Author Topic: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!  (Read 20702 times)

Immortal_Technique

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2009, 04:56:21 AM »
Dorian schooling Ronnie on what conditioning is

Epic picture of irrelevance. What would the guy on the left look like with 50 more pounds and craziest dry lines in his ass this side of ......a desert? And Peter McGough is apparently just one person, whose opinion I choose to value less than that of Dorian himself when he said "Ronnie would probably win".

Sh!t this is the wrong thread really cos my argument for Ronnie's dominance isn't based solely on conditioning, which this thread is about. But Even with 5% worse conditioning, which was probably the case most of the time, Ronnie still had the roundness and fullness in all the areas Flex didn't, so I believe he would have beaten Dorian. But for dryness and cool intellectual approach Dorian was pretty unbeatable.

NeoSeminole

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2009, 07:23:18 AM »
Yeah, if "Jim Stoppani" said it, it must be true.  You guys selectively make conclusions about Ronnie's superiority based on certain quotes and yet ignore the quotes giving Dorian any credit.

wrong, I didn't ignore the quotes in favor of Dorian. I said the quote from Jim Stoppani cancels out the quotes claiming Dorian had the best conditioning ever.

Quote
In what I have seen, the BB "experts" seem split on Doz and Ronnie.  It's a toss up.

not really. ;)

Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder

"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."

Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49

"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."

Lonnie Teper - MD, December 2005

"I've always said that it's too hard to compare athletes of different eras (then he names a few Mr. Olympias including Dorian). Still, it's hard to imagine that anybody who's ever stepped on a bodybuilding stage could have beaten Coleman. So I reserve the right to change my mind on this one. No offense to the rest of the champs - you were/are all truly amazing physique athletes - but Coleman has really taken it to the next level, as all magnificent conquerors do."

Tony Doherty - Heavy Muscle Radio (03-16-09)

"Ronnie is the best ever. No one even comes close."

Raymond Cassar - Muscletime Editor and Photographer

"There is no one alive that can beat Ronnie Coleman when he is at his best - No One! (and his best for me was when he won the 2001 Arnold Classic)"

http://www.muscletime.com/news/contest-results/2007-mr-olympia-analysis

Steve Blechman - MD, Febrary 2004

"Ronnie perseveres and proves continually that, at his best, he is unbeatable."

Milos Sarcev - European Flex, April 2004

"Chris Lund who I consider to be a great expert in our sport of bodybuilding, told me that Ronnie is simply the best bodybuilder he has ever seen, or photographed, and he has seen everybody, during the last 35 years."

Hollis Liebman - Former Fitness Editor and IFBB Official

"The era of the big man would commence with Lee Haney (1984-1991), whose formidable torso would dominate the lineup for 8 straight years and was then elevated by Dorian Yates (1992-1997), whose back and overall conditioning upped the ante yet again until an alien named Ronnie Coleman (1998-2005), in all likelihood the greatest bodybuilder of all time, would redefine the sport bringing a near 300 pound contest ready physique to the stage."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238675.0

Royal Lion

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2009, 09:47:27 AM »
Who cares what this photographer or that editor said?  My point is that Dorian's condition was freaking unreal in the Gran Prix video.  While there are some amazing pics and vids of him, none of them put is conditioning into perspective like this. 

When he hits his front relaxed....BOOM he transforms into the most conditioned BB I have ever seen (just my subjective opinion).  And his shape is alot better than I realized as well. 

Of course there are some bad shots of him just as there are of Ronnie or any other pro for that matter.  It is hilarious how the "truce" contains these sharpened pics of Ronnie at his best hitting a most muscular compared to a far away blurred out pic of Dorian fully relaxed.  What does that prove?

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2009, 02:01:31 PM »
wrong, I didn't ignore the quotes in favor of Dorian. I said the quote from Jim Stoppani cancels out the quotes claiming Dorian had the best conditioning ever.




WRONG ! Dorian Yates IFBB judge beats anything ' Jim Stoppani ' has to say on the subject .

Iceman1981

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2009, 03:43:01 PM »
Dorian was king when it came to conditioning!  This was 1994....not even his best year! 



Good conditioning in his back, abs, calves and that's it (every year). Far from his best.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2009, 03:49:55 PM »
Good conditioning in his back, abs, calves and that's it (every year). Far from his best.

You don't know what good conditioning is.

Method101

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2009, 04:07:33 PM »
Munzer makes Dorian look soft as shit.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2009, 04:12:05 PM »
Munzer makes Dorian look soft as shit.

why? because he has more striations? that's part of great conditioning and with all things being equal striations are genetic not all people will have the same amount regardless of how dry and hard they become and you can still hold water and be striated

Royal Lion

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2009, 04:45:45 PM »
why? because he has more striations? that's part of great conditioning and with all things being equal striations are genetic not all people will have the same amount regardless of how dry and hard they become and you can still hold water and be striated

Soft as shit?  Are you joking?  Saying anyone made Doz look soft is ridiculous.  Sure, some had better shape and better volume, but no one makes this look soft as shit....

