Author Topic: China and Brazil dump US dollar  (Read 2227 times)

Bindare_Dundat

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China and Brazil dump US dollar
« on: May 21, 2009, 08:12:49 AM »
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/eyeonasia/archives/2009/05/it_is_just_the.html


It is just the latest sign that China and other developing nations are increasingly ready to challenge the currency status quo.
Just before beginning his three-day visit to China, Brazilian president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva raised waves when he said he planned to continue discussions with Chinese leaders about the possibility of dumping the dollar in trade between the two countries. Instead, the Chinese Yuan and Brazilian Real would be used for transactions, significantly lowering costs for the two nations, he said. His call was echoed by a Brazilian central bank official Tuesday, who said the two countries bank governors were likely to meet soon to push forward the proposal.



SAMSON123

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2009, 05:30:21 PM »
And people still want to believe america will come out of this intact.... Russia just dropped the dollar as well.
C

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2009, 06:05:33 PM »
And people still want to believe america will come out of this intact.... Russia just dropped the dollar as well.

yeah I heard and I think posted that as well but it garnered little attention from fellow posters. I guess I should have had something about Muslims or Palin in my title, then we would have 20 pages by now. ;)


Fury

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2009, 06:20:29 PM »
yeah I heard and I think posted that as well but it garnered little attention from fellow posters. I guess I should have had something about Muslims or Palin in my title, then we would have 20 pages by now. ;)



What's there to say? None of us on here have any control over it.  ::)

You've been posting these doomsday scenarios for months now. Not one of them has come true yet.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 06:25:52 PM »
What's there to say? None of us on here have any control over it.  ::)

You've been posting these doomsday scenarios for months now. Not one of them has come true yet.


 You've had your head up muslims asses for so long you don't know what day it is.

What can you do about it, (dollar, economy)?  Lots you can do to make your situation better than the next guy who is as ignorant as yourself.

Fury

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2009, 06:30:54 PM »

 You've had your head up muslims asses for so long you don't know what day it is.

What can you do about it, (dollar, economy)?  Lots you can do to make your situation better than the next guy who is as ignorant as yourself.

Aww, looks like a struck a nerve with the ickle wickle Muslim.

Enlighten me. What can I do to prevent China and Brazil from dumping the dollar?  ::)

You and I both have zero control over how the government chooses to fix the economy. But hey, you're persistent. Batting .000 on your doomsday predictions over the last five months, though.

Will you kill yourself if the economy recovers?  ???

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 08:30:00 PM »
Aww, looks like a struck a nerve with the ickle wickle Muslim.

Enlighten me. What can I do to prevent China and Brazil from dumping the dollar?  ::)

You and I both have zero control over how the government chooses to fix the economy. But hey, you're persistent. Batting .000 on your doomsday predictions over the last five months, though.

Will you kill yourself if the economy recovers?  ???

I'll save my energy for someone less cynical and immature as you.

The ChemistV2

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2009, 08:45:26 PM »
Aww, looks like a struck a nerve with the ickle wickle Muslim.

Enlighten me. What can I do to prevent China and Brazil from dumping the dollar?  ::)

You and I both have zero control over how the government chooses to fix the economy. But hey, you're persistent. Batting .000 on your doomsday predictions over the last five months, though.

Will you kill yourself if the economy recovers?  ???
I've got this friend that does the same thing. A few months back, he said by february, there would be a cataclysmic world changing event. And that he was hoping for it..because his gold investment would allegedly go up 900%. Whenever I ask for specifics..like what this doomsday event will be about, it's always some vague meandering speech on how everything has to collapse. When I said his timetable had expired..he starts screaming in this manic high pitched tone, "You'll see..you just wait. It will happen by July..you'll see jackass! muuuhahahahhah" or some shit like that. The guy is starting to annoy me.

pedro01

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2009, 08:54:19 PM »
Oil is a worry - but ultimately - what's the issue with people dropping the dollar & it depreciating considerably ?

Dollar goes down, exports go up, real value of US overseas debt goes down, oild prices go up. Swings & roundabouts. Having a few less Indian call centres isn't a bad thing - can you imagine calling AOL & speaking to someone that really speaks English ?

If you have savings in dollars - I'd go & buy stocks - especially in US companies that export. As the dollar drops, their prices overseas will increase in dollar terms, effectively making the stock purchase an inflation hedge. Microsoft isn't actually a bad bet - about 40% of their income comes from overseas.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2009, 12:37:31 AM »
I've got this friend that does the same thing. A few months back, he said by february, there would be a cataclysmic world changing event. And that he was hoping for it..because his gold investment would allegedly go up 900%. Whenever I ask for specifics..like what this doomsday event will be about, it's always some vague meandering speech on how everything has to collapse. When I said his timetable had expired..he starts screaming in this manic high pitched tone, "You'll see..you just wait. It will happen by July..you'll see jackass! muuuhahahahhah" or some shit like that. The guy is starting to annoy me.

I've got two friends that worked in a car parts manufactring plant. I told to them to find another job because that industry was going into the shitter for a while. They now are perminatly laid off with nothing but their dick in their hand because they thought things wouldnt get that bad. 15 years of his life working for this company and he gets a smile and a hand shake.

 It's not about hoping for collpase or predicting some date, it's about knowing whats going on around you so you can be prepared, (protest, write letters, make phone calls, save your money, know where to invest, etcc),  instead of living some apathetic existance and putting hope into something or someone else to make things better, that's all.








