, especially if the author doesn't provide any backup for his or her statements.    

[MCWAY]

Uh... you called ME a punk you fruitcake.

You're a piece of shit... Continue to be a bitch because you wouldn't dare say it to my face.

And, you called me a "P&#^@". What's your point?

Again, you can dish out the criticism but you can't take it.

[Dos Equis]

I only agree with half of this.

I definately believe he and any other father should support their children.  No exceptions.

However, in the case of the parents not being married and living apart, it is best to let the courts decide what his support should be.  This is for the benefit for the man, not the woman.  It establishes fail safe guidelines for documentation and evidence of said support.  Because otherwise, if the man spends years giving this woman money, buying clothes, food, etc..  it will not mean shit if she plays the "baby card" to stop him from seeing his kid.  Which we all know some women do.  Not a knock or generalization against women, but just the truth, some use the baby as a tool against each other.  While this thread is about Palin/Levi my comment there wasn't. 

The man needs guidelines to follow.  Otherwise there is a chance of a possible headache awaiting hiim down the road.  Get a baseline of support established.  If he wants to do more, by all means more power to him.  You can't be punished for doing more, but you can for doing less.

I understand the role the courts serve and unfortunately the courts are required for deadbeat dads, but I'm really just making a broader point that a real man will care for his children without being forced to do so.  Who cares what a judge says?  If you father a baby, you have a moral obligation to provide food, clothes, shelter, etc. for your child, regardless of whether you have physical custody.  

I'm not really talking about the law.  I'm talking about doing the right thing.  Being a man.  Accepting responsibility.  What I'm reading in this thread (not from you) is a bunch of whining about how "unfair" the "system" is, blah blah blah.  Even if true, that doesn't change a real man's responsibility to his kids.  

[tu_holmes]

And, you called me a "P&#^@". What's your point?

Again, you can dish out the criticism but you can't take it.

I would NEVER say something about a person and their kids.

That's just shitty... You are the lowest of the low.

[Dos Equis]

Spare me the "you don't know me" diatribe, another tired phrase of excuse-making chumps.

I am none of the above. However, I am a father. So, I can say with all certainty that men who make pitiful excuses (such as you have done) for not taking care of their children are, as Beach Bum so eloquently put it, STRAIGHT-UP PUNKS.

Standing there, sniveling about so-called rights, pay, and the like, looking for any excuse to duck responsibility for your offspring is downright pathetic. I don't care what the rules are or what the government does or doesn't.

As a father, your job is to do whatever it takes to care for your children, END OF STORY. If you're so worried about the money, then find out what they need (clothes, insurance, tuition, etc.) and take care of that directly.

Oops.  Sorry to be an echo with my last post.    I completely agree.  

[Dos Equis]

This is actually a good discussion.  Let's not turn it into Z Board material. 

[MCWAY]

One thing to consider is the fact that many courts have judges that operate under the "old days" syndrome.

Meaning in the old days (their youth), the father was the bread winner and the mother stayed home.  The father was the sole support for the family and the money maker.  Without him, there would be no money for the child.  So they tend to protect the women in court cases like this.

Is it fair?  No.  I believe that an honest hearing and assessment should be conducted and the better parent awarded.  But unfortunately that isn't always the case.  However, a kid that is used by one parent as a weapon against the other will always remember that and when reaching adulthood they can make their own decision where their loyalties lay.  (Doesn't make it easier in the short term for the father though who misses 80% of his childs upbringing and childhood)

Good points, indeed. But, part of the problem is that, in too many cases, the fathers missing 80% of their child’s life is done of their own decision. Therefore, the child support laws have been modified to account for that.

But, like any law, that can be abused and misused to the detriment of decent dads.

I understand the role the courts serve and unfortunately the courts are required for deadbeat dads, but I'm really just making a broader point that a real man will care for his children without being forced to do so.  Who cares what a judge says?  If you father a baby, you have a moral obligation to provide food, clothes, shelter, etc. for your child, regardless of whether you have physical custody.  

I'm not really talking about the law.  I'm talking about doing the right thing.  Being a man.  Accepting responsibility.  What I'm reading in this thread (not from you) is a bunch of whining about how "unfair" the "system" is, blah blah blah.  Even if true, that doesn't change a real man's responsibility to his kids.  

AMEN!!!

That's the point I was making, as well.

[MCWAY]

I would NEVER say something about a person and their kids.

That's just shitty... You are the lowest of the low.

First of all, I didn’t say anything negative about your children, unlike your DIRECT and disrespectful comments about my wife.

Secondly, as Beach Bum indicated, the issue that he and I have are in regards to the legions of pitiful excuses, for men not taking care of their children.

That is where the discussion lies.

[Dos Equis]

First of all, I didn’t say anything negative about your children, unlike your DIRECT and disrespectful comments about my wife.

Secondly, as Beach Bum indicated, the issue that he and I have are in regards to the legions of pitiful excuses, for men not taking care of their children.

That is where the discussion lies.

Correct. 

Tu no one is talking about you personally.  I'm sorry to hear about what your ex did.  Terrible.  I'm a firm believer in "what goes around, comes around," so her day is coming. 

But your situation doesn't really deal with deadbeats, because you obviously take care of your kids.  Huge sacrifice you're making to raise them.  That's the kind of commitment that all fathers should make to their kids.  What too many fathers will do is run away when faced with "unfair" situations.   

[tonymctones]

I think you guys are misunderstanding our point, NOBODY IS SAYING TO NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CHILDREN, the point is that the law is biased and even society is biased point in case a few posts back beach you referred to dead beat dads, i understand this term but what name do you call a women who chooses to get an abortion for non medical reasons?

Its perfectly fine for women to not take responsibility for their actions under the law and even society to a degree but the man gets plastered with names and law suits if he chooses not to, that sound fair to you guys?

Add to that the raping on average a man takes in child support, divorce etc...

I think all me and holmes are saying is that there should be equal rights under the law and there simply isnt.

[tu_holmes]

First of all, I didn’t say anything negative about your children, unlike your DIRECT and disrespectful comments about my wife.

Secondly, as Beach Bum indicated, the issue that he and I have are in regards to the legions of pitiful excuses, for men not taking care of their children.

That is where the discussion lies.

No... you said it about me in relation TO my children.

No excuse.

[24KT]

I think you guys are misunderstanding our point, NOBODY IS SAYING TO NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CHILDREN, the point is that the law is biased and even society is biased point in case a few posts back beach you referred to dead beat dads, i understand this term but what name do you call a women who chooses to get an abortion for non medical reasons?

Its perfectly fine for women to not take responsibility for their actions under the law and even society to a degree but the man gets plastered with names and law suits if he chooses not to, that sound fair to you guys?

Add to that the raping on average a man takes in child support, divorce etc...

I think all me and holmes are saying is that there should be equal rights under the law and there simply isnt.

How does that absolve Levi from taking care of his responsibilities? It doesn't.

[tonymctones]

How does that absolve Levi from taking care of his responsibilities? It doesn't.

i never said it did and i dont think holmes did either, we got off on a tangent 

[24KT]

i never said it did and i dont think holmes did either, we got off on a tangent 

You think?