building the beast !!!

[Stavios]

You will have some joint pain if it is real stuff.  Elbow, wrists.

my wrist and fingers have been hurting a bit since a few weeks.

I am on hgh since febuary

[abc123]

my wrist and fingers have been hurting a bit since a few weeks.

I am on hgh since febuary

Does your face bloat on HGH?  Mine does and it's annoying.

[Stavios]

Does your face bloat on HGH?  Mine does and it's annoying.

yeah it bloats quite a bit !

but I naturally have a baby face, even onstage I have big cheeks

[abc123]

yeah it bloats quite a bit !

but I naturally have a baby face, even onstage I have big cheeks

I wish there was something that could be done about that.  I suppose just lowering the dose is the only option.

[muscle19]

abc, how much gh you taking?

[Stavios]

weight is up to 214 right now, it filled me out quite nicely !

now muscle gaining time ! 

[abc123]

abc, how much gh you taking?

To understand the dose you need to know the type of GH.  It's Omnitrope by Sandoz, not Generic.

Right now I'm taking 4 IU per day as a maintainance dose.  If I can't get the water retention in my face under control by drinking more water, eating less sodium and cleaning up my diet a bit, I will probably drop it to 3IU.   I've gone as high as 8 or 9 IUs per day when trying to grow.

[Stavios]

did you notice a difference in lean gains when upping the HGH ?

a lot of dudes over at MD swear by 10iu a day but they all take generic too

[abc123]

did you notice a difference in lean gains when upping the HGH ?

a lot of dudes over at MD swear by 10iu a day but they all take generic too

Keep in mind that 10iu of generic is probably equal to 6-7 iu of pharma.  At least that's what I've heard.  I have a friend that's been taking GH for YEARS and he say's growth starts at around 7iu+ with pharma quality stuff.  Based on my experinence that seems true.

Yes, I did notice significant lean gains. Once I added the GH into the mix there was a noticable increase in synergy between with the GH, Humalog, T3 and anabolics.   I had used Humalog before that, but didn't get the same gains as I did by adding in the GH.    I would expect that you get the best gains the first time around with that combo.

Also, I wasn't taking anywhere near the amount of Test that you plan to take.  I was taking 500-600mg of Test and Deca, and then switched to Prop and Tren Ace the last 8 weeks.

[Stavios]

Keep in mind that 10iu of generic is probably equal to 6-7 iu of pharma.  At least that's what I've heard.  I have a friend that's been taking GH for YEARS and he say's growth starts at around 7iu+ with pharma quality stuff.  Based on my experinence that seems true.

Yes, I did notice significant lean gains. Once I added the GH into the mix there was a noticable increase in synergy between with the GH, Humalog, T3 and anabolics.   I had used Humalog before that, but didn't get the same gains as I did by adding in the GH.    I would expect that you get the best gains the first time around with that combo.

Also, I wasn't taking anywhere near the amount of Test that you plan to take.  I was taking 500-600mg of Test and Deca, and then switched to Prop and Tren Ace the last 8 weeks.

yeah usually off-season I do only test so the doses are pretty high.

I did 6iu slin this morning with the same amount of carbs, everything went fine.
7iu tonight, we will see how it goes

I think I can go to 10iu with the same amount of carbs

[Stavios]

im gonna try gh soon. idk how much im getting, anywhere between 2 and 6 kits. if i get 2 i think ill just run 5iu per dayy... but if i get more ill do 10iu per day

you should try like 3iu a day for 3 months, I don't know why but apparently after 3 months you can up the dosage and get great results.

but for the first 3 months you will have the same results with 3 or 6iu

maybe someone can explain why, but from my own experience it seems true also

[Stavios]

what were you results after your firstt three months

nothign much, skin got much much better looking

that's pretty much it !

I don't know if it really helped fat loss that much, I started so fat that it was hard to evaluate

[abc123]

yeah usually off-season I do only test so the doses are pretty high.

I did 6iu slin this morning with the same amount of carbs, everything went fine.
7iu tonight, we will see how it goes

I think I can go to 10iu with the same amount of carbs

You may be able to stay at the current carb level, but just keep in mind that you expend different amounts of energy each time you train, depending on intensity, etc.  So, your current carbs may work one day, but not the next day, when you have a very hard long workout. 

I gave you the 20iu guidlines for # of carbs in your pre and during shake.  To be safe, you should extrapolate that backwards to figure out how many carbs you will need at 10iu.  However, in the beginning I would shoot for a little higher than the target carb level just in case you are more sensitive than others.  Once you get to your optimum slin dose, you can start to gradually decrease the carbs to find out what your minimum requirement is....make sense?

One other thing.  You seem scared to eat too many carbs.  Keep in mind that with a superphysialogical dose of insulin you will be able to eat more carbs around your workout than ever before because the glucose is crammed into your muscles beyond what you could natually handle.  Basically you can store more glycogen than otherwise possible.  So, don't be afraid of the carbs.

