Author Topic: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!  (Read 17228 times)

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2009, 11:27:18 AM »
what was the difference in body fat in the end?


This is Duck: Pretty similar in the beginning, but as the diet progressed and lower BF% were attained, the HIT cardio session seemed to maintain BF%loss at a better rate with less muscle and strength loss,  compared to the two others (low intensity cardio was a disaster for strenght, energy and muscle). The biggest difference were seen when the diet process had been ongoing for a long time and a very low BF% was attained, the HIT cardio seemed to play a pretty big role here. For some reason, the overall well being on the diet while doing HIT cardio was also quite a bit better than not doing it.

I need to revisit the old data to make more accurate percentage estimates, but the fat loss must have been at least 25-35+% (depending on the phase in the diet) better with less loss in strength and muscle mass. Again, especially at the end of a long diet, it really worked. For one of the HIT cardio diet periods, strength actually increased in conjunction with a more powerlifting based program, although this diet was not taken into the very low BF%.
All these numbers are based on caliper measurements, weight logs and daily dieting with a gram weight for months at the time. The data must still be taken with a grain of salt, as more accurate methods of measurement should have been used to get very valid + reliable data, plus what works for THE DUCK might not work well for other people. I have always been very explosive, always ran the fastest, jumped the highest in class ect without any direct training on it.
Compared to HIT cardio, the low intensity cardio diets were an absolute failure with less fat loss, and a lot more loss of muscle/power, and overall energy was in the toilet after the sessions, which made my obsession with the queen of sciences (my pussy) very hard to maintain. HIT cardio actually "gave" me power it felt like.

One note: The HIT cardio sessions were H.A.R.D. Puking was iminent many times, and after a session I had to lie down, and the entire body was aching severely. (but after this initial period of exaustion, the energy level really went up and other types of work could be done.)
I was given a study by a professional in the field that found that HIT cardio that showed that it did not work well without the body being pushed to its limit, and that you had to be in really good shape to be able to push your body into these territories in the first place.

One point: In the non HIT cardio rounds (especially the "only weights") the calories had to be reduced quite a lot to maintain the targeted weightloss, but in the HIT cardio rounds the weight loss were more consistent while not reducing calories much. Hit cardio was done 4 times per week then, and not in "Tabata style" (but a 12 minute program from hell on the running track).

THE DUCK can revisit the old data later and give more accurate numbers.

wavelength

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2009, 12:07:29 PM »

This is Duck: Pretty similar in the beginning, but as the diet progressed and lower BF% were attained, the HIT cardio session seemed to maintain BF%loss at a better rate with less muscle and strength loss,  compared to the two others (low intensity cardio was a disaster for strenght, energy and muscle). The biggest difference were seen when the diet process had been ongoing for a long time and a very low BF% was attained, the HIT cardio seemed to play a pretty big role here. For some reason, the overall well being on the diet while doing HIT cardio was also quite a bit better than not doing it.

I need to revisit the old data to make more accurate percentage estimates, but the fat loss must have been at least 25-35+% (depending on the phase in the diet) better with less loss in strength and muscle mass. Again, especially at the end of a long diet, it really worked. For one of the HIT cardio diet periods, strength actually increased in conjunction with a more powerlifting based program, although this diet was not taken into the very low BF%.
All these numbers are based on caliper measurements, weight logs and daily dieting with a gram weight for months at the time. The data must still be taken with a grain of salt, as more accurate methods of measurement should have been used to get very valid + reliable data, plus what works for THE DUCK might not work well for other people. I have always been very explosive, always ran the fastest, jumped the highest in class ect without any direct training on it.
Compared to HIT cardio, the low intensity cardio diets were an absolute failure with less fat loss, and a lot more loss of muscle/power, and overall energy was in the toilet after the sessions, which made my obsession with the queen of sciences (my pussy) very hard to maintain. HIT cardio actually "gave" me power it felt like.

One note: The HIT cardio sessions were H.A.R.D. Puking was iminent many times, and after a session I had to lie down, and the entire body was aching severely. (but after this initial period of exaustion, the energy level really went up and other types of work could be done.)
I was given a study by a professional in the field that found that HIT cardio that showed that it did not work well without the body being pushed to its limit, and that you had to be in really good shape to be able to push your body into these territories in the first place.

One point: In the non HIT cardio rounds (especially the "only weights") the calories had to be reduced quite a lot to maintain the targeted weightloss, but in the HIT cardio rounds the weight loss were more consistent while not reducing calories much. Hit cardio was done 4 times per week then, and not in "Tabata style" (but a 12 minute program from hell on the running track).

