Author Topic: Official Ron Paul Sticky Thread: Henceforth All Ron Paul Stuff Here...  (Read 5780 times)

Bindare_Dundat

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Watch and learn. Listen at 5:40. Prophetic. The republican party got destroyed and only Ron had his eyes open to this fact. Again, the laughing fucks in the back.  ::)


240 is Back

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RP admitted the economy was in trouble.  Rudy and Mccain and crew refused to admit it.

Crowd loves him at these debates - and you know to be a republican at a FOX debate, you are definitely a republican.

Ron paul makes so much sense. 

*Note, you can actually hear beach Bum in the background giggling at one point

Bindare_Dundat

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*Note, you can actually hear beach Bum in the background giggling at one point

lol


The laughter really pisses me off. Just shows how ass backwards some people on that stage were.

Deicide

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I hate the State.

Hedgehog

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Reason why I am not falling for the RP hype:
Paul thinks the best way to handle the recession is - to do nothing at all.
He claims that if the government would let everything fall then the economy would recover within a year.
I think Obama is wrong in many instances and I think there are better ways to stimulate the economy than what's currently done.
But the idea of stimulus is right IMO.
Paul is also an anti-abortion/religious nut.
Paul is anti-UN. I totally disagree with that POV.
There are many issues where I think Paul is dead wrong.
All these RP fan boys seems to fall for a hype and not actually care for the actual political views of RP.
'RP is an outsider and that's awesome' seems to be the sentiment of the RP fanboys. 
As empty as paradise

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Reason why I am not falling for the RP hype:
Paul thinks the best way to handle the recession is - to do nothing at all.
He claims that if the government would let everything fall then the economy would recover within a year.
I think Obama is wrong in many instances and I think there are better ways to stimulate the economy than what's currently done.
But the idea of stimulus is right IMO.
Paul is also an anti-abortion/religious nut.
Paul is anti-UN. I totally disagree with that POV.
There are many issues where I think Paul is dead wrong.
All these RP fan boys seems to fall for a hype and not actually care for the actual political views of RP.
'RP is an outsider and that's awesome' seems to be the sentiment of the RP fanboys. 

The UN tries to dictate to the US what free speech is permitted and what is not. I think that is wrong. You conveniently fail to mention the good things like him being antiwar and anti war on drugs.

You never respond to me Igelkott. I guess you have no answers to this.
I hate the State.

Bindare_Dundat

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Reason why I am not falling for the RP hype:
Paul thinks the best way to handle the recession is - to do nothing at all.
He claims that if the government would let everything fall then the economy would recover within a year.
I think Obama is wrong in many instances and I think there are better ways to stimulate the economy than what's currently done.
But the idea of stimulus is right IMO.
Paul is also an anti-abortion/religious nut.
Paul is anti-UN. I totally disagree with that POV.
There are many issues where I think Paul is dead wrong.
All these RP fan boys seems to fall for a hype and not actually care for the actual political views of RP.
'RP is an outsider and that's awesome' seems to be the sentiment of the RP fanboys. 

What hype are you talking about?   Did you watch the debates I posted? While the rest of those tools were snickering he totally schooled them on just about every issue. Where did you think he was wrong in his responses to the war, the economy in those examples specifically? The most important issues. As far as the religious comment is concerned, could you give an instance that would make him a nut compared to any other politicians views on the subject in America? The abortion issue, I'm with you, it's a woman's choice but point to the perfect candidate. That issue is low on the list for me anyway, you? Why do you disagree with him on the UN issue, you never mention your reasons. Thanks.


Deicide

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What hype are you talking about?   Did you watch the debates I posted? While the rest of those tools were snickering he totally schooled them on just about every issue. Where did you think he was wrong in his responses to the war, the economy is those examples specifically? As far as the religious comment is concerned, could you give an instance that would make him a nut compared to any other politicians views on the subject in America? The abortion issue, I'm with you, it's a woman's choice but point to the perfect candidate. That issue is low on the list for me anyway, you? Why do you disagree with him on the UN issue, you never mention your reasons. Thanks.



Yip, yip, nothing but a peanut. ;)
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Eyeball Chambers

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Is the UN beneficial to the United States?  In any way?  ???
S

Migs

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Is the UN beneficial to the United States?  In any way?  ???

not really.

Hedgehog

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The UN tries to dictate to the US what free speech is permitted and what is not. I think that is wrong. You conveniently fail to mention the good things like him being antiwar and anti war on drugs.

You never respond to me Igelkott. I guess you have no answers to this.
Sure, RP has some good POV's as well. My post was just a reply to your question why I am no fan of Ron Paul.
Also, I responded to your question, so your statement that I don't reply is void IMO.

UN is a forum for diplomacy. Where nations get to discuss issues.
I am of the opinion that UN, while not perfect, boosts diplomacy globally.

UN is IMO a road to less war. And that is sound for the USA, both economically and militarily.

I believe in some form of universal health care plan, it's good macro economics.
Where does Ron Paul stand on that issue?
Fwiw, I think you're right on a lot of issues, especially the theological ones.
As empty as paradise

Deicide

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Sure, RP has some good POV's as well. My post was just a reply to your question why I am no fan of Ron Paul.
Also, I responded to your question, so your statement that I don't reply is void IMO.

UN is a forum for diplomacy. Where nations get to discuss issues.
I am of the opinion that UN, while not perfect, boosts diplomacy globally.

UN is IMO a road to less war. And that is sound for the USA, both economically and militarily.

I believe in some form of universal health care plan, it's good macro economics.
Where does Ron Paul stand on that issue?
Fwiw, I think you're right on a lot of issues, especially the theological ones.

The major point was that he is not perfect, no one is, especially politicians. Check the beginning of the thread for what I don't agree with.

UN

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I hate the State.

Deicide

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The True Adonis

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And now perhaps the bad side of Poop Paul:



Present scientific facts that support creationism

Q: Academic freedom is threatened when questioning the theory of evolution. An Iowa State astronomer was denied tenure because of his work in intelligent design in May 2007. Censoring alternative theories--dogmatic indoctrination--has replaced scientific inquiry. Will you encourage a more open approach to the presentation of scientific facts that contradict the theory of evolution?
HUCKABEE: Yes.
TANCREDO: Yes.
COX: Yes.
BROWNBACK: Yes.
PAUL: Yes.
HUNTER: Yes.
KEYES: Yes.
Source: [Xref Hunter] 2007 GOP Values Voter Presidential Debate Sep 17, 2007

The True Adonis

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So much for separation of Church and State and Federal Funding going to Christian Organizations.

