Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!

[Royal Lion]

I'd say accusing me of being a gimmick is a meltdown...

[Hulkster]

I'd say accusing me of being a gimmick is a meltdown...

its not too often people come on here and agree with ND's bullshit and pathetic excuses.

your a rare breed..

and thats not a good thing in this case..

[Royal Lion]

Plenty of people think Dorian is the greatest Olympian ever.  I never said he was to greatest ever...one of the greatest and IMO the most conditioned.

[Hulkster]

Plenty of people think Dorian is the greatest Olympian ever

not that many..ask Neoseminole for about a billion quotes from fellow pros, magazine writers, ietc saying ronnie is the best ever.

had dorian not torn his bi so early on in his career, his may have been viewed a little more positively,

most feel dorian was downhill from 1994 onward. that only leaves two wins out of 6 without a missing arm..

[NeoSeminole]

here we go we're talking about genetics for muscle striations which one can see and the best part is you're sole means of visual inspection is no where near as accurate as actually being there , nevermind the fact that what we do have there is still a disparity between the two i.e pics and video

ha ha, of course you think my response is absurd. It's obvious you don't know wtf you're talking about.

Dorian Yates has said on multiple occasions he's better conditioned than Ronnie Coleman specifically he's an IFBB judge and has seen both at their best , this renders anything you type moot

wrong, Dorian never explicitly said which versions he was comparing and his opinion means nothing if it isn't supported by evidence or some objective guidelines for determining level of conditioning.

[NarcissisticDeity]

so ND claims many dorian pics lack quality because they are old

and

he also claims that almost all modern Ronnie shots are faked/touched up/oversharpened..

do you see what is happening here?

he has an excuse for everything that shows Ronnie was better and or had better conditioning

classic ad hoc argument

rather than admit what reality shows us, he makes up bullshit "explanations" for why dorian was really better/better conditioned even though all the visuals show he wasn't..

 

ha ha ha ha please show me where I ever claimed almost all modern Ronnie shots are faked/touched up/oversharpened..
you're reduced to making shit up again ....you know you can't find anything remotely close to that so you're forced to make shit up . you post pics I'll tell you which ones have been proven to be enhanced 

there is an obvious difference between photography technology from Yates era to Ronnie even you're not stupid enough to argue otherwise ....wait yeah you are lol in fact when Kevin Horton busted you using one of your many enhanced pics he stated specifically you're posting a slanted comparison of a ' crappy scan of Dorian to a oversharpened screencap of Ronnie '

I don't need excuses I have Ronnie stating multiple times he could never beat Dorian  that ended the truce thread and you're the loser with excuses

[ASJChaotic]

ha ha ha ha please show me where I ever claimed almost all modern Ronnie shots are faked/touched up/oversharpened..
you're reduced to making shit up again ....you know you can't find anything remotely close to that so you're forced to make shit up . you post pics I'll tell you which ones have been proven to be enhanced 

there is an obvious difference between photography technology from Yates era to Ronnie even you're not stupid enough to argue otherwise ....wait yeah you are lol in fact when Kevin Horton busted you using one of your many enhanced pics he stated specifically you're posting a slanted comparison of a ' crappy scan of Dorian to a oversharpened screencap of Ronnie '

I don't need excuses I have Ronnie stating multiple times he could never beat Dorian  that ended the truce thread and you're the loser with excuses

You are a one man army my friend    

[NarcissisticDeity]

ha ha, of course you think my response is absurd. It's obvious you don't know wtf you're talking about.

wrong, Dorian never explicitly said which versions he was comparing and his opinion means nothing if it isn't supported by evidence or some objective guidelines for determining level of conditioning.

ha ha, of course you think my response is absurd. It's obvious you don't know wtf you're talking about.

out of the two of us , I clearly know more about competitive bodybuilding than you do , I've proven that time and time again , you didn't and still don't know how competitive bodybuilding is scored , what constitutes great conditioning , that balance & proportion were two separate entities lol that 2003 was NOT Ronnie's peak , I mean I don't have to continue ?

wrong, Dorian never explicitly said which versions he was comparing and his opinion means nothing if it isn't supported by evidence or some objective guidelines for determining level of conditioning.

lol his opinion means nothing , such a fan-boy statement very typical of you . Dorian is an IFBB judge if he says he has better conditioning than Ronnie it's LAW and coincides with what Peter McGough says can anyone say convergence? I've always maintained Ronnie may have equaled Dorian in terms of density & dryness albeit it lightest but there is a big difference between being that hard & dry when you're 260+

Dorian is noted for his conditioning , I know this pains you to hear but his its legendary Ronnie's isn't , when Dorian says " I feel I have better conditioning than him " that means in general he doesn't have to get specific and entertaining Ronnie did this means what? he's still down balance & proportion ( which again Yates said he has him here too ) and posing & presentation as well as bulk so in the end you're right back to square one.....no where .

[NarcissisticDeity]

not that many..ask Neoseminole for about a billion quotes from fellow pros, magazine writers, ietc saying ronnie is the best ever.

had dorian not torn his bi so early on in his career, his may have been viewed a little more positively,

most feel dorian was downhill from 1994 onward. that only leaves two wins out of 6 without a missing arm..

