John Stossel Is College Worth It? 20/20 ABC News

[Deicide]

[shootfighter1]

College is way overpriced and unless people protest and grants aren't given out like water, colleges have no incentive to lower prices and cut budgets.

[PTB]

I would think it depends on the major/profession.  If you're going to spend $100,000 to learn Art History, or some Liberal Arts subject, ending up with 6-figure debt, with a bad economy, and even if you get a job, they start @ $40,000 or less, then it could be a bad deal.

However, no one can be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. w/o a degree and/or multiple degrees.  So it's going to vary based on case.
Teachers I would think would be the most controversial, since they do serve an important function, but they don't make a whole lot - at least not starting out, and like I said, you could have 6-figure debt to start with.

[Deicide]

I would think it depends on the major/profession.  If you're going to spend $100,000 to learn Art History, or some Liberal Arts subject, ending up with 6-figure debt, with a bad economy, and even if you get a job, they start @ $40,000 or less, then it could be a bad deal.

However, no one can be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. w/o a degree and/or multiple degrees.  So it's going to vary based on case.
Teachers I would think would be the most controversial, since they do serve an important function, but they don't make a whole lot - at least not starting out, and like I said, you could have 6-figure debt to start with.

Yup.

[BayGBM]

Borrowing $25,000 a year, for four years, to get a B.A. degree in Human Development from Rivier College is not worth it. 

Class dismissed.

[Dos Equis]

Education is definitely worth it.  Aside from the long-term economic advantage, it among other things changes the way you see the world, how you think, how you talk, how you interact with people.  Absolutely a worthwhile investment. 

[Deicide]

Borrowing $25,000 a year, for four years, to get a B.A. degree in Human Development from Rivier College is not worth it. 

Class dismissed.

How about Stanford or Yale?

[Soul Crusher]

How about Stanford or Yale?

Than you are borrowing 50k a year, not 25k a year. 

Still not worth it. 

[Deicide]

Than you are borrowing 50k a year, not 25k a year. 

Still not worth it. 

I agree. I just wanted to know Bay's opinion. He is very involved in university so it may be from a different angle.

[shootfighter1]

I'm not saying its not worth it.  It is worth it for persuing certain degrees or for the persuit of higher education for intelect itself.  However, when you think about taking 4 hrs of earning potential, add $50-75,000 in debts and maybe finding a decent job at some point, you have to weigh the benefits vs sacrifice.  Lots of trade jobs are paying as good and give you a skill that is always marketable.

My main point is that expenses for college is out of hand and giving grants does not help to reign in the overall costs.

[Deicide]

I'm not saying its not worth it.  It is worth it for persuing certain degrees or for the persuit of higher education for intelect itself.  However, when you think about taking 4 hrs of earning potential, add $50-75,000 in debts and maybe finding a decent job at some point, you have to weigh the benefits vs sacrifice.  Lots of trade jobs are paying as good and give you a skill that is always marketable.

My main point is that expenses for college is out of hand and giving grants does not help to reign in the overall costs.

Yeah. I hate debt. For the first time in my life I have a bit of debt for doing my MA, but it is without interest and private in nature and with the right job payable in less than a year, being aout £6000.

[Fury]

To each their own. If someone wants to spend $50k to get a degree in art history, so be it. There are thousands upon thousands of scholarships out there to help knock the cost down. Just need to look around.

[Hereford]

To each their own. If someone wants to spend $50k to get a degree in art history, so be it. There are thousands upon thousands of scholarships out there to help knock the cost down. Just need to look around.

That's the point here BF.

Because there is so much 'free money', colleges are jacking costs up sky high to the point people question the cost/benefit balance.

[Fury]

That's the point here BF.

Because there is so much 'free money', colleges are jacking costs up sky high to the point people question the cost/benefit balance.

Yeah, but most people can get enough scholarships so that the cost is significantly reduced. It's just that most kids have no interest in looking for scholarships. There are literally thousands of them out there. My roommate paid about $3k/year for his tuition and room and board because of all the scholarships and grants he had. Wasn't a super smart kid by any means, either. He just went out and got them.

[BayGBM]

Than you are borrowing 50k a year, not 25k a year. 

Still not worth it. 

No. Not worth it.  I’ve written about this before:

If your tuition bill is already paid (parents, full scholarship, etc.) then by all means go to any expensive private school you want.

If you are a person of modest means and paying your own way, the thing to do is to attend your local state college (the best one you can get into) to get your degree.  Then go to the best school you can get into for graduate work.  Most schools make you pay for Master’s level work (MA, MS, JD, MBA, etc.); the Master’s level degree is cash cow for most universities.  Most reputable schools will not accept you into a Ph.D. program unless they can fully support you with full tuition and a living stipend.  Even if you eventually drop out (half of the people who start a Ph.D. program never finish) you can still leave with a Master’s (that’s paid for).  Where appropriate, I advise my protégés to skip the Master's and apply directly to Ph.D programs.