Tax-credited programs for Christian schooling

Q: I’m 17, and I’m the product of school choice. In the public schools I repeated the 7th grade three times, because of my deficiency in math & English. My mother then sent me to New Generation, a Christian school. After one year, my math improved 5 grade levels, and my English improved 3. Will you support school choice for other students like me with similar tax-credit programs?
HUCKABEE: Yes.
TANCREDO: Yes.
COX: Yes.
BROWNBACK: Yes.
PAUL: Yes.
HUNTER: Yes.
KEYES: Yes.
Source: [Xref Keyes] 2007 GOP Values Voter Presidential Debate Sep 17, 2007

The True Adonis

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Supports a Constitutional Amendment for school prayer.

Paul co-sponsored a resolution for a School Prayer Amendment:

Proposed Legislation:
H.J.RES.52, School Prayer Amendment, 6/13/2001 (Murtha)
H.J.RES.12, School Prayer Amendment, 2/7/2001 (Emerson)
S.J.RES.1, School Prayer Amendment, 1/22/2001 (Thurmond)
H.J.RES.108, Voluntary School Prayer Amendment, 9/21/2000 (Graham)
H.J.RES.55, Voluntary School Prayer Amendment, 2/13/1997 (Stearnes, Hall, Watts)
H.J.RES.78, Amendment Restoring Religious Freedom, 5/8/1997 (Istook, et. al.)
Source: H.J.Res.78 97-HJR78 on May 8, 1997

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Ron Paul: "No" on Rosa Parks, "Yes" on Homophobic Organizations
Readers of this site may remember our article on the Rosa Parks medal of honor, where we analyzed and debunked Ron Paul's reasons for voting against it. The RonPaulogists made several claims defending his position, claiming that it was would have been paid for in tax dollars (an outright lie), and that it was completely unconstitutional (unfounded, and contradicted by history).

So how, then, does this same group defend Ron Paul's vote on H.R. 5872:, also known as "Boy Scouts of America Centennial Commemorative Coin Act"? This bill entails the following:

Boy Scouts of America Centennial Commemorative Coin Act - Directs the Secretary of the Treasury to mint and issue up to 350,000 $1 coins in commemoration of the centennial of the founding of the Boy Scouts of America.
Requires the coin design to be emblematic of the 100 years of the organization.
Restricts issuance of such coins to February 8 through December 31, 2010.
Subjects coin sales to a surcharge of $10 per coin.
Requires payment of such surcharges to the National Boy Scouts of America Foundation, to be made available to local councils in the form of grants for the extension of Scouting in hard-to-serve areas
Where exactly does the U.S. Constitution (Ron Paul Edition) give Congress the authority to issue commemorative coins to the Boys Scouts of America, when it apparently doesn't give Congress the authority to issue Rosa Parks a self-funded medal of honor? In fact, H.R. 5872 goes one step further than the Rosa Parks Medal does. Not only do the boy scouts get a coin made in their honor, but they also receive a sizable chunk of the proceeds in hard cash, of up to $3,500,000. Meanwhile, Ron Paul cried foul at the thought of awarding Rosa Parks with a gold medal that would have cost less than 1% of that amount. In fact, Ron Paul not only voted in favor of this bill, but he is also listed as a co-sponsor.

The RonPaulogists would frequently defend Ron Paul by pointing out that he claims respects her. It's a pretty literal translation of prefacing an insult with the phrase, "With all due respect." It smacks of insincerity. Ron Paul voted against giving a congressional medal of honor to Rosa Parks, a civil rights hero who greatly furthered the cause of equal rights. And yet, he has absolutely no problem co-sponsoring a federal fund raiser the Boy Scouts of America, an organization with a long history of outright discrimination against atheists, agnostics, and gays. Their group bylaws even includes a "Declaration of Religious Principle," where all members must swear to recognize God as the "ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members."

It's time to call the Ron Paul's tendency to shield his beliefs behind the constitution for what it really is: An outright fraud. There is absolutely no constitutional basis that could explain Ron Paul's inconsistency on these two issues. None. The only thing that is consistent is the fact that he'll support groups that promote blatant discrimination, while opposing groups that attempt to promote equality. What's the term for that?


The True Adonis

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Ron Paul clarifies his positions on Church and State
Ron Paul, the OB/GYN who recently flip flopped on evolution, has recently solidified his position on the role of religion in government. In case you aren't sure, he's in favor of it. This comes from Kade, a senior member from the Ron Paul Forums, who writes the following:

Official Campaign Message to Facebook Users:

Question: What role should the personal faith of a President play in his/her decision-making?


Ron Paul

Position: It should play a strong role


"Like the Founding Fathers, the core of my political philosophy is grounded in the knowledge that rights come from the Creator, not the government. Since rights do not come from the gov't, the gov't cannot violate those rights. Religion has a very important role to play in a limited gov't philosophy."
Ron Paul's basic point seems to be that the will of God should trump the will of government. The difference is this: We have people who can speak on behalf of government, and who can hold government accountable. Who gets to speak on behalf of God? Who holds God accountable? Jesus? The Pope? Ron Paul himself? I, for one, see absolutely no room for abuse from this guiding ideology.

Kade goes on to say that he has written several candidates about their views on atheists in the government. Barack Obama, John McCain, Dennis Kucinich, and Rudy Giuliani have all sent letters, and Barack Obama even went so far as to send him a personal reply. But no letter from Ron Paul. This should come as no surprise to anyone who read up on Ron Shank's attempt to get an honest response on Ron Paul's views on evolution.

