Author Topic: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"  (Read 2257 times)

Meso_z

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FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« on: May 17, 2009, 02:40:45 PM »
Im talking at about 25 grams a day....

each capsule has 170mg epa and 115mg dha..

anything wrong with that?

tbombz

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2009, 02:43:51 PM »
if your trying to build muscle, then yeah theres something wrong with that.  if your trying to lose fat, not good but not bad.

benchthis

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2009, 07:51:17 PM »
Im talking at about 25 grams a day....

each capsule has 170mg epa and 115mg dha..

anything wrong with that?
fish oil in those amounts is used in psychiatry for depression and bipolar disorder dont worry about it

elite_lifter

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2009, 08:32:43 PM »
Other then the runs you should be ok.
I am a big baby

Rimbaud

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 07:13:52 AM »
Any reason for the 25 as opposed to say 10grams?

Necrosis

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 06:50:47 PM »
Im talking at about 25 grams a day....

each capsule has 170mg epa and 115mg dha..

anything wrong with that?


messed up immunity especially if your taking any other inflammation dampening supplements. Its not epically high, but it is approaching potent anti-inflammatory effects.

Princess L

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2009, 07:45:47 PM »
Any reason for the 25 as opposed to say 10grams?
Waiting for an answer....

Im talking at about 25 grams a day....

each capsule has 170mg epa and 115mg dha..

anything wrong with that?

Fish oil does have blood thinning properties. Could be an issue at those levels.......
bruising, bleeding, excessively low blood pressure, lightheadedness.....


:

suckmymuscle

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2009, 07:54:28 PM »

messed up immunity especially if your taking any other inflammation dampening supplements. Its not epically high, but it is approaching potent anti-inflammatory effects.

  Can you supply any scientific evidence whatsoever to corroborate your hypothesis that fish oil can suppress natural inflamation processes to such degree? I hardly think that a natural food would have comparable effect to a prescription antinflammatory agent, otherwise the effect would have been observed a long time ago and fish oil would be controlled. I never heard of physicians prescribing fish oil as an antinflamatory; they prescribe drugs.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Meso_z

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2009, 06:43:23 AM »
Any reason for the 25 as opposed to say 10grams?

i just follow "more is better" to be honest with you all.......thinking that its just fish oil! omegas, its healthy etc.

a while ago some guys where arguing about how vit C limits muscle gains....i mean for gods sake! it sounds rediculus....

so fish oil limits muscle growth?

tbombz

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 11:59:17 AM »
i just follow "more is better" to be honest with you all.......thinking that its just fish oil! omegas, its healthy etc.

a while ago some guys where arguing about how vit C limits muscle gains....i mean for gods sake! it sounds rediculus....

so fish oil limits muscle growth?
its definitely possible.

but you would notice a difference.


if your gaining muscle just as fast as you were gaining before you started using them - then its okay.

fish oil can limit gains because it is a potent anti inflammatory... and the muscle growtht that occurs after a workout is a result of the inflammation that occurs from a workout... more inflammatioon = more growth..less inflammation = less growth... fish oil can cause less inflammation

FREAKgeek

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2009, 01:41:55 PM »

fish oil can limit gains because it is a potent anti inflammatory... and the muscle growtht that occurs after a workout is a result of the inflammation that occurs from a workout... more inflammatioon = more growth..less inflammation = less growth... fish oil can cause less inflammation

Is this real science or just tbombz reasoning?

Necrosis

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2009, 02:37:50 PM »
  Can you supply any scientific evidence whatsoever to corroborate your hypothesis that fish oil can suppress natural inflamation processes to such degree? I hardly think that a natural food would have comparable effect to a prescription antinflammatory agent, otherwise the effect would have been observed a long time ago and fish oil would be controlled. I never heard of physicians prescribing fish oil as an antinflamatory; they prescribe drugs.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


then you would be wrong and not up on the literature. What difference does it make what a doctor prescibes. Fish oil is magnitudes better then statins on a number of levels. lovostatin was is a derivative of red yeast rice, so there goes your reasoning that a natural food has a drug like effect. Some minerals are drugs ::)

high dose fish oil produces an aids like immune response at extreme doses. It would also depend on what type of inflammation is present as different drugs/supps effect different pro inflammatory cytokines. Tnf-alpha inhibitors for IBD, whild COX-2 for arthritis. For arterio/atherosclerosis and various forms of vascular inflammation fish oil is better then prescription drugs like statins and beta blockers etc in reducing all causes of mortality and ischemic events. With far less side effects and more beneficial effects such as improved mood, memory, skin health, fat loss etc.. in a cost/benefit analysis fish oil wins

I have posted these studies probably 4 times now with people challenging my claim everytime. The exact same studies. Actually looking at them, they are different and more recent.