Bindare_Dundat

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2009, 12:47:53 AM »
Oil is a worry - but ultimately - what's the issue with people dropping the dollar & it depreciating considerably ?

Dollar goes down, exports go up, real value of US overseas debt goes down, oild prices go up. Swings & roundabouts. Having a few less Indian call centres isn't a bad thing - can you imagine calling AOL & speaking to someone that really speaks English ?

If you have savings in dollars - I'd go & buy stocks - especially in US companies that export. As the dollar drops, their prices overseas will increase in dollar terms, effectively making the stock purchase an inflation hedge. Microsoft isn't actually a bad bet - about 40% of their income comes from overseas.


Would like your comment on this.


Would like your comment on this.

video at: http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/05/flagrantly-visible-hand.html

“Something strange happened during the last 7 or 8 weeks. Doreen you probably can concur on this -- there was a power underneath the market that kept holding it up and trading the futures. I watch the futures every day and every tick, and a tremendous amount of volume came in a several points during the last few weeks, when the market was just about ready to break and shot right up again. Usually toward the end of the day – it happened a week ago Friday, at 7 minutes to 4 o’clock, almost 100,000 S&P futures contracts were traded, and then in the last 5 minutes, up to 4 o’clock, another 100,000 contracts were traded, and lifted the Dow from being down 18 to up over 44 or 50 points in 7 minutes. That is 10 to 20 billion dollars to be able to move the market in such a way. Who has that kind of money to move this market?

On top of that, the market has rallied up during the stress test uncertainty and moved the bank stocks up, and the bank stocks issues secondary – they issues stock – they raised capital into this rally. It was perfect text book setup of controlling the markets – now that the stock has been issued…”

pedro01

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2009, 01:51:49 AM »
lots of contracts being traded at the end of the day is not an unusual event.

For every buyer, there was someone willing to sell, what it doesn't say below is what date or what kind of price move was made at that point or what news had been released at that point. IT also doesn't say what kind of move followed and whether this was out of ordinary. I could post up some charts if the date was clear.

Also - I think it's important to remember which is the dog & which is the tail here. The S&P and DOW are simply indices of stocks. The e-mini S&P Futures and the mini Dow Futures are futures contracts based on the delivery of cash of the future value of those indices. Right now, most are trading June contracts. No-one takes delivery of the cash - you just roll into the next contract period.

Anyway - the DOW Index is definitely the dog - not the futures.

As these are effectively bets on the DOW & S&P - it is still the STOCKS that are the market. It is extremely rare to see the futures & index go out of line - when they do, arbitrageurs come in & make a killing. Of course the futures trade almost 24 hours from Sunday evening to Friday afternoon, and the stocks don't, so futures do move outside of the market.

100,000 long futures contracts costs you very little. Let's say $2.00 per contract commission (probably less at those volumes) = $200,000. Depending on the broker - you need margin on account of perhaps $500 per contract (again probably less at those volumes) = $50,000,000 margin. For every point the S&P moves in your favour you'd gain $50 = $5,000,000 per point. S&P has a range of 10-100 points per day.

So - basically someone with $50Million placed a bet of $5 million per point on the futures - this is big money to me - but not a great deal for George Soros.

During market hours, if you wanted to move the market - wouldn't the best way be to wait for a quiet time & start buying up the components of the DOW ? there's only 30 stocks there but it's considered to be yardstick by which people gauge the markets.

Also - if this is government intervention, it does imply that someone in the US govt is more savvy than the quants & traders out there that make a living out of this. My guess is that if the US Govt made a trade like this, they'd have their pants pulled down & their asses spanked very quickly.

Or perhaps the US Government has financial people that are smarter than those in private banks & hedge funds...

pedro01

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2009, 08:38:47 AM »
Here's the S&P500 futures chart for yesterday. 1 bar = 5 minutes.

You can see the leap of volume towards the end (end time = 16:15). 40-80,000 contracts per 5 minutes at the end of the day. Typicall end & start of the day are the most frantic...

100,000 contracts is not an anomaly.


The ChemistV2

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2009, 09:00:29 AM »
I've been doing very well trading currencies. I have an automated trading program I've modified that executes trades while I sleep when certain chart parameters, that I've programmed, are hit. It's works phenomenal. My trades only last a couple of hours and are in and out by the time I wake up. The beauty of my system is my trade target is 100 points and my stop-loss is only 50. So, by winning only 50% of my trades I make great profits. I only trade one currency pair, the pound/yen, since it has fantastic volatility. I am up to trading 10 standard lots ($10,000 deposit and each point worth $100). So when it wins I wake up to $10,000.00 profit. Even if I lose 5 trades out of 10, at this rate it will make over 400k a year..so I don't care too much about stocks or anything else..plus with currency trading tax structure, capital gains are only taxed about 23%, much better than in stocks.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2009, 05:19:42 PM »
Here's the S&P500 futures chart for yesterday. 1 bar = 5 minutes.

You can see the leap of volume towards the end (end time = 16:15). 40-80,000 contracts per 5 minutes at the end of the day. Typicall end & start of the day are the most frantic...

100,000 contracts is not an anomaly.




thanks, been pretty busy but I'll look over your post in more detail later.

Slapper

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Re: China and Brazil dump US dollar
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2009, 06:09:29 PM »
I think you guys are looking at all this wrong. It's not what you can do for the dollar, it's what the dollar can do for you that matters.

I've said.