Needless to say, the Ron Paul Internet Gestapo hasn't responded very well to this posting, where you now need to enter a password just to access it. Fortunately, you can still find it on Google Cache, although I have no idea for how long. A screen shot of the posting can be found below.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_N7kXk1D1GmU/R3HITKZPjMI/AAAAAAAAABY/dqJAwuCzQc4/s1600-h/kade_churchstate_1.jpg

The True Adonis

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Ron Paul Flip Flops on Evolution
It turns out that despite being a medical doctor for the past forty years, Ron Paul does not accept the theory of evolution. Ron Paul made this revelation at a rally last November, which can now be found on youtube:










This is a drastic flip flop from last May, when all the republican candidates were asked for their views on the subject. Just so that there was no room for confusion, a blogger by the name of Ron Shank even wrote into the Ron Paul campaign, and received the following response:

Ron Paul did not raise his hand during that question, it was Tancredo, Huckabee & Brownback who raised their hands. Dr. Paul is physician and believes in evolution.
Apparently, we can't really trust Ron Paul on the subject of medical science, or frankly, any science at all. We can't trust Ron Paul to place empirical evidence and observation over basic ideology. We also can't trust Ron Paul to support the separation of church and state, and to keep his religion views out of science class. But apparently, we can't even trust Ron Paul to be honest about what Ron Paul actually believes, nor can we trust his campaign when asked point blank about it.

Which only begs the question. What can we trust Ron Paul on?

Bindare_Dundat

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From one of your heros. Listen to how fast he answers.


The True Adonis

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http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/wrong_paul.html

Wrong Paul
February 11, 2008
Fantasy, fallacy and factual fumbles from the Republican insurgent.

Summary
Ron Paul doesn't have much of a chance of winning the Republican nomination, but he persists with his well-funded campaign and even talks of turning it into a permanent "Revolution" that will continue far beyond 2008.

We've given his statements little attention until now. But here we look at some of his more outlandish claims:
Paul claims that a secret conspiracy composed of the Security and Prosperity Partnership and a cabal of foreign companies is behind plans to build a NAFTA Superhighway as the first step toward creating a North American Union. But the NAFTA Superhighway that Paul describes is a myth, and the groups supposedly behind the plans are neither secret nor nefarious.
Paul says that the U.S. spends $1 trillion per year to maintain a foreign empire and suggests that we could save that amount by cutting foreign spending. Paul gets that figure by including a lot of domestic programs that he isn't planning to cut, like the U.S. Border Patrol and interest payments on the debt.
Paul has run television ads touting an endorsement from Ronald Reagan, but he fails to mention that, in 1988, Paul wanted "to totally disassociate" himself from the Reagan administration.

Analysis
Ron Paul’s candidacy is something of an enigma. His impressive fundraising and his legions of dedicated volunteers suggest that he could be among the front-runners in contention for the Republican nomination. Yet his national poll numbers hover consistently just above the margin of error, and on Super Tuesday, he finished last in 17 of 21 contests, including California, where he lost to a candidate who had already withdrawn from the race. He admits he has little hope of winning the nomination.

"Ron Paul" is the most searched term on our site, and until recently, those searches revealed only that Paul had participated in a whole lot of Republican debates. We applied our efforts to candidates with odds of becoming the nominee.

Yet Paul says he will not drop out of the race, and indeed talks of a perpetual campaign. In a message to his followers Feb. 8, he said:
Paul: If I may quote Trotsky of all people, this Revolution is permanent. It will not end at the Republican convention. It will not end in November. It will not end until we have won the great battle on which we have embarked.
So, given the ardency of Paul’s supporters and the scores of e-mails requesting that we write about him, we decided to take a look at Paul’s claims. Here’s some of what we found.

Paging Fox Mulder

According to Paul, a secret organization run by unaccountable government figures is in league with foreign corporations who are all bent on usurping American sovereignty. That's not from the script for a new X-Files movie. (Or not that we know of.) It's the gist of Paul's description of a supposed "NAFTA Superhighway." Paul describes it on his Web site as "a ten-lane colossus the width of several football fields, with freight and rail lines, fiber-optic cable lines, and oil and natural gas pipelines running alongside." And that's not all. According to Paul, the ultimate plan is to form a North American Union with a single currency and unlimited travel within its borders, all headed up by "an unholy alliance of foreign consortiums and officials from several governments" that together form the shadowy "quasi-government organization called the ‘Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America,’ or SPP."

The problem with Paul's claim is that there are no plans to build a NAFTA Superhighway. Or a North American Union, for that matter. And while the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America does exist, it’s just a boring bureaucracy.

Like many conspiracy theories, this one is a mixture of fact and fiction. improvements to existing roads, but is not lobbying for, or planning to build, any new thoroughfares. From the NASCO That scary-looking map, with lines that rumor suggested were drawn to scale, is the product of an actual group called North America's SuperCorridor Organization (NASCO), which is a consortium of public and private entities. But contrary to conspiracy theorists, the map does not show a new highway. Those bright blue lines show only I-35 and I-29 – interstates that already exist. On its Web site, NASCO says it and some of the local governments along I-35 have been referring to that route as the "NAFTA Superhighway" for years. NASCO advocates Web site:
NASCO: "NAFTA Superhighway" - As of late, there has been much media attention given to the "new, proposed NAFTA Superhighway". NASCO and the cities, counties, states and provinces along our existing Interstate Highways 35/29/94 (the NASCO Corridor) have been referring to I-35 as the 'NAFTA Superhighway' for many years, as I-35 already carries a substantial amount of international trade with Mexico, the United States and Canada. There are no plans to build a new NAFTA Superhighway - it exists today as I-35.
In terms of new roads, there are, in fact, plans for a Trans-Texas Corridor, a road that would be (in spots) several football fields wide. And the road would be financed by a private company (which is partially Spanish-owned) that would then charge tolls to recoup its investment. But the TTC was approved by the Texas Legislature and the governor of Texas. It is a state initiative, but it is not part of a NAFTA Superhighway, nor is it the product of a shadowy federal conspiracy.

Indeed, Ian Grossman, a spokesman with the Federal Highway Administration told the Los Angeles Times, "There is no such superhighway like the one [Paul is] talking about. It doesn't exist, in plans or anywhere else."
 