1: Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2007 Dec;28(6):875-80.Links
Why fish oils may not always be adequate treatments for depression or other inflammatory illnesses: docosahexaenoic acid, an omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid, induces a Th-1-like immune response.Maes M, Mihaylova I, Kubera M, Bosmans E.
Clinical Research Center for Mental Health, Antwerp, Belgium. crc.mh@telenet.be

BACKGROUND: We have shown that a depletion of omega3 polysaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) plays a role in the pathophysiology of depression, in part because omega3 PUFAs have anti-inflammatory effects. omega3 PUFAs are frequently employed to treat depression. Most if not all antidepressants have negative immunoregulatory effects by decreasing the production of proinflammatory cytokines, such as interferon-gamma (IFNgamma) and/or increasing that of anti-inflammatory cytokines, such as interleukin10 (IL-10). AIM: The aim of the present study was to examine the immunoregulary effects of the omega3 PUFAs, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), and the omega6 PUFA, arachidonic acid (AA), on the production of interferon-gamma (IFNgamma), interleukin-10 (IL-10) and tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNFalpha). METHODS: This study examines the ex vivo effects of EPA (4.5 microM, 9 microM, 18 microM and 45 microM), DHA (1.3 microM, 3 microM, 6 microM and 13 microM) and AA (8 microM, 16 microM, 32 microM and 80 microM) on the LPS + PHA-stimulated production of IFNgamma, IL-10 and TNFalpha, and on the IFNgamma/IL-10 production ratio. Results: We found that EPA did not have any significant effects on the above cytokines. DHA significantly increased the IFNgamma/IL-10 production ratio, caused by a greater reduction in IL-10 than in IFNgamma. AA significantly decreased TNFalpha production. DISCUSSION: The results show that DHA induces a Th-1-like immune response and that AA has anti-inflammatory effects by decreasing the production of TNFalpha. Thus, the immune effects of omega3 PUFAs are not compatible with what is expected from antidepressive substances. The results of the present study show that treatment with fish oils, containing DHA, should be avoided in the treatment of depression. Toward this end, highly concentrated and pure EPA seems to be indicated.


possible immune fuckup, Il-10 is a major anti inflammatory cytokine, in fact it almost completely abolishes allergies when injected, the ratio changed for the worse here. punch in the study name and more studies come up on immune regulation and fish oil. Its a complex topic but supplementing high dose fish oil will change the general make-up of the lipid bilayer displacing AA, causing a host of good and bad effects.Search for my name and fish oil and you will see the thread i started solely on this topic about a year ago, there are three studies presented in the thread. I will assume you will challenge my other claims, so if you want evidence for those i will. Strange that you care about peer reviewed studies when you conduct studies on yourself and make broad conclusions without any controls at all, none, zero..


I can also provide references on fish oil dampening allergies and asthma, two highly inflammatory conditions, to pharmaceutical degrees as well. The dose is somewhat high. Yes the FDA will ban fish soon and label it a drug, along with its essential fats. Also all vegetables will be labeled drugs as they provide health benefits. Reservatrol which recently was compared with dexmethasone for asthma, and was just as effective will also be banned, all grapes will be ceased, red wine dried up ::)









Necrosis

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2009, 02:39:53 PM »

then you would be wrong and not up on the literature. What difference does it make what a doctor prescibes. Fish oil is magnitudes better then statins on a number of levels. lovostatin was is a derivative of red yeast rice, so there goes your reasoning that a natural food could not have a drug like effect. Some minerals are drugs ::). Some foodstuffs are drugs....... I could provide ample examples but i assume you realize that argument is moot.

high dose fish oil produces an aids like immune response at extreme doses. It would also depend on what type of inflammation is present as different drugs/supps effect different pro inflammatory cytokines. Tnf-alpha inhibitors for IBD, whild COX-2 for arthritis. For arterio/atherosclerosis and various forms of vascular inflammation fish oil is better then prescription drugs like statins and beta blockers etc in reducing all causes of mortality and ischemic events. With far less side effects and more beneficial effects such as improved mood, memory, skin health, fat loss etc.. in a cost/benefit analysis fish oil wins

I have posted these studies probably 4 times now with people challenging my claim everytime. The exact same studies. Actually looking at them, they are different and more recent.