THE DUCK can revisit the old data later and give more accurate numbers.

Interesting because I have to admit that I have never tried HIT cardio for a cut. Maybe I'll try on my next cut. In any case, my ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss could not become a lot higher than with my current method. On my last cut I barely lost any muscle mass and also increased strength on some exercises.

I would still be very interested in studies. Duck's experience seems to be legit but the question is how dependent it is on all the unknown factors. What do you mean by low BF values (when the difference became noticable)?

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2009, 01:29:50 PM »
Interesting because I have to admit that I have never tried HIT cardio for a cut. Maybe I'll try on my next cut. In any case, my ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss could not become a lot higher than with my current method. On my last cut I barely lost any muscle mass and also increased strength on some exercises.

I would still be very interested in studies. Duck's experience seems to be legit but the question is how dependent it is on all the unknown factors. What do you mean by low BF values (when the difference became noticable)?



This is Duck: As the methods of measurement were not as reliable as they could have been with advanced equipment, my findings could have been a result of unknown factors, so take these findings with a grain of salt.
Update after checking up a bit: Noticeable after a few weeks on the diet. Especially noticeable from about 14%.
More important: Progress on a diet tends to be best in the beginning, and then it might slow down a little over time. The HIT cardio seemed to counteract this effect.

Another interesting tidbit is that HIT cardio seems to help me maintain mental focus better under strong physical stress, for example when training combat sports.

wavelength

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2009, 01:36:28 PM »


This is Duck: As the methods of measurement were not as reliable as they could have been with advanced equipment, my findings could have been a result of unknown factors, so take these findings with a grain of salt.
Update after checking up a bit: Noticeable after a few weeks on the diet. Especially noticeable from about 14%.
More important: Progress on a diet tends to be best in the beginning, and then it might slow down a little over time. The HIT cardio seemed to counteract this effect.

Another interesting tidbit is that HIT cardio seems to help me maintain mental focus better under strong physical stress, for example when training combat sports.

Say thanks to duck for the great info. :)

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #79 on: May 11, 2009, 01:42:17 PM »
Say thanks to duck for the great info. :)


Why are you talking to this Duck bitch? Debussey knows that Duck = still a fat fuck and .... EEEEEEEEW she smells! :-X

Deicide

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2009, 01:46:08 PM »

Why are you talking to this Duck bitch? Debussey knows that Duck = still a fat fuck and .... EEEEEEEEW she smells! :-X

Duck and Debussey both are fat weaklings... :-X
I hate the State.

ironneck

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2009, 01:46:51 PM »
boom shake shake shake the room

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2009, 01:47:26 PM »
Duck and Debussey both are fat weaklings... :-X


Yes! But Duck sure has some power in those hooks as Debussey has become keenly aware of :-X :'(


She still smells! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW :-X

Deicide

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2009, 01:52:43 PM »
boom shake shake shake the room

Maul halten und Doener servieren!
I hate the State.

ironneck

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2009, 01:54:01 PM »
Maul halten und Doener servieren!


you'Re walking on fucking thin ice billy zane

wavelength

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2009, 01:55:46 PM »

Why are you talking to this Duck bitch? Debussey knows that Duck = still a fat fuck and .... EEEEEEEEW she smells! :-X

Well based on my experience, I will still have to stick to my opinion for now. In my case, it can't really provide much of a difference anyway, my ratio of fat loss / muscle loss was close to 10 on my last cut without any cardio.

Rules might change below 8% for me though, I don't know that yet.

In any case, I fully agree to all the other potential benefits of (HIT) cardio and really can see no reason not to do cardio other than being a lazy fuck who likes to sit his ass down in the recliner and drink a few glasses of wine instead. :D

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2009, 01:57:53 PM »
Well based on my experience, I will still have to stick to my opinion for now. In my case, it can't really provide much of a difference anyway, my ratio of fat loss / muscle loss was close to 10 on my last cut without any cardio.

Rules might change below 8% for me though, I don't know that yet.

