Moral high ground?

[Soul Crusher]

I have no idea about your sources. 

whatever they might be, I still think thart pouring water over a terrorists head is a small price to pay for saving lives. 

[The True Adonis]

I have no idea about your sources. 

whatever they might be, I still think thart pouring water over a terrorists head is a small price to pay for saving lives. 

What are your thoughts on this:
5. Being against the concept of torture is not sympathizing with terrorism.  I doubt anyone could make a case that John Mccain is a terrorist sympathizer.

[Soul Crusher]

What are your thoughts on this:
5. Being against the concept of torture is not sympathizing with terrorism.  I doubt anyone could make a case that John Mccain is a terrorist sympathizer.

He is the last person who can give an unbiased opinion on this matter.

[The True Adonis]

He is the last person who can give an unbiased opinion on this matter.

Why?

[Soul Crusher]

What are your thoughts on this:
5. Being against the concept of torture is not sympathizing with terrorism.  I doubt anyone could make a case that John Mccain is a terrorist sympathizer.

That is his opinion.  What happened to McCain was not done to KSM.

We treated KSM far better than McCain was treated. 

[Dan-O]

This issue is so played out.  Pouring water over a known terrorist's head is not what I consider torture.  Hooking a car battery up to their nards might be.  Or shoving bamboo under their fingernails.

But honestly--I'm losing any sleep over alleged "mistreatment" of terrorists.  As has been pointed out already--they're beheading our people, constantly plotting new and innovative ways of killing as many westerners as possible, they don't play by any rules.  I have no problem with causing a terrorist a little bit of discomfort if it means saving thousands of American lives.

[Dos Equis]

This issue is so played out.  Pouring water over a known terrorist's head is not what I consider torture.  Hooking a car battery up to their nards might be.  Or shoving bamboo under their fingernails.

But honestly--I'm losing any sleep over alleged "mistreatment" of terrorists.  As has been pointed out already--they're beheading our people, constantly plotting new and innovative ways of killing as many westerners as possible, they don't play by any rules.  I have no problem with causing a terrorist a little bit of discomfort if it means saving thousands of American lives.

I agree. 

[Decker]

What are your thoughts on this:
5. Being against the concept of torture is not sympathizing with terrorism.  I doubt anyone could make a case that John Mccain is a terrorist sympathizer.

You have done some good work in this thread.

America does not torture.  It's in our Constitution and in our laws and traditions.

People watch 24 and get all worked up over the hollywood elites portrayl of torture as effective.  As you pointed out, it is not a good system for collecting information.  That's been proven time and again.

What the torture supporters point out as 'just pouring water over someone's face' is a misdirection.

Beach Bum says waterboarding isn't torture.  That's cool.  Federal Law would disagree with him but hey, he may also not believe that shooting someone to death in the back of the head isn't murder.

Why waterboard if it produces no viable information?

Why?  B/c guys like Beach Bum might think it's the tough thing to do or the cool thing to do or something of the like.

I'm not really sure.  They are just sure that it's not torture therefore we should do it...for some reason...they never say why.

I mean we're just waterboarding ragheads, who cares?

[Soul Crusher]

The CIA report directly reported that they stopped an attack on Los Angeles and got KSM through waterboarding.

Additionally, murder is not the same thing as pouring water over someones' head.

[Decker]

The CIA report directly reported that they stopped an attack on Los Angeles and got KSM through waterboarding.

Additionally, murder is not the same thing as pouring water over someones' head.

No the CIA did not report that.  ONe guy reported that.  These 'plots' were AQ wetdreams that never got out of the fantasy stage.

Of course we could have verified this if the torture video tapes had not been accidentally destroyed by the CIA.

"It is inaccurate ... to say that Abu Zubaydah had been uncooperative," Soufan wrote. "Under traditional interrogation methods, he provided us with important actionable intelligence." [NYT, April 23, 2009]

As I said before, this guy spilled the beans on stuff we already knew before he was even waterboarded.

[Dos Equis]

You have done some good work in this thread.

America does not torture.  It's in our Constitution and in our laws and traditions.

People watch 24 and get all worked up over the hollywood elites portrayl of torture as effective.  As you pointed out, it is not a good system for collecting information.  That's been proven time and again.

What the torture supporters point out as 'just pouring water over someone's face' is a misdirection.

Beach Bum says waterboarding isn't torture.  That's cool.  Federal Law would disagree with him but hey, he may also not believe that shooting someone to death in the back of the head isn't murder.

Why waterboard if it produces no viable information?

Why?  B/c guys like Beach Bum might think it's the tough thing to do or the cool thing to do or something of the like.

I'm not really sure.  They are just sure that it's not torture therefore we should do it...for some reason...they never say why.

I mean we're just waterboarding ragheads, who cares?