The other parts of the conspiracy are much the same. The SPP – that "quasi-government organization" – is really an actual government organization, organized through the White House. According to David Bohigian, an assistant secretary of commerce, the SPP is a bureaucratic dialog staffed by mid-level officials from the U.S., Canada and Mexico who work to synchronize customs, security and regulations. "Simple stuff," Bohigian told The Nation last August, "like, for instance, in the U.S. we sell baby food in several different sizes; in Canada, it's just two different sizes." Not exactly cloak-and-dagger stuff.

The SPP has a factsheet on its Web site that attempts to put to rest all the tall tales surrounding it. And if that isn’t enough, the Washington Post’s Fact Checker, Newsweek and the urban legend site Snopes.com all have previously debunked this particular bit of conspiracy-theorizing.

Of course, maybe they’re all in on it, too.

About That Trillion Dollar Empire

In debates, Paul has claimed the U.S. spends a trillion dollars on a "foreign operation" each year to maintain an "empire":
Paul (Jan. 30): So, yes, this money should be spent back here at home. We have a $1 trillion foreign operation to operate our empire. That's where the money is. You can't keep borrowing from China. You can't keep printing the money.
One should be suspicious of this number right away. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects total spending for the current fiscal year to be about $2.9 trillion. President Bush's proposed fiscal 2009 budget would top $3 trillion for the first time. In fiscal 2008, a total of almost $1.8 trillion goes to mandatory spending on programs like Medicare and Social Security and to interest on the debt. That leaves just under $1.1 trillion in total discretionary spending, of which $572 billion goes to defense spending. Even if we called the entire defense budget an overseas cost of maintaining an empire – and then kicked in the entire $50.6 billion budget for the State Department and international programs – Paul is still $378 billion short.

When we asked the Paul campaign for some documentation for the $1 trillion claim, it directed us to an opinion piece by a fellow at the libertarian-leaning Independent Institute. The article argues that in 2006, the U.S. actually spent just under $1 trillion on defense. To arrive at that figure, the study included a number of items that one might generally not think of as defense spending, including the Department of Homeland Security, the State Department, one-third of the funding for the FBI and half of NASA’s funding. The numbers also include medical and retirement pay for veterans and a large portion of interest on the debt.

So it turns out that what Paul says is a trillion dollars for a "foreign operation" includes a lot of things that seem pretty domestic to us. For example:
The entire U.S. Border Patrol
Every military base in the United States and all the 1.4 million full-time military personnel (not just those serving overseas)
Background checks for new immigrants
Inspections of incoming cargo
All airport security programs
The issuing of U.S. passports
The FBI's counter-terrorism unit
92 percent of the interest payments on the national debt
Obviously Paul isn't advocating defaulting on U.S. Savings Bonds or doing away with border security, or even closing all U.S. embassies overseas. But that makes it all the more misleading for him to suggest that cutting out this "foreign operation" could save $1 trillion per year.

A Flipper on the Gipper

Ron Paul Ad
"The Only One"

Narrator: Who among these men has never supported a tax increase? Never supported an unbalanced budget? Never supported wasteful government spending?

Narrator: Congressman Ron Paul: The taxpayer’s best friend.

Narrator: We need to keep him fighting for our country.

Ron Paul: I’m Ron Paul and I approve this message.
In a recent television ad titled "The Only One," Paul claims to be the only candidate never to vote for a tax increase, pass an unbalanced budget or support wasteful government spending. The ad closes with the narrator saying, "We need to keep him fighting for our country." The words are attributed to Ronald Reagan. Paul uses a longer version of the quotation on his Web page:

From Ron Paul Web site: “Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first.” – Ronald Reagan

Paul's embrace of Reagan's legacy represents a significant change of heart. Actually, it's the second time that Paul has changed his mind about Reagan. After endorsing Reagan for president in 1976 and again in 1980, Paul became disenchanted, leaving the Republican party in 1987. The following year, he told the Los Angeles Times:
Paul (May 10, 1988): The American people have never reached this point of disgust with politicians before. I want to totally disassociate myself from the Reagan Administration.
Paul's disaffection started early in Reagan's presidency. "Ronald Reagan has given us a deficit 10 times greater than what we had with the Democrats," Paul told the Christian Science Monitor in 1987. "It didn't take more than a month after 1981, to realize there would be no changes."

Sometime between 1988 (during Paul's run for the presidency on the Libertarian Party ticket) and 1996 (when Paul, running as a Republican once more, successfully ousted an incumbent House member in a GOP primary), Paul once again embraced Reagan's legacy. The New York Times reported then that Paul had used the longer version of the Reagan quote in a videotape sent to 30,000 households. According to the Times, Reagan’s former attorney general, Edwin Meese III, flew to Texas "to insist that Mr. Reagan had offered no recent endorsements."

We were unable to document Reagan's endorsement of Paul. When we asked the Paul campaign for documentation, a spokesperson told us that the campaign was "a little more focused on positive things." The Paul campaign did not provide the Times with a date for the quotation in 1996, either.

Introduction to Logic

We close with a final point, though this one is directed at Ron Paul supporters. Recently, we’ve received a barrage of e-mail containing variations on this theme: "Am I to assume that by making no mention of Rep. Ron Paul in your synopses of GOP candidates, you found his statements meritorious?" The similarities between the messages led to a bit of searching, and we found what we suspect is the cause: A post at DailyPaul.com alleges that because the author found no instances where we called out Paul for misstatements, "FactCheck.org shows that Ron Paul is truthful."

We realize that DailyPaul.com is not officially affiliated with Paul’s campaign. But the error is egregious enough that it merits discussion. Here’s the basic argument from DailyPaul:
If FactCheck.org writes about a candidate, then that candidate makes some inaccurate claims.
FactCheck.org has not written about Ron Paul.
Therefore Ron Paul does not make inaccurate claims.
That argument might sound appealing, but, in fact, it is a logical fallacy (philosophers call this one "denying the antecedent"). Consider a different argument that has exactly the same logical structure:
If it is Thursday, then I have to go to work.
It is not Thursday.
Therefore I do not have to go to work.
We wouldn't recommend trying that argument out on your boss – unless, of course, you have a job that requires you to work only on Thursdays. And that’s the problem with the DailyPaul.com argument. It works only to the extent that you assume that we write about every single inaccurate claim uttered by every single political candidate. We don’t. We just hadn't gotten around to mentioning many Ron Paul flubs.

We’ve corrected that oversight now.