In any case, I fully agree to all the other potential benefits of (HIT) cardio and really can see no reason not to do cardio other than being a lazy fuck who likes to sit his ass down in the recliner and drink a few glasses of wine instead. :D

Dammit, you are in love with Duck, aren't ya? This is the longest love letter you have written to her so far >:(


This is the LAST time Debussey will allow that filthy whore to write anything besides Debussey's dictated posts for months. That bitch won't see the light of day any more >:(

wavelength

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2009, 01:59:52 PM »
Dammit, you are in love with Duck, aren't ya? This is the longest love letter you have written to her so far >:(

How do you know that?
Debussy doesn't have to know everything. :-*

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2009, 02:01:31 PM »
How do you know that?
Debussy doesn't have to know everything. :-*


Gary Busey told Debussey to watch out. Duck is getting all girly and shit, and her masculinity = diminishing. She wears her old ballerina dress more often these days >:(

All thanks to you :-X


Deicide

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2009, 02:08:10 PM »
How do you know that?
Debussy doesn't have to know everything. :-*

Herr, ich beuge mich Eurem Willen!
I hate the State.

wavelength

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #90 on: May 11, 2009, 02:17:35 PM »
Herr, ich beuge mich Eurem Willen!

then watch this ;D




Samourai Pizzacat

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #91 on: May 11, 2009, 02:26:19 PM »
Cardio has been shown to increase metabolic rest rate, increasing effectiveness during a cut, Ill  dig up some studies and articles when I have the time.
The health benefits of cardio are so valuable that I would advise no cut without cardio. Now the lower you get in BF the lower your calory intake will have to be to avoid having to do catabolic amounts of cardio.

Cardio>eating less

Red Hook

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #92 on: May 11, 2009, 05:26:30 PM »
I don't see how wave can cut his calories that low and function normally let alone lift with any intensity. Duck mentions doing HIT cardio to the point of throwing up, um..no thanks. Why not pop an ECA and do target heart rate cardio?

Right now I am trying keto with slow cardio, this just happens to be the wedding season as well BBQ and weekend drinking time. So it goes without saying that I am not having much success.

•sent from my iPhone.
I

Deicide

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #93 on: May 11, 2009, 05:28:23 PM »
I don't see how wave can cut his calories that low and function normally let alone lift with any intensity. Duck mentions doing HIT cardio to the point of throwing up, um..no thanks. Why not pop an ECA and do target heart rate cardio?

Right now I am trying keto with slow cardio, this just happens to be the wedding season as well BBQ and weekend drinking time. So it goes without saying that I am not having much success.

•sent from my iPhone.

Both are extemists. Wavelength is extremely lazy and Duck is manically obsessive/hardcore. Both are to be admired because both have great, ripped physiques...
I hate the State.

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #94 on: May 11, 2009, 05:29:06 PM »
I don't see how wave can cut his calories that low and function normally let alone lift with any intensity. Duck mentions doing HIT cardio to the point of throwing up, um..no thanks. Why not pop an ECA and do target heart rate cardio?

Right now I am trying keto with slow cardio, this just happens to be the wedding season as well BBQ and weekend drinking time. So it goes without saying that I am not having much success.

•sent from my iPhone.


This is Duck: Different folks, different strokes. HIT cardio works best when you go all out, and I like the potential for gaining mental toughness and enhanched sports performance when accepting pain to achieve a goal.

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #95 on: May 11, 2009, 05:30:10 PM »
Both are extemists. Wavelength is extremely lazy and Duck is manically obsessive/hardcore. Both are to be admired because both have great, ripped physiques...


This is Duck: I'm still a fat bitch at 215 pounds (down from 500 pounds at the highest), but at least I'm not like that little scrawny dipshit Debussey :o

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #96 on: May 11, 2009, 05:39:21 PM »

This is Duck: I'm still a fat bitch at 215 pounds (down from 500 pounds at the highest), but at least I'm not like that little scrawny dipshit Debussey :o

Ignore Duck. She is just pissed off because she sucks.

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #97 on: May 11, 2009, 05:40:18 PM »
Ignore Duck. She is just pissed off because she sucks.


This is Duck: Don't listen to Debussey. It is pissed off today because I refused to let him suck my tits from its wheelchair.

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #98 on: May 11, 2009, 05:41:32 PM »

This is Duck: Don't listen to Debussey. It is pissed off today because I refused to let him suck my tits from its wheelchair.


You can't stay away from Debussey's sucking power Duck. You have never been able to go more than 2 days before getting your tits manhandled by Debussey's tounge again :-*

The Master

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Re: 127% MORE MUSCLE!!
« Reply #99 on: May 11, 2009, 05:43:20 PM »

You can't stay away from Debussey's sucking power Duck. You have never been able to go more than 2 days before getting your tits manhandled by Debussey's tounge again :-*


This is Duck: You are such a boring mongoloid that I have to do SOMETHING to let time pass. Your drooling tickles when it flows down my boobs and this is the only time you can make me laugh.

If you don't behave Debussey I won't fuck you for a week >:(