BOOM jackass ( I told you this quote would haunt you  )

what matters more than ANYONE else is......what Ronnie Coleman has to say and why?

he knows more than you and more than McGough ever will about his own physique..

Ronnie Coleman's opinion trumps everyone else .

[NarcissisticDeity]

If Shawn was 3-4" taller, he would have been a Mr. Olympia. He really was THAT good and for the most part, was better than Dorian, with exception to 1993 imo.

If he would have been ' 3-4" ' taller he still would have been 205 pounds lol so now he have to add in 40 pounds heavier to compensate for the height , then we have to add clavicle width as well because he as narrow too , I mean sure if we recreated Shawn Ray he ' could ' beat Dorian but we deal in reality and we saw how that turned out

[NarcissisticDeity]

Dorian really did have poor biceps, thighs and midsection... IT severely detracts from the overall balance of his physique.

ha ha ha ha and Ronnie's pathetic calves , long legs and short torso as well as unproportionate forearms don't detract from his  go learn what great balance is then come back.

Great balance included upper & lower body balance , leg length in relation to the torso , proportion from one muscle to the next , clavicle width , height , Dorian's balance will always been better than Ronnies at their respective bests

this is from the same photoshoot is this what you call ' poor biceps ' ? if so I think Len Crafters is having a sale

[Royal Lion]

Shawn Ray was an amazing pro and one of the most consistent.  He had amazing lines, but when standing next to some of the bigger guys, e.g. Doz, Ronnie, Levrone, he couldn't hang.  He would undoubtedly be the king of today's 202 class.

This is Dorian in 1994 - no way Ray was better.

[CastIron]

ha ha ha ha and Ronnie's pathetic calves , long legs and short torso as well as unproportionate forearms don't detract from his  go learn what great balance is then come back.

Great balance included upper & lower body balance , leg length in relation to the torso , proportion from one muscle to the next , clavicle width , height , Dorian's balance will always been better than Ronnies at their respective bests

this is from the same photoshoot is this what you call ' poor biceps ' ? if so I think Len Crafters is having a sale

Wow that's impressive. Tobad for the injuries that caused Dorian to quit. I would of like to see him as 8 time Mr. O than Coleman.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Shawn Ray was an amazing pro and one of the most consistent.  He had amazing lines, but when standing next to some of the bigger guys, e.g. Doz, Ronnie, Levrone, he couldn't hang.  He would undoubtedly be the king of today's 202 class.

This is Dorian in 1994 - no way Ray was better.

He wasn't better than Dorian according to the IFBB criteria is concerned when people say Shawn was better most are referring purely from an aesthetic prospective and you'll get no argument from me Shawn had a prettier physique , but that's not enough to win it all .

[Royal Lion]

I think Dorian's best year may have been 1994...he looks much larger than 1993 and seems to be just as conditioned.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I think Dorian's best year may have been 1994...he looks much larger than 1993 and seems to be just as conditioned.

He was 262 pounds in 1994 he looked heavier too , but his God-awful tan and fresh tears he wasn't his best but still clearly good enough to beat Shawn Ray

[CastIron]

What's Dorian up to now, does anybody know. Is he still training clients and running that gym.

[Royal Lion]

This shot is crazy! 

If he was 262 here, what did he weigh in 1993? 

[NarcissisticDeity]

This shot is crazy! 

If he was 262 here, what did he weigh in 1993? 

257 pounds

[NeoSeminole]

out of the two of us , I clearly know more about competitive bodybuilding than you do , I've proven that time and time again , you didn't and still don't know how competitive bodybuilding is scored , what constitutes great conditioning , that balance & proportion were two separate entities lol that 2003 was NOT Ronnie's peak , I mean I don't have to continue?

yawn, what does any of this have to do with anatomy? Am I suppose to be impressed that you've been reading Flex magazine longer than I have? LOL

lol his opinion means nothing , such a fan-boy statement very typical of you . Dorian is an IFBB judge if he says he has better conditioning than Ronnie it's LAW and coincides with what Peter McGough says can anyone say convergence? I've always maintained Ronnie may have equaled Dorian in terms of density & dryness albeit it lightest but there is a big difference between being that hard & dry when you're 260+

no, it's not law. A judge is not perfect, and oftentimes the judges don't all agree with each other. Furthermore, we already established that Dorian was generalizing when he compared their conditioning. Ronnie was hit or miss while Dorian was consistent. He never explicitly said Ronnie never had better conditioning.

[NarcissisticDeity]

yawn, what does any of this have to do with anatomy? Am I suppose to be impressed that you've been reading Flex magazine longer than I have? LOL

no, it's not law. A judge is not perfect, and oftentimes the judges don't all agree with each other. Furthermore, we already established that Dorian was generalizing when he compared their conditioning. Ronnie was hit or miss while Dorian was consistent. He never explicitly said Ronnie never had better conditioning.

yawn, what does any of this have to do with anatomy? Am I suppose to be impressed that you've been reading Flex magazine longer than I have? LOL

I've been reading bodybuilding magazines since 1985 and I bought just about every book on the subject it's not only Flex magazine kid

no, it's not law. A judge is not perfect, and oftentimes the judges don't all agree with each other. Furthermore, we already established that Dorian was generalizing when he compared their conditioning. Ronnie was hit or miss while Dorian was consistent. He never explicitly said Ronnie never had better conditioning.

