Abortion doctor shot to death in church.

[24KT]

spoken like a man who is not a father.  as a father who embraces the responsibility of my child and any life that i do create,  i cant help but to be a little offended by that statement.  if my wife (and this would NEVER happen) was pregnant and she decided that she didnt want to bother with another baby and wanted to get an abortion you're god damn right i have a say in that.  thats OUR baby.  not hers.  and as a man i have a responsibility to the life that i created.  yes she bears the child but it takes both of us to raise the child.  you're speaking like a man who has simply accepted the fact that men are not going to accept responsibility for the lives that they create.  i dont necessarily disagree with your decision to be pro choice i disagree with the mindset that you have in coming to your decision.

Actually, ...I think I speak more like a woman (a single woman) than a man, ...but that's irrelevant.

I think the operative word in your comment is WIFE. if you're a married couple, then of course it's a joint decision, ...however, I don't believe that any man has the right to tell any woman, ...especially some stranger what she can or cannot do with her body. btw - when I made my comment, a husband was the furthest thing from my mind. Sorry if i offended you Bear. Anthony, if I offended you, ...I'm glad!  

[tonymctones]

No. No one wants to pay for your living progeny. Libs aren't really interested in paying for the endless children repub fools make. And there are plenty of them.

We just kind of realize that stupid is as stupid procreates and there will always be the repub idiots who claim everyone else is glomming off the system when they are right there. They just assume their opinions make them better. Or that it doesn't count because they listen to rush. Or have babies that they give up. But they're just as stupid and living off the country's dime.

Honestly dude, your grammar is getting worse and worse. Go outside before you explode.

wow like a good delusional liberal you bring politics into an ethics discussion...bravo  

[tonymctones]

Actually, ...I think I speak more like a woman (a single woman) than a man, ...but that's irrelevant.

I think the operative word in your comment is WIFE. if you're a married couple, then of course it's a joint decision, ...however, I don't believe that any man has the right to tell any woman, ...especially some stranger what she can or cannot do with her body. btw - when I made my comment, a husband was the furthest thing from my mind. Sorry if i offended you Bear. Anthony, if I offended you, ...I'm glad! 

hahahah now thats not very nice

the situation didnt change from husband and wife to one night stand...the baby was created from both logically marriage shouldnt make a difference in your stance...I know logics not a friend of your stance on this particular issue but lets try and use it. 

[Deedee]

wow like a good delusional liberal you bring politics into an ethics discussion...bravo  

What do you want? I gave you an ethical argument earlier which you couldn't answer. Really, go outside. You have no clue what you're arguing. Billy N. has more ethics than you do.

[24KT]

hahahah now thats not very nice

the situation didnt change from husband and wife to one night stand...the baby was created from both logically marriage shouldnt make a difference in your stance...I know logics not a friend of your stance on this particular issue but lets try and use it. 

If you don't see the big difference between a couple that's married and a one night stand, you're the idiot! 

[tonymctones]

What do you want? I gave you an ethical argument earlier which you couldn't answer. Really, go outside. You have no clue what you're arguing. Billy N. has more ethics than you do.

LOL i havent answered ive answered every question youve asked while you have deflected almost every single question of mine  

[24KT]

What do you want? I gave you an ethical argument earlier which you couldn't answer. Really, go outside. You have no clue what you're arguing. Billy N. has more ethics than you do.

     {LOL} Dayyum! ...and he tells me that I'm not being very