-by Joe Miller
Sources
Braun, Stephen. "Paul Believes in Threat of North American Superhighway." Los Angeles Times, 30 Nov. 2007.

Clymer, Adam. "The Race for Congress: Texas' 14th District; Under Fire, a G.O.P. Convert Wins Party's Fierce Loyalty." New York Times, 8 April 1996.

CNN. "Election Center 2008: Primaries and Caucuses, Florida Results." CNN Politics. 30 Jan. 2008. 4 Feb. 2008.

Congressional Budget Office. "The Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2008 - 2012." January 2008. Congressional Budget Office. 31 Jan. 2008.

Dobbs, Michael. "A 'Superhighway' to Nowhere." 3 Dec. 2007. Washington Post: The Fact Checker. 30 Jan. 2008.

"FactCheck.org Shows Ron Paul is Truthful." 27 Jan. 2008. DailyPaul.com. 4 Feb. 2008.

Hayes, Christopher. "The NAFTA Superhighway." 9 Aug. 2007. The Nation. 11 Feb. 2008.

Higgs, Robert. "The Trillion-Dollar Defense Budget Is Already Here." 15 March 2007. The Independent Institute. 31 Jan. 2008.

"H.B. 3588." 2 June 2003. Texas Legislature Online. 11 Feb. 2008.

Kennedy, J. Michael. "Politics 88; Hopeless Presidential Race; Libertarian Plods on -- Alone and Unheard." Los Angeles Times, 10 May 1988.

Kovach, Gretel C. "Highway to Hell?" 10 Dec. 2007. Newsweek. 30 Jan. 2008.

LaFranchi, Howard. "Ron Paul; In Former Congressman, Libertarians Think Party Has Best Candidate Ever." The Christian Science Monitor 29 Sept. 1987.

North America SuperCorridor Coalition Inc. "NASCO Speaks Out." NASCOcorridor.com. 11 Feb. 2008.

"North American Union." 8 Jan. 2008. Snopes.com. 30 Jan. 2008.

Office of Management and Budget. "Department of State and Other International Programs." Jan. 2007. Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 2008. 4 Feb. 2008.

Office of Management and Budget. "Table 27–1. Budget Authority and Outlays by Function, Category, and Program." 4 Feb. 2008. Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 2009. 5 Feb. 2008.

Office of Management and Budget. "Table S–1. Budget Totals." 5 Feb. 2008. Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 2009. 11 Feb. 2008.

Paul, Ron. "The NAFTA Superhighway." 31 Oct. 2006. Ron Paul 2008. 30 Jan. 2008.

"Republican Presidential Nomination." 3 Feb. 2008. Real Clear Politics. 5 Feb.y 2008.

"SPP Myths vs Facts." January 2008. Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America. 30 Jan. 2008.

The True Adonis

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http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/four_pinocchios_for_ron_paul.html


Four Pinocchios for Ron Paul

Ron Paul in his Concord, NH, headquarters.

"I lean toward a flat tax. But I want to make it real flat, like zero."

--Ron Paul, Jay Leno show, October 31, 2007.
"Could America exist without an income tax? The idea seems radical, yet in truth America did just fine without a federal income tax for the first 126 years of her history."

--Ron Paul website.


Responding to pleas by Ron Paul supporters to take their man seriously, I devoted a post last week to his plan to abolish the federal income tax, which provides Uncle Sam with $1.2 trillion in annual revenue. Paul's policy director, Joseph Becker, said he would get back to me with pie charts and other data, demonstrating how a President Paul would achieve this seemingly miraculous feat. I have now received the Paul Campaign response, which I am posting in full below, so that readers can better understand the intellectual rigor underpinning the Texas Congressman's ideas.


The Facts

Before giving the floor to the Paul team, let us review the state of the debate. During an October 31 appearance on the Jay Leno show, the Republican candidate said that he would abolish the IRS and introduce a "zero" flat tax on the incomes of U.S. citizens. He told Leno that the abolition of the income tax would leave the federal government with roughly the revenues it was able to gather in 2000, before the overseas adventures of the Bush years.

This seemed too good to be true, and it was. Without the revenues from individual income tax, the federal budget would shrink to the size it was in the early 1990s, not the year 2000. The discretionary share of the federal budget--the money the government spends on defense, the federal bureaucracy, the environment, education, and health--would dwindle to zero. All remaining federal revenues would be earmarked for mandatory entitlement spending such as social security--which Paul has said he would not touch--and interest on debt.

The following graph provides a breakdown of the $2.6 trillion in revenues collected by the federal government in financial year 2007. (I got the figures from the Final Monthly Treasury Statement for September 2007.) It shows that income tax accounted for roughly 45 percent of the total, not 33 percent, as Paul claims on his website. The next largest chunk--34 percent--comes from social security taxes. Customs and excise duties--which formed the bulk of federal revenues in the pre-1913 period which Paul praises so highly--account for less than four per cent of total revenue.


The next graph shows outlays. If Paul is going to get rid of the federal income tax, he will have to find $1.2 trillion in savings on today's budget. He says he will not take this money from social security. Instead he will focus on the "costs of empire." But even if he pulled all U.S. troops back home from Iraq and Afghanistan ($152 billion), abolished the entire foreign aid budget, ($22 billion), got rid of the State Department, ($6 billion), and withdrew from the United Nations, ($2 billion), he would only save around $180 billion. If he stopped all federal spending on education and ended agricultural price subsidies, as he has also proposed, he might save another $100 billion.

That's still a long way from $1.2 trillion.


So how will Paul perform the miracle? Drum roll, please, for Paul campaign spokesman Jesse Benton. Here is his full, unedited, response to my request for data to support the candidate's claims about abolishing the income tax:

"Over half of federal government revenue presently comes from sources other than the personal income tax. Policy wonks can go back and forth arguing over budget specifics. The point Dr. Paul was making, during an interview on an entertainment program, is that we can eliminate the income tax and fund a level of government from the recent past. Whether that year is 1995, 1997 or 2000 is irrelevant. These levels are of course statically scored. Real world dynamic scoring would drive revenues substantially higher. A Paul administration would not be able to end the IRS on January 29th, 2009. President Paul would work with Congress to phase out the income tax and cut budgets to sensible, constitutional levels, focusing foremost on eliminating hundreds of billions of dollars of excessive overseas expenditures."
So that's it, folks. It will all be done through "real world dynamic scoring." Don't worry about the details. Just keep the faith and repeat the mantra.

