Author Topic: Opinions: how often should one train to failure? (Read 4291 times)

Sherief Shalaby · « **Reply #50 on:** May 30, 2009, 08:14:49 AM »

Quote from: Deicide on May 30, 2009, 02:02:20 AM

Discuss...

If I understand you right, I reach failure with each set!!.. I don’t count any set if I don’t reach the point of failure.. I consider it just a warming up set..

affeman · « **Reply #51 on:** May 30, 2009, 08:48:24 AM »

Quote from: MAXX on May 30, 2009, 03:47:22 AM

I don't get what's the point of going to the gym and half ass it? If you know you got one or two more reps in you why not do them?

Because it doesn't give you better results, at least in my experience.

Especially as a natural you have to budget carefully with the recovery ability of your body. Going to failure all the time is enourmous stress for the CNS and the regeneration of the muscle takes much much longer, as a natural you might even break down more muscle tissue than you'll be able to rebuilt afterwards.

Of course when I was a young, hungry Padawan I too punched every single set to total failure, but my devise nowadays is also "Train hard BUT SMART". I hardly ever go to failure nowadays, most sets just that I can get the last positive rep on my own and that's it, no spotter, no forced reps, no partials or swinging.

I feel much fitter and better nowadays (when I trained to failure all the time I was tired often all day long and had sore muscles in some groups for 4-5 days) and still get almost better results.

A natural imo should be careful with total failure, maybe even avoid it completely. But like with anything in BB, I guess everyone has to make his own experiences.

chrisdaniel33 · « **Reply #52 on:** May 30, 2009, 09:04:09 AM »

I think everyone in general is different ,so diffrent things will work.But I just workout to get as much of a pump as I can in the specific muscle I am training.Whatever gets you that painful pump use ,whether its heavy ,forced reps , medium reps , pauses, very strict form ,any or all .You can be strong and look like shit body wise.Increasing weights every workout isnt really useful if you are still not happy about what you look like in the mirror.

Awesomo · « **Reply #53 on:** May 30, 2009, 09:08:09 AM »

Quote from: Sherief Shalaby on May 30, 2009, 08:14:49 AM

If I understand you right, I reach failure with each set!!.. I don’t count any set if I don’t reach the point of failure.. I consider it just a warming up set..

I agree i go to failure on atleast 2 sets per exercise and generally do a couple forced reps after that. If i go any pussier than that my muscles don't feel like i have gotten a good workout.

drkaje · « **Reply #54 on:** May 30, 2009, 09:19:05 AM »

It's doubtful most people get results that warrant consistently going to failure. It's probably more along the lines that people like to feel their muscles have been smoked.

Next people will be advocating only doing heavy negatives with spotters.

Tre · « **Reply #55 on:** May 30, 2009, 09:26:12 AM »

Quote from: drkaje on May 30, 2009, 09:19:05 AM

It's doubtful most people get results that warrant consistently going to failure. It's probably more along the lines that people like to feel their muscles have been smoked.

Next people will be advocating only doing heavy negatives with spotters.

x2

There are days when I want to feel completely *worked*. I'm currently alternating heavy and light days, which worked well for me in the past.

I think negatives are a fun way to mix it up a little. I only have a training partner a few days out of each month, though. I haven't done them in a LONG time, but I felt that doing negatives helped to build up my muscular endurance. Others see it differently, of course.

drkaje · « **Reply #56 on:** May 30, 2009, 09:39:37 AM »

Quote from: Tre on May 30, 2009, 09:26:12 AM

x2

There are days when I want to feel completely *worked*. I'm currently alternating heavy and light days, which worked well for me in the past.

I think negatives are a fun way to mix it up a little. I only have a training partner a few days out of each month, though. I haven't done them in a LONG time, but I felt that doing negatives helped to build up my muscular endurance. Others see it differently, of course.

I'm not saying negatives or occasionally going to failure aren't good ideas. That being said, unless you're walking into the gym stronger next time around it's probably a waste of effort and a good way to get an injury.

You could curl 15 pounds to failure all day long and not get bigger biceps. Most of the pain/burn would be from lactic acid buildup.