I feel sorry for the kids in that story.  Did that girl have no one to advise her . . . a family member, older friend, mentor?  Seriously, $25,000 a year, for four years, to get a B.A. degree in "Human Development" from Rivier College?  That sounds like the plot of a comedy movie.  Unfortunately for her, it's her life and  the joke is on her. 

I have seen a lot of job advertisements for many fields of employment over the years . . . Have you ever seen a job advertisement that required applicants to have a B.A. degree in Human Development?   I haven't.

[ATHEIST]

Education is definitely worth it.  Aside from the long-term economic advantage, it among other things changes the way you see the world, how you think, how you talk, how you interact with people.  Absolutely a worthwhile investment. 

i think they have statistics to prove that also, a degree=more income.

[Deicide]

No. Not worth it.  I’ve written about this before:

If your tuition bill is already paid (parents, full scholarship, etc.) then by all means go to any expensive private school you want.

If you are a person of modest means and paying your own way, the thing to do is to attend your local state college (the best one you can get into) to get your degree.  Then go to the best school you can get into for graduate work.  Most schools make you pay for Master’s level work (MA, MS, JD, MBA, etc.); the Master’s level degree is cash cow for most universities.  Most reputable schools will not accept you into a Ph.D. program unless they can fully support you with full tuition and a living stipend.  Even if you eventually drop out (half of the people who start a Ph.D. program never finish) you can still leave with a Master’s (that’s paid for).  Where appropriate, I advise my protégés to skip the Master's and apply directly to Ph.D programs.

I feel sorry for the kids in that story.  Did that girl have no one to advise her . . . a family member, older friend, mentor?  Seriously, $25,000 a year, for four years, to get a B.A. degree in "Human Development" from Rivier College?  That sounds like the plot of a comedy movie.  Unfortunately for her, it's her life and  the joke is on her. 

I have seen a lot of job advertisements for many fields of employment over the years . . . Have you ever seen a job advertisement that required applicants to have a B.A. degree in Human Development?   I haven't.

This is sound advice. I ended up going to a good state university that I could afford without going into debt. I could have gone to a place like Columbia of Amherst but would have had so much debt, don't think it would have been worth it.

A friend of mine is head to Yale for his PhD in Comp. Lit this summer, EVERYTHING PAID FOR, nice deal.

One question Bay: why do you think so few people actually finish their PhD programmes?

[Soul Crusher]

i think they have statistics to prove that also, a degree=more income.

Thats fine, but is a B.A. degree that costs 30k worth that much less than a BA that costs 120 in the same major but different schools?   

[ATHEIST]

Thats fine, but is a B.A. degree that costs 30k worth that much less than a BA that costs 120 in the same major but different schools?   

I think it would certainly hold different credibility's. I went to a state school and have friends who went to BYU, Yale and Harvard. as an employer i would look twice at those who hold degrees from upper echelon schools, so do graduate programs.

[BayGBM]

I think it would certainly hold different credibility's. I went to a state school and have friends who went to BYU, Yale and Harvard. as an employer i would look twice at those who hold degrees from upper echelon schools, so do graduate programs.

Oh, the irony! 

[ATHEIST]

Oh, the irony! 

sorry for the sp error sheesh im working and posting at the same time.

[Cap]

One thing that is sad is the number of women spending that amount of money in college for their M.R.S. 

Seriously though, I wouldn't go to a fancy university unless I really needed to and even then I would be tempted to go the cheaper route because in the end it's all the same.

[Deicide]

One thing that is sad is the number of women spending that amount of money in college for their M.R.S. 

Seriously though, I wouldn't go to a fancy university unless I really needed to and even then I would be tempted to go the cheaper route because in the end it's all the same.

We're all dead men, none of this shit matters.

[Cap]

We're all dead men, none of this shit matters.

So true.  Fancy colleges don't mean much in the end, except for maybe grad school.  Didn't Barry go to Occidental for his undergrad?  Most employers could care less.  It's a degree; that's all that's needed.

[Al Doggity]

Most employers could care less.  It's a degree; that's all that's needed.

This is exactly the myth this report tried to explode.

If you are a person of modest means and paying your own way, the thing to do is to attend your local state college (the best one you can get into) to get your degree.  ...


I feel sorry for the kids in that story.  Did that girl have no one to advise her . . . a family member, older friend, mentor?  Seriously, $25,000 a year, for four years, to get a B.A. degree in "Human Development" from Rivier College?  That sounds like the plot of a comedy movie.  Unfortunately for her, it's her life and  the joke is on her. 

The thing is that girl appears to have followed your advice to the letter. I don't mean this to sound callous, but I suspect this girl is prone to making bad decisions and exceedingly mediocre in most categories that would help her get a job. One could make the argument that college was not right for this girl, but one could just as easily (and, perhaps, more justifiably) point to a grouping of surrealistically terrible choices that led to her current situation.

Elite colleges still carry a lot of weight with employers. I'm witness to how the school listed on your diploma can effect your career 15 years down the line on a near daily basis.