Whaaat?  What are you talking about dude?  Where did I ever say "it's the tough thing to do or cool thing to do or something of the like"? 

[Dan-O]

Whaaat?  What are you talking about dude?  Where did I ever say "it's the tough thing to do or cool thing to do or something of the like"? 

I'll say it--I fully support pouring water on the faces of terrorists.

Geeze, Decker, Adonis, et al...  come on...  CIA operatives carry out assassinations and other covert missions all the time which amount to far worse than waterboarding.  Cite me the federal law that says it's illegal to pour water on a terrorist's face.

[Decker]

Whaaat?  What are you talking about dude?  Where did I ever say "it's the tough thing to do or cool thing to do or something of the like"? 

I'm speculating to the antecedents of you idea that torture is valid for some reason. 

It doesn't work as information extraction methodology and it's illegal.

There must be some other reason you tout torture.

[Soul Crusher]

I'm speculating to the antecedents of you idea that torture is valid for some reason. 

It doesn't work as information extraction methodology and it's illegal.

There must be some other reason you tout torture.

Just because you say it does not work does not make it true.

[Dos Equis]

I'm speculating to the antecedents of you idea that torture is valid for some reason. 

It doesn't work as information extraction methodology and it's illegal.

There must be some other reason you tout torture.

Speculate all you want.  Like I've repeatedly said on this board, I do not care one bit if we pour water over the heads of suspected terrorists if it saves American lives.  It apparently does.  I'm all for it.  It's unfortunate you care more about suspected terrorists than American citizens. 

[marcus]

Why do we need to be morally correct by ending water boarding when fighting people who aren't morally correct?

[tonymctones]

It is not enough for me because I am against the entire concept of torture in all instances.  As an Atheist, I find it morally wrong.  I do understand that Christianity and Islam do permit this type of treatment and I think this gives justification for some to see it as an acceptable practice. 

We should not regress in our ideals, ever.

ok well i know this may seem like a dumb question but what constitutes torture in your mind?

I dont think religion or lack of it has anything to do with this issue, i think its more of a question of ideology or realism like i said earlier ideology is great but in reality there are times when you following them will hurt more then help.

[Decker]

ok well i know this may seem like a dumb question but what constitutes torture in your mind?

I dont think religion or lack of it has anything to do with this issue, i think its more of a question of ideology or realism like i said earlier ideology is great but in reality there are times when you following them will hurt more then help.

It doesn't matter what I think torture is.  The federal statute lays the definition out.  There never was any legitimate controversy about 'what constitutes torture'.

That was bullshit from the beginning.  We always knew.  It only became an issue when the torturers were exposed and tried to cover their asses.

Typical criminal scum.

[Decker]

Speculate all you want.  Like I've repeatedly said on this board, I do not care one bit if we pour water over the heads of suspected terrorists if it saves American lives.  It apparently does.  I'm all for it.  It's unfortunate you care more about suspected terrorists than American citizens. 

You pad one fraudulent concept with another. 

Waterboarding has killed.

Waterboarding has not saved one american life.

Waterboarding is illegal.

Waterboarding is counterproductive to interrogation.

All I have to ask is, why do you think waterboarding is the way to go?  The burden is on you.  Your the one advocating the crime against humanity...not me.

[tonymctones]

It doesn't matter what I think torture is.  The federal statute lays the definition out.  There never was any legitimate controversy about 'what constitutes torture'.

That was bullshit from the beginning.  We always knew.  It only became an issue when the torturers were exposed and tried to cover their asses.

Typical criminal scum.

LOL nice side step, i didnt ask what torture was to you, under the law what is torture youre a lawyer so you probably would have a better chance of finding that?

[headhuntersix]

If u honestly think u know the full story here, ur mistaken.

[Decker]

LOL nice side step, i didnt ask what torture was to you, under the law what is torture youre a lawyer so you probably would have a better chance of finding that?

What the hell are you talking about?  Here's your exact quote:

ok well i know this may seem like a dumb question but what constitutes torture in your mind?

Why do you waste my time?

[tonymctones]

What the hell are you talking about?  Here's your exact quote:

Why do you waste my time?

go back and look that was actually a response to ADONIS, why do you waste all of our time?

[Decker]

go back and look that was actually a response to ADONIS, why do you waste all of our time?

1. I'm not Adonis

2.  You asked me the question directly in print.

What the hell are you trying to say?  That you never asked?  That your response to Adonis somehow affects your direct question of my opinion of torture?

[tonymctones]

1. I'm not Adonis

2.  You asked me the question directly in print.

What the hell are you trying to say?  That you never asked?  That your response to Adonis somehow affects your direct question of my opinion of torture?

adonis's views stem from his moral viewpoint I.E. what torture is to him?

Your views stem from law I.E. what the law defines torture as? get it ding bat

go back and look bro the original post you quoted me in was a quote meant for adonis not you...