I just wonder if too many people trade results for the mental stimulation that comes from changing routines all the time. My results have improved with a simpler routine but the only way to really hit the next level is training with a partner. Most people just plain talk too much to work out with me. Having someone push me along with the spotter for heavier lifts would help a lot.

MONSTER_TRICEPS · « **Reply #57 on:** May 30, 2009, 10:16:50 AM »

You shouldn't train to failure imo because it takes A LOT longer for your CNS to recover if you do.

jtsunami · « **Reply #58 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:25:01 PM »

never

Deicide · « **Reply #59 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:26:14 PM »

Quote from: jtsunami on May 30, 2009, 01:25:01 PM

I love sucking cock and taking it up the ass.

Fixed.

Van_Bilderass · « **Reply #60 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:33:14 PM »

DEFINE FAILURE!

Take for example Ronnie Coleman doing T-bar rows. Where is the failure point? There is none since form the first rep he is heaving the weight using tons of momentum. There's just an increasing breakdown of form as the set progresses.

Now take Markus Reinhardt going to failure on curls under the supervision of Mentzer. There is a pretty clearly defined failure point.

Which is more taxing, heavy ass t-bars not going to failure, where it looks like a half-deadlift, OR Mentzer style curls going to failure?

Things to consider when you determine how taxing it is "going to failure".

the_steevo_uk · « **Reply #61 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:40:26 PM »

I go to failure every set, unless its a warm up set ofcourse...if i dont do that I dont feel like ive worked hard enough.

Forced reps and cheat reps i save for the last set of each exercise, never for deadlifts or squats though

tbombz · « **Reply #62 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:50:26 PM »

its quite overhyped... burning out the cns from resistance training... arthur harrris mike mentzer dorian yates... none of these guys had any science or proof of anything, and make a ridiculous claim about the cns, and everybody believes its gold.. if high volume with extreme intensity burns out the cns and you cant grow... the arnold should have been 150lbs... and jay cutler and ronnie and pretty much 98% of all competitive bodybuilders... since they all train this way.. go to failure on every set and do 30 sets... by the end you will be hitting failure with 5 or 10 lbs at rep 4 or 5... your cns will be perfectly fine... do it every workout.. its only a matter of whether you can keep up motivation and intensity while training like this... now, beyond the cns argument... there may be reason to believe that less sets, less failure is more optimal for hypertrophy..but that wouldn't be because of an effect on the cns!!!

Deicide · « **Reply #63 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:51:38 PM »

Quote from: tbombz on May 30, 2009, 01:50:26 PM

its quite overhyped... burning out the cns from resistance training... arthur harrris mike mentzer dorian yates... none of these guys had any science or proof of anything, and make a ridiculous claim about the cns, and everybody believes its gold.. if high volume with extreme intensity burns out the cns and you cant grow... the arnold should have been 150lbs... and jay cutler and ronnie and pretty much 98% of all competitive bodybuilders... since they all train this way.. go to failure on every set and do 30 sets... by the end you will be hitting failure with 5 or 10 lbs at rep 4 or 5... your cns will be perfectly fine... do it every workout.. its only a matter of whether you can keep up motivation and intensity while training like this... now, beyond the cns argument... there may be reason to believe that less sets, less failure is more optimal for hypertrophy..but that wouldn't be because of an effect on the cns!!!

As I said, since I am doing HST which is fullbody, multiple times a week, it makes no sense for me to train to failure imo.

jtsunami · « **Reply #64 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:56:22 PM »

Quote from: tbombz on May 30, 2009, 01:50:26 PM

its quite overhyped... burning out the cns from resistance training... arthur harrris mike mentzer dorian yates... none of these guys had any science or proof of anything, and make a ridiculous claim about the cns, and everybody believes its gold.. if high volume with extreme intensity burns out the cns and you cant grow... the arnold should have been 150lbs... and jay cutler and ronnie and pretty much 98% of all competitive bodybuilders... since they all train this way.. go to failure on every set and do 30 sets... by the end you will be hitting failure with 5 or 10 lbs at rep 4 or 5... your cns will be perfectly fine... do it every workout.. its only a matter of whether you can keep up motivation and intensity while training like this... now, beyond the cns argument... there may be reason to believe that less sets, less failure is more optimal for hypertrophy..but that wouldn't be because of an effect on the cns!!!

training to failure you body gets used to it after a while, a good pump if you are on some shit is good enough for gaining muscle, if you want more just inject more, don't risk injury by lifting stupidly.

jt

Deicide · « **Reply #65 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:58:14 PM »

Quote from: jtsunami on May 30, 2009, 01:56:22 PM

I would love to suck your cock but my mouth aches from the dark room. You could fuck me up the ass though if you wanted to...

jt

tbombz · « **Reply #66 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:01:54 PM »

Quote from: Deicide on May 30, 2009, 01:51:38 PM

As I said, since I am doing HST which is fullbody, multiple times a week, it makes no sense for me to train to failure imo.

that wasnt addressed to you, i knew that it was you were doing, and its a bit different from the "normal" bodybuilding type of routine

BB · « **Reply #67 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:02:40 PM »

The older I get, the more I like the Chinese thinking on it. When you feel good push it hard and heavy. When your a bit burnt, just go mellow, or find another aspect of training to cover..........

Pretty decent way to train, or live for that matter.

Deicide · « **Reply #68 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:03:14 PM »

Quote from: tbombz on May 30, 2009, 02:01:54 PM

that wasnt addressed to you, i knew that it was you were doing, and its a bit different from the "normal" bodybuilding type of routine

That's cool. How is training and getting huge going?

tbombz · « **Reply #69 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:05:36 PM »

Quote from: Deicide on May 30, 2009, 02:03:14 PM

That's cool. How is training and getting huge going?

great, except i need new clothes. my "tight shirts" are sized medium.. they used to be just right when i wanted a tight fitting shirt to wear when im trying to dress attractive, but now they are TOO tight... i need to get size large now for my "tight shirt" collection

MAXX · « **Reply #70 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:11:46 PM »

why do you never post pics tbomz?

you should be huge now after over a year on juice

tbombz · « **Reply #71 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:18:07 PM »

Quote from: MAXX on May 30, 2009, 02:11:46 PM

why do you never post pics tbomz?

you should be huge now after over a year on juice

i have a couple pictures i took from my bday a few days ago, whenever i take those into walgreens and get them uploaded, i will posts them. remind me about it in like 5 days they should be up then

G o a t b o y · « **Reply #72 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:21:07 PM »

Quote from: MAXX on May 30, 2009, 02:11:46 PM

why do you never post pics tbomz?

Because he's a fag who takes cock up the ass?

drkaje · « **Reply #73 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:36:36 PM »

Quote from: tbombz on May 30, 2009, 01:50:26 PM

its quite overhyped... burning out the cns from resistance training... arthur harrris mike mentzer dorian yates... none of these guys had any science or proof of anything, and make a ridiculous claim about the cns, and everybody believes its gold.. if high volume with extreme intensity burns out the cns and you cant grow... the arnold should have been 150lbs... and jay cutler and ronnie and pretty much 98% of all competitive bodybuilders... since they all train this way.. go to failure on every set and do 30 sets... by the end you will be hitting failure with 5 or 10 lbs at rep 4 or 5... your cns will be perfectly fine... do it every workout.. its only a matter of whether you can keep up motivation and intensity while training like this... now, beyond the cns argument... there may be reason to believe that less sets, less failure is more optimal for hypertrophy..but that wouldn't be because of an effect on the cns!!!

The number of people in the world with the genetics like the guys you mentioned is pretty small. Any of us trying to do what then do and hoping for similar results is stupid.

tbombz · « **Reply #74 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:50:44 PM »

Quote from: drkaje on May 30, 2009, 02:36:36 PM

The number of people in the world with the genetics like the guys you mentioned is pretty small. Any of us trying to do what then do and hoping for similar results is stupid.

i also said 98% of all competitive bodybuilders train similarly