The Pinocchio Test

Prior to receiving the Paul campaign's response, I was beginning to develop a soft spot for the Paulites. Judging from their comments on this blog, they combine passion with good manners, and enjoy a good debate. They have posed some great questions about America's core principles and values that deserve serious attention. But I am disappointed by Paul's refusal to provide factual and analytical support for his sweeping policy proposals. By failing back on incomprehensible jargon and disdaining "budget specifics," he loses the argument by default.

The doctor's figures just don't add up.

The True Adonis

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10 Reasons Not to Vote for Ron Paul

Posted by SummerDecember 9, 2007
As anyone with a blog, YouTube account, MySpace page, or web site knows Ron Paul supporters are everywhere! The internet is filled with them. Although we are a progressive blog and both William and I support Democratic candidates, vocally, we are constantly barraged with pleas and “stories” to win us over. The frightening thing that I have witnessed is that many liberal voters are giving some credence to Ron Paul’s campaign and message. He somehow comes across as different or better than the run of the mill conservatives filling the Republican ticket.
I do not support Ron Paul in ANY and I find his Congressional record and policies to be, at times, even scarier than his counterparts. The only thing that I have found to agree with him on is the fact that he does not support the war in Iraq. After extensive research I have compiled a list of 10 reasons NOT to vote for Ron Paul!
Ron Paul does not value equal rights for minorities. Ron Paul has sponsored legislation that would repeal affirmative action, keep the IRS from investigating private schools who may have used race as a factor in denying entrance, thus losing their tax exempt status, would limit the scope of Brown versus Board of Education, and would deny citizenship for those born in the US if their parents are not citizens. Here are links to these bills: H.R.3863, H.R.5909, H.J.RES.46, and H.J.RES.42.
Ron Paul would deny women control of their bodies and reproductive rights.Ron Paul makes it very clear that one of his aims is to repeal Roe v. Wade. He has also co sponsored 4 separate bills to “To provide that human life shall be deemed to exist from conception.” This, of course, goes against current medical and scientific information as well as our existing laws and precedents. Please see these links: H.R.2597 and H.R.392
Ron Paul would be disastrous for the working class. He supports abolishing the Federal minimum wage, has twice introduced legislation to repeal OSHA, or the Occupational Safety and Health Act and would deal devastating blows to Social Security including repealing the act that makes it mandatory for employees of nonprofits, to make “coverage completely optional for both present and future workers”, and would “freeze benefit levels”. He has also twice sponsored legislation seeking to repeal the Davis-Bacon Act and the Copeland Act which among other things provide that contractors for the federal government must provide the prevailing wage and prohibits corporate “kick backs.” Here are the related legislative links: H.R.2030, H.R.4604, H.R.736, and H.R.2720
Ron Paul’s tax plan is unfair to lower earners and would greatly benefit those with the highest incomes.He has repeatedly submitted amendments to the tax code that would get rid of the estate and gift taxes, tax all earners at 10%, disallow income tax credits to individuals who are not corporations, repeal the elderly tax credit, child care credit, earned income credit, and other common credits for working class citizens. Please see this link for more information: H.R.05484 Summary
Ron Paul’s policies would cause irreparable damage to our already strained environment. Among other travesties he supports off shore drilling, building more oil refineries, mining on federal lands, no taxes on the production of fuel, and would stop conservation efforts that could be a “Federal obstacle” to building and maintaining refineries. He has also sought to amend the Clean Air Act, repeal the Soil and Water Conservation Act of 1977, and to amend the Federal Water Pollution Control Act to “restrict the jurisdiction of the United States over the discharge of dredged or fill material to discharges into waters”. To see for yourself the possible extent of the damage to the environment that would happen under a Paul administration please follow these links: H.R.2504, H.R.7079, H.R.7245, H.R.2415, H.R.393, H.R.4639, H.R.5293, and H.R.6936
A Ron Paul administration would continue to proliferate the negative image of the US among other nations. Ron Paul supports withdrawing the US from the UN, when that has not happened he has fought to at least have the US withdrawn from the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization. He has introduced legislation to keep the US from giving any funds to the UN. He also submitted that the US funds should not be used in any UN peacekeeping mission or any UN program at all. He has sponsored a bill calling for us to “terminate all participation by the United States in the United Nations, and to remove all privileges, exemptions, and immunities of the United Nations.”Ron Paul twice supported stopping the destruction of intercontinental ballistic missile silos in the United States. He also would continue with Bush’s plan of ignoring international laws by maintaining an insistence that the International Criminal Court does not apply to the US, despite President Clinton’s signature on the original treaty. The International Criminal Court is used for, among other things, prosecution of war crimes. Please see the following links: H.R.3891, H.AMDT.191, H.AMDT.190, H.R.3769, H.R.1665, H.CON.RES.23, and H.R.1154