[Stavios]

You may be able to stay at the current carb level, but just keep in mind that you expend different amounts of energy each time you train, depending on intensity, etc.  So, your current carbs may work one day, but not the next day, when you have a very hard long workout. 

I gave you the 20iu guidlines for # of carbs in your pre and during shake.  To be safe, you should extrapolate that backwards to figure out how many carbs you will need at 10iu.  However, in the beginning I would shoot for a little higher than the target carb level just in case you are more sensitive than others.  Once you get to your optimum slin dose, you can start to gradually decrease the carbs to find out what your minimum requirement is....make sense?

One other thing.  You seem scared to eat too many carbs.  Keep in mind that with a superphysialogical dose of insulin you will be able to eat more carbs around your workout than ever before because the glucose is crammed into your muscles beyond what you could natually handle.  Basically you can store more glycogen than otherwise possible.  So, don't be afraid of the carbs.

yeah it's not that I am afraid of the carbs, I am just afraid to get fat !!

so I try to stay at 4000 calories a day for the next 2 weeks, if I see I am not getting smooth I will up the carbs and slin !

[Stavios]

whats the diet?


at 400 cals per day...even if you ate 400g protei and 100g fat.... you still could eat 375 carbs...

stavy id shoot for like 300 protein, low fat as possible (try to get under 50 grams), and do like 600g carbs.

Ok here is my exact diet !


8h am meal 1: 2 whole grain bagel
           2 scoops protein
           2 tbsp nut oil

11h30 am meal 2: SHAKE 100gr carbs, 90gr proteins

1h30 meal 3 (45 min after first workout): 8 oz chicken
                                                1 cup rice
                                                green veggies

4h30pm meal 4: shake 100gr carbs, 90gr proteins

6h30pm meal 5: same as meal 3

11h30 pm meal 6 (just before going to bed): 8 oz salmon
                                              salad
                                              2 tbsp extra virgin olive oil



I take the fats as far as the slin as I can

this is a 4060 calories diet

[abc123]

Ok here is my exact diet !


8h am meal 1: 2 whole grain bagel
           2 scoops protein
           2 tbsp nut oil

11h30 am meal 2: SHAKE 100gr carbs, 90gr proteins

1h30 meal 3 (45 min after first workout): 8 oz chicken
                                                1 cup rice
                                                green veggies

4h30pm meal 4: shake 100gr carbs, 90gr proteins

6h30pm meal 5: same as meal 3

11h30 pm meal 6 (just before going to bed): 8 oz salmon
                                              salad
                                              2 tbsp extra virgin olive oil



I take the fats as far as the slin as I can

this is a 4060 calories diet

Once you get your slin a little higher, I'd shoot for 400p, 400c, 75f.  80% of those carbs should be in the pre, during, and post workout shakes and solid meal 45 minutes later (oatmeal or barley and egg whites).  The rest of the day should consist of lean protein, low gycemic carbs (beans for example), very fibrous veggies and tablespoon of EFAs. 

[Stavios]

thanks for your help abc !!

[muscle19]

stavios, whats you training split like? you train twice per day?

[shrek]

im curious about the carbs howcome so high? is that for a bulking diet? i know if i eat that much i start to look bloated and gain fat all over the body except legs arms

[theworm]

stav... what do you do for a living???

how can you spend thousands and thousands on gear and train all day?

also, how much do you spend per year on roids?  40 grand?

[Stavios]

stav... what do you do for a living???

how can you spend thousands and thousands on gear and train all day?

also, how much do you spend per year on roids?  40 grand?

WHAT

are you kidding me ?

1g test a week = 30$
insulin = 30$ for a 10ml bottle that lasts forever

yeah I am rich 

and I don't train all day, those are short training sessions

1 in my lunch, 1 after work

[Stavios]

im curious about the carbs howcome so high? is that for a bulking diet? i know if i eat that much i start to look bloated and gain fat all over the body except legs arms

that's for a clean bulk

[io856]

stav... what do you do for a living???

how can you spend thousands and thousands on gear and train all day?

also, how much do you spend per year on roids?  40 grand?

hahahaha?

wtf are you paying for gear LOL... 

[muscle19]

stav doesnt use alot of gear, and maybe spends 2-300 a month on gh (maybe more) 1000g test per wk isnt expensive at all and slin, that shit will last ages! for the guys who spend tons of money on gear, sorry to hearyour wasting your money lol

[Stavios]

stav doesnt use alot of gear, and maybe spends 2-300 a month on gh (maybe more) 1000g test per wk isnt expensive at all and slin, that shit will last ages! for the guys who spend tons of money on gear, sorry to hearyour wasting your money lol

yop, nothing very expensive exept the hgh !

I made the maths and I actually spend less on AAS than what my friends spend at the bars

and I get something out of it !