Ah the old semantics game lol I could always count on you for this lame attempt ,  ' he never explicitly said Ronnie never had better conditioning '  he said at least two times his conditioning and balance are better than Ronnie , it coincides with McGough's quotes and well as others that to this day talk about Dorian's legendary conditioning , not Ronnies. and again I'm willing to concede perhaps Ronnie did match Yates in 1998/2001 he was razor sharp and hard as nails but again the difference is he couldn't replicate that conditioning at higher weights and any hypothetical comparison of the two this is one area where Ronnie would either tie or outright lose in now couple that with clear advantages in bulk , balance & proportion , posing & presentation all of these would tip any contest in Yates' favor

the best legitimate chance Ronnie would have of beating Dorian would be 2001 Arnold

[NarcissisticDeity]

yawn, what does any of this have to do with anatomy? Am I suppose to be impressed that you've been reading Flex magazine longer than I have? LOL

no, it's not law. A judge is not perfect, and oftentimes the judges don't all agree with each other. Furthermore, we already established that Dorian was generalizing when he compared their conditioning. Ronnie was hit or miss while Dorian was consistent. He never explicitly said Ronnie never had better conditioning.

I forgot about the topics of judges , you obviously don't know how contests are judged allow me to teach you about this as well  , judges have to prove themselves before they adjudicate over the biggest contest in the IFBB , they must first prove themselves to be consistent on a national level , then pros shows then the Olympia.

Judges who scores deviate to much from the others are removed for bias , what they look for is consistency over the years , and to insure this as well they toss out the highs & lows . I'm not going to say it's perfect but it's as good as it gets . and Dorian is known as a straight shooter he doesn't sugar coat things and tells it like it is , he's honest so that's one of the reasons he makes a good judge .

[Royal Lion]

yawn, what does any of this have to do with anatomy? Am I suppose to be impressed that you've been reading Flex magazine longer than I have? LOL

no, it's not law. A judge is not perfect, and oftentimes the judges don't all agree with each other. Furthermore, we already established that Dorian was generalizing when he compared their conditioning. Ronnie was hit or miss while Dorian was consistent. He never explicitly said Ronnie never had better conditioning.

What I don't get is this:  ND has repeatedly said that a best-ever Ronnie could beat a best-ever Dorian, correct?  Why are Hulkster and crew not satisfied with that?  

They make ridiculous statements about Dorian's "bricklayer" build and "keg with arms" that have absolutely no basis.  Dorian had torn muscles and wasn't at his best towards the end of his career -- Ronnie had torn muscles and wasn't at his best either towards the end.  Bottom line is both were awesome and both deserve respect.  We will never know the outcome of a 93-95 Yates versus a 98-99/01 Ronnie...the nod probably goes to RC, but it would be damn close.

At least Doz didn't take 5th in his last showing.  

[NarcissisticDeity]

What I don't get is this:  ND has repeatedly said that a best-ever Ronnie could beat a best-ever Dorian, correct?  Why are Hulkster and crew not satisfied with that?  

They make ridiculous statements about Dorian's "bricklayer" build and "keg with arms" that have absolutely no basis.  Dorian had torn muscles and wasn't at his best towards the end of his career -- Ronnie had torn muscles and wasn't at his best either towards the end.  Bottom line is both were awesome and both deserve respect.  We will never know the outcome of a 93-95 Yates versus a 98-99/01 Ronnie...the nod probably goes to RC, but it would be damn close.

At least Doz didn't take 5th in his last showing.  

These guys go to great lengths to tear Dorian down , they think somehow this helps their case , if you listen to them it's a miracle he ever won a single show nevermind was the most dominant bodybuilder in IFBB history  . but they just don't get Dorian and that's bias they think Dorian doesn't look like Ronnie so he could never beat Ronnie , I for the life of me couldn't figure out how Dorian beat Flex Wheeler in 1993 , I was crying politics , etc , etc it wasn't until I learned how they actually judge contests did I realize how dominant Yates was in 1993 , they like what they like and base their opinions off of that which is what most people do .

[Royal Lion]

I didn't follow bodybuilding much during Dorian's reign (unfortunately);  I do know that Ronnie was super dominant when he put everything together, e.g. 98,99,01(AC) 03-05, but he also came close to losing in 01 & 02 and did lose in 06.  So, at first glance it is easy to think Ronnie was the most dominant, and perhaps he was when he nailed it, but it seems Dorian was more consistent and therefore was never challenged to the degree Jay and Keven challenged Ronnie in 01 & 02 respectively and Jay beat him in 06.  I think the closest anyone got to Doz was 97, but I agree with the result.