Ron Paul discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation and would not provide equal rights and protections to glbt citizens. This is an issue that Paul sort of dances around. He has been praised for stating that the federal government should not regulate who a person marries. This has been construed by some to mean that he is somewhat open to the idea of same sex marriage, he is not. Paul was an original co sponsor of the Marriage Protection Act in the House in 2004. Among other things this discriminatory piece of legislation placed a prohibition on the recognition of a same sex marriage across state borders. He said in 2004 that if he was in the Texas legislature he would not allow judges to come up with “new definitions” of marriage. Paul is a very religious conservative and though he is careful with his words his record shows that he is not a supporter of same sex marriage. In 1980 he introduced a particularly bigoted bill entitled “A bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955 A direct quote from the legislation “Prohibits the expenditure of Federal funds to any organization which presents male or female homosexuality as an acceptable alternative life style or which suggest that it can be an acceptable life style.” shows that he is unequivocally opposed to lifestyles other than heterosexual.
Ron Paul has an unnatural obsession with guns. One of Paul’s loudest gripes is that the second amendment of the constitution is being eroded. In fact, he believes that September 11 would not have happened if that wasn’t true. He advocates for there to be no restrictions on personal ownership of semi-automatic weaponry or large capacity ammunition feeding devices, would repeal the Gun-Free School Zones Act (because we all know our schools are just missing more guns), wants guns to be allowed in our National Parks, and repeal the Gun Control Act of 1968. Now, I’m pretty damn certain that when the Constitution was written our founding fathers never intended for people to be walking around the streets with AK47’s and “large capacity ammunition feeding devices.” (That just sounds scary.) Throughout the years our Constitution has been amended and is indeed a living document needing changes to stay relevant in our society. Paul has no problem changing the Constitution when it fits his needs, such as no longer allowing those born in the US to be citizens if their parents are not. On the gun issue though he is no holds barred. I know he’s from Texas but really, common sense tells us that the amendments he is seeking to repeal have their place. In fact, the gun control act was put into place after the assassinations of JFK, Martin Luther King, and Robert Kennedy. Please view the following links: H.R.2424, H.R.1897, H.R.1096, H.R.407, H.R.1147, and H.R.3892.
Ron Paul would butcher our already sad educational system. The fact is that Ron Paul wants to privatize everything and that includes education. Where we run into problems is that it has been shown (think our current health care system) that this doesn’t work so well in practice. Ron Paul has introduced legislation that would keep the Federal Government “from planning, developing, implementing, or administering any national teacher test or method of certification and from withholding funds from States or local educational agencies that fail to adopt a specific method of teacher certification.” In a separate piece of legislation he seeks to “prohibit the payment of Federal Education assistance in States which require the licensing or certification of private schools or private school teachers.” So basically the federal government can’t regulate teaching credentials and if states opt to require them for private schools they get no aid. That sounds like a marvelous idea teachers with no certification teaching in private schools that are allowed to discriminate on the basis of race. He is certainly moving forward with these proposals!Remember his “bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955? Guess what? He basically advocates for segregation in schools once again. It “Forbids any court of the United States from requiring the attendance at a particular school of any student because of race, color, creed, or sex.” Without thinking about this statement it doesn’t sound bad at all. But remember, when desegregating schools that this is done by having children go to different schools, often after a court decision as in Brown Vs. Board of Education. If this were a bill that passed, schools would no longer be compelled to comply and the schools would go back to segregation based on their locations. Ron Paul is really starting to look like a pretty bigoted guy don’t you think?
Ron Paul is opposed to the separation of church and state. This reason is probably behind every other thing that I disagree with in regards to Paul’s positions. Ron Paul is among those who believes that there is a war on religion, he stated “Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view.” (( Koyaanisqatsi Blog: Wrong Paul Why I Do Not Want Ron Paul to be My President )) Though he talks a good talk, at times, Ron Paul can’t get away from his far right, conservative views. He would support “alternative views” to evolution taught in public schools (i.e. Intelligent Design.) We’ve already taken a look at his “bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955 Besides hating the gays he takes a very religious stance on many other things. He is attempting to force his beliefs on the rest of America, exactly what he would do as president.
So there you have it, my 10 reasons not to vote for Ron Paul. Please take the time to thoroughly review the records of the people running for office so you know where they really stand. Ron Paul has good rhetoric and he opposes the war but he’s not a good man in the human rights sense of the phrase. He is pretty much like every other Republican but more insidious. Here is a video that you should watch after reading this article. Really listen to what he says and how he says it. Watch out for the sneaky ones and RESEARCH! (( Orcinus: Ron Paul’s Record in Congress )



Hugo Chavez

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10 Reasons Not to Vote for Ron Paul

Posted by SummerDecember 9, 2007
As anyone with a blog, YouTube account, MySpace page, or web site knows Ron Paul supporters are everywhere! The internet is filled with them. Although we are a progressive blog and both William and I support Democratic candidates, vocally, we are constantly barraged with pleas and “stories” to win us over. The frightening thing that I have witnessed is that many liberal voters are giving some credence to Ron Paul’s campaign and message. He somehow comes across as different or better than the run of the mill conservatives filling the Republican ticket.
I do not support Ron Paul in ANY and I find his Congressional record and policies to be, at times, even scarier than his counterparts. The only thing that I have found to agree with him on is the fact that he does not support the war in Iraq. After extensive research I have compiled a list of 10 reasons NOT to vote for Ron Paul!
Ron Paul does not value equal rights for minorities. Ron Paul has sponsored legislation that would repeal affirmative action, keep the IRS from investigating private schools who may have used race as a factor in denying entrance, thus losing their tax exempt status, would limit the scope of Brown versus Board of Education, and would deny citizenship for those born in the US if their parents are not citizens. Here are links to these bills: H.R.3863, H.R.5909, H.J.RES.46, and H.J.RES.42.
Ron Paul would deny women control of their bodies and reproductive rights.Ron Paul makes it very clear that one of his aims is to repeal Roe v. Wade. He has also co sponsored 4 separate bills to “To provide that human life shall be deemed to exist from conception.” This, of course, goes against current medical and scientific information as well as our existing laws and precedents. Please see these links: H.R.2597 and H.R.392
Ron Paul would be disastrous for the working class. He supports abolishing the Federal minimum wage, has twice introduced legislation to repeal OSHA, or the Occupational Safety and Health Act and would deal devastating blows to Social Security including repealing the act that makes it mandatory for employees of nonprofits, to make “coverage completely optional for both present and future workers”, and would “freeze benefit levels”. He has also twice sponsored legislation seeking to repeal the Davis-Bacon Act and the Copeland Act which among other things provide that contractors for the federal government must provide the prevailing wage and prohibits corporate “kick backs.” Here are the related legislative links: H.R.2030, H.R.4604, H.R.736, and H.R.2720
Ron Paul’s tax plan is unfair to lower earners and would greatly benefit those with the highest incomes.He has repeatedly submitted amendments to the tax code that would get rid of the estate and gift taxes, tax all earners at 10%, disallow income tax credits to individuals who are not corporations, repeal the elderly tax credit, child care credit, earned income credit, and other common credits for working class citizens. Please see this link for more information: H.R.05484 Summary
Ron Paul’s policies would cause irreparable damage to our already strained environment. Among other travesties he supports off shore drilling, building more oil refineries, mining on federal lands, no taxes on the production of fuel, and would stop conservation efforts that could be a “Federal obstacle” to building and maintaining refineries. He has also sought to amend the Clean Air Act, repeal the Soil and Water Conservation Act of 1977, and to amend the Federal Water Pollution Control Act to “restrict the jurisdiction of the United States over the discharge of dredged or fill material to discharges into waters”. To see for yourself the possible extent of the damage to the environment that would happen under a Paul administration please follow these links: H.R.2504, H.R.7079, H.R.7245, H.R.2415, H.R.393, H.R.4639, H.R.5293, and H.R.6936
A Ron Paul administration would continue to proliferate the negative image of the US among other nations. Ron Paul supports withdrawing the US from the UN, when that has not happened he has fought to at least have the US withdrawn from the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization. He has introduced legislation to keep the US from giving any funds to the UN. He also submitted that the US funds should not be used in any UN peacekeeping mission or any UN program at all. He has sponsored a bill calling for us to “terminate all participation by the United States in the United Nations, and to remove all privileges, exemptions, and immunities of the United Nations.”Ron Paul twice supported stopping the destruction of intercontinental ballistic missile silos in the United States. He also would continue with Bush’s plan of ignoring international laws by maintaining an insistence that the International Criminal Court does not apply to the US, despite President Clinton’s signature on the original treaty. The International Criminal Court is used for, among other things, prosecution of war crimes. Please see the following links: H.R.3891, H.AMDT.191, H.AMDT.190, H.R.3769, H.R.1665, H.CON.RES.23, and H.R.1154
Ron Paul discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation and would not provide equal rights and protections to glbt citizens. This is an issue that Paul sort of dances around. He has been praised for stating that the federal government should not regulate who a person marries. This has been construed by some to mean that he is somewhat open to the idea of same sex marriage, he is not. Paul was an original co sponsor of the Marriage Protection Act in the House in 2004. Among other things this discriminatory piece of legislation placed a prohibition on the recognition of a same sex marriage across state borders. He said in 2004 that if he was in the Texas legislature he would not allow judges to come up with “new definitions” of marriage. Paul is a very religious conservative and though he is careful with his words his record shows that he is not a supporter of same sex marriage. In 1980 he introduced a particularly bigoted bill entitled “A bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955 A direct quote from the legislation “Prohibits the expenditure of Federal funds to any organization which presents male or female homosexuality as an acceptable alternative life style or which suggest that it can be an acceptable life style.” shows that he is unequivocally opposed to lifestyles other than heterosexual.
Ron Paul has an unnatural obsession with guns. One of Paul’s loudest gripes is that the second amendment of the constitution is being eroded. In fact, he believes that September 11 would not have happened if that wasn’t true. He advocates for there to be no restrictions on personal ownership of semi-automatic weaponry or large capacity ammunition feeding devices, would repeal the Gun-Free School Zones Act (because we all know our schools are just missing more guns), wants guns to be allowed in our National Parks, and repeal the Gun Control Act of 1968. Now, I’m pretty damn certain that when the Constitution was written our founding fathers never intended for people to be walking around the streets with AK47’s and “large capacity ammunition feeding devices.” (That just sounds scary.) Throughout the years our Constitution has been amended and is indeed a living document needing changes to stay relevant in our society. Paul has no problem changing the Constitution when it fits his needs, such as no longer allowing those born in the US to be citizens if their parents are not. On the gun issue though he is no holds barred. I know he’s from Texas but really, common sense tells us that the amendments he is seeking to repeal have their place. In fact, the gun control act was put into place after the assassinations of JFK, Martin Luther King, and Robert Kennedy. Please view the following links: H.R.2424, H.R.1897, H.R.1096, H.R.407, H.R.1147, and H.R.3892.
Ron Paul would butcher our already sad educational system. The fact is that Ron Paul wants to privatize everything and that includes education. Where we run into problems is that it has been shown (think our current health care system) that this doesn’t work so well in practice. Ron Paul has introduced legislation that would keep the Federal Government “from planning, developing, implementing, or administering any national teacher test or method of certification and from withholding funds from States or local educational agencies that fail to adopt a specific method of teacher certification.” In a separate piece of legislation he seeks to “prohibit the payment of Federal Education assistance in States which require the licensing or certification of private schools or private school teachers.” So basically the federal government can’t regulate teaching credentials and if states opt to require them for private schools they get no aid. That sounds like a marvelous idea teachers with no certification teaching in private schools that are allowed to discriminate on the basis of race. He is certainly moving forward with these proposals!Remember his “bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955? Guess what? He basically advocates for segregation in schools once again. It “Forbids any court of the United States from requiring the attendance at a particular school of any student because of race, color, creed, or sex.” Without thinking about this statement it doesn’t sound bad at all. But remember, when desegregating schools that this is done by having children go to different schools, often after a court decision as in Brown Vs. Board of Education. If this were a bill that passed, schools would no longer be compelled to comply and the schools would go back to segregation based on their locations. Ron Paul is really starting to look like a pretty bigoted guy don’t you think?
Ron Paul is opposed to the separation of church and state. This reason is probably behind every other thing that I disagree with in regards to Paul’s positions. Ron Paul is among those who believes that there is a war on religion, he stated “Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view.” (( Koyaanisqatsi Blog: Wrong Paul Why I Do Not Want Ron Paul to be My President )) Though he talks a good talk, at times, Ron Paul can’t get away from his far right, conservative views. He would support “alternative views” to evolution taught in public schools (i.e. Intelligent Design.) We’ve already taken a look at his “bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955 Besides hating the gays he takes a very religious stance on many other things. He is attempting to force his beliefs on the rest of America, exactly what he would do as president.
So there you have it, my 10 reasons not to vote for Ron Paul. Please take the time to thoroughly review the records of the people running for office so you know where they really stand. Ron Paul has good rhetoric and he opposes the war but he’s not a good man in the human rights sense of the phrase. He is pretty much like every other Republican but more insidious. Here is a video that you should watch after reading this article. Really listen to what he says and how he says it. Watch out for the sneaky ones and RESEARCH! (( Orcinus: Ron Paul’s Record in Congress )



dude ::) break that into paragraphs