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2009, 04:50:39 PM »
Soft as shit?  Are you joking?  Saying anyone made Doz look soft is ridiculous.  Sure, some had better shape and better volume, but no one makes this look soft as shit....

This is the yardstick in which conditioned mass is measured with

NeoSeminole

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2009, 12:32:15 AM »
This is the yardstick in which conditioned mass is measured with

no silly boy, that's just genetics like you always say about every other bodybuilder who has better separations and striations than Dorian. ::)

Danimal77

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2009, 07:13:33 AM »
While Ronnie was LARGE and VASCULAR, with detail, he never had the DRY/GRAINY look Dorian had. Ronnie always looked soft, even when his veins stuck out and every muscle had its separation.

Royal Lion

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2009, 08:06:40 AM »
This is the epitome of dry, grainy conditioning.  It looks like he has no skin   :o

Dballn247

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2009, 08:23:06 AM »

That's not DOV
\

Royal Lion

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2009, 08:37:31 AM »

That's not DOV

That's a crazy shot, do doubt.  Is that 2003?  Stomach is a bit distented, but at 300 lbs that's to be expected.  I went to the O from 2002-2006...in 03 Ronnie was unreal.  When he walked out and hit is first shot everyone knew it was over.  In 2002 he looked crazy (there are some screen caps floating around) just before the contest, but came in flat the day of the show.  If Levrone had some legs then he may have taken 02.

I would love to see a peak Yates vs. a peak Ronnie.  Could go either way and would have been a great rivalry had timing allowed it.

Iceman1981

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2009, 11:16:00 AM »
You don't know what good conditioning is.

LOL, I just described what was seen by many in the video.

Not even close to his best condition. Now are you going to argue with that?

sean

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2009, 11:34:30 AM »
ronnie had undeniable more muscle and gobs of it... but dont be swayed by the effect of the smaller waist.  Yates.. better all around.

Hulkster

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #67 on: April 25, 2009, 12:26:54 PM »
Quote
That's a crazy shot, do doubt.  Is that 2003?

its from the 2001 Arnold Classic, where the idiot nuthuggers love to point out that he was 'only 247 pounds'

what they don't get is, that unlike their hero, he looked like he was about 280 because of his freaky conditioning, and freaky shape, combined with the tiny waist..dorian just had the conditioning - without the shape or taper to go along with it..
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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #68 on: April 25, 2009, 12:27:46 PM »
^
its quite clear that dorian did not attain the level of conditioning that ronnie displayed at the AC....
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Royal Lion

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #69 on: April 25, 2009, 12:35:21 PM »
^
its quite clear that dorian did not attain the level of conditioning that ronnie displayed at the AC....

It depends on what you classify as conditioning; for instance, if you equate conditioning to dryness, density, and graininess, then I'd give the nod to Doz.  However, if you equate conditioning to separation to muscle separation and volume, then I'd give the nod to Ronnie.  There is no question that Ronnie wins on separation and volume, especially from the front.  But Doz still looks drier to me.

Royal Lion

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #70 on: April 25, 2009, 12:38:50 PM »
That is one grainy MOFO

NeoSeminole

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #71 on: April 25, 2009, 12:46:12 PM »
It depends on what you classify as conditioning; for instance, if you equate conditioning to dryness, density, and graininess, then I'd give the nod to Doz.  However, if you equate conditioning to separation to muscle separation and volume, then I'd give the nod to Ronnie.  There is no question that Ronnie wins on separation and volume, especially from the front.  But Doz still looks drier to me.

here is the problem with your criteria: there is no way to qualify "dryness" or "density" unless you use visual cues like separations and striations. I might as well make up my own criteria for conditioning and use it to claim that Ronnie surpassed Dorian.

Hulkster

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #72 on: April 25, 2009, 12:46:59 PM »
It depends on what you classify as conditioning; for instance, if you equate conditioning to dryness, density, and graininess, then I'd give the nod to Doz.  However, if you equate conditioning to separation to muscle separation and volume, then I'd give the nod to Ronnie.  There is no question that Ronnie wins on separation and volume, especially from the front.  But Doz still looks drier to me.

no one has ever shown more striations/seperation by being less conditioned.

advantage: ronnie. he had better conditioning than dorian attained, at least at the 2001 AC and possibly a few other contests during 98/99..



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NeoSeminole

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #73 on: April 25, 2009, 12:48:56 PM »
good conditioning



better conditioning ;)


Royal Lion

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Re: Dorian had Unmatched Conditioning!
« Reply #74 on: April 25, 2009, 12:56:09 PM »
I am not making up my own criteria to base conditioning on.  Dryness and density play a huge role and are JUDGING criteria, not just mine. 

No one is disputing that Ronnie is more separated (from the front especially) -- I think that is based on his genetics and the shape of his muscle bellies. 

For example, Flex had some of the craziest separation and tie-ins ever....even when he wasn't in his best condition, he would look more separated than competitors in better condition.  So just because Ronnie has fuller muscle bellies and better tie-ins DOES NOT mean he is in better condition than DOZ.

I will say that 2001 MM shot of Ronnie is absolutely insane.  I wish he would have stayed at that weight!