1: Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2007 Dec;28(6):875-80.Links
Why fish oils may not always be adequate treatments for depression or other inflammatory illnesses: docosahexaenoic acid, an omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid, induces a Th-1-like immune response.Maes M, Mihaylova I, Kubera M, Bosmans E.
Clinical Research Center for Mental Health, Antwerp, Belgium. crc.mh@telenet.be

BACKGROUND: We have shown that a depletion of omega3 polysaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) plays a role in the pathophysiology of depression, in part because omega3 PUFAs have anti-inflammatory effects. omega3 PUFAs are frequently employed to treat depression. Most if not all antidepressants have negative immunoregulatory effects by decreasing the production of proinflammatory cytokines, such as interferon-gamma (IFNgamma) and/or increasing that of anti-inflammatory cytokines, such as interleukin10 (IL-10). AIM: The aim of the present study was to examine the immunoregulary effects of the omega3 PUFAs, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), and the omega6 PUFA, arachidonic acid (AA), on the production of interferon-gamma (IFNgamma), interleukin-10 (IL-10) and tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNFalpha). METHODS: This study examines the ex vivo effects of EPA (4.5 microM, 9 microM, 18 microM and 45 microM), DHA (1.3 microM, 3 microM, 6 microM and 13 microM) and AA (8 microM, 16 microM, 32 microM and 80 microM) on the LPS + PHA-stimulated production of IFNgamma, IL-10 and TNFalpha, and on the IFNgamma/IL-10 production ratio. Results: We found that EPA did not have any significant effects on the above cytokines. DHA significantly increased the IFNgamma/IL-10 production ratio, caused by a greater reduction in IL-10 than in IFNgamma. AA significantly decreased TNFalpha production. DISCUSSION: The results show that DHA induces a Th-1-like immune response and that AA has anti-inflammatory effects by decreasing the production of TNFalpha. Thus, the immune effects of omega3 PUFAs are not compatible with what is expected from antidepressive substances. The results of the present study show that treatment with fish oils, containing DHA, should be avoided in the treatment of depression. Toward this end, highly concentrated and pure EPA seems to be indicated.


possible immune fuckup, Il-10 is a major anti inflammatory cytokine, in fact it almost completely abolishes allergies when injected, the ratio changed for the worse here. punch in the study name and more studies come up on immune regulation and fish oil. Its a complex topic but supplementing high dose fish oil will change the general make-up of the lipid bilayer displacing AA, causing a host of good and bad effects.Search for my name and fish oil and you will see the thread i started solely on this topic about a year ago, there are three studies presented in the thread. I will assume you will challenge my other claims, so if you want evidence for those i will. Strange that you care about peer reviewed studies when you conduct studies on yourself and make broad conclusions without any controls at all, none, zero..


I can also provide references on fish oil dampening allergies and asthma, two highly inflammatory conditions, to pharmaceutical degrees as well. The dose is somewhat high. Yes the FDA will ban fish soon and label it a drug, along with its essential fats. Also all vegetables will be labeled drugs as they provide health benefits. Reservatrol which recently was compared with dexmethasone for asthma, and was just as effective will also be banned, all grapes will be ceased, red wine dried up ::)










Meso_z

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 03:02:03 PM »

Meso_z

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 03:05:57 PM »
So how much should be the daily safe intake of fish oil and omegas?

thanks

tbombz

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2009, 03:25:11 PM »
Is this real science or just tbombz reasoning?
real science.

camelisator

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2009, 04:19:25 PM »
Im talking at about 25 grams a day....
each capsule has 170mg epa and 115mg dha..
anything wrong with that?

Meso boy, the only thing you have to worry about is letting one rip and having to watch out for seals, sharks and other fish lovers tailgating you...

tbreastz = ignorant.

I've taken over 30g a day and outmasses him naturally by several folds.
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tbombz

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Re: FISH OIL "OVERDOSE"
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2009, 05:01:49 PM »
Meso boy, the only thing you have to worry about is letting one rip and having to watch out for seals, sharks and other fish lovers tailgating you...

tbreastz = ignorant.

I've taken over 30g a day and outmasses him naturally by several folds.
your not natural, you dont outmass me, and what i wrote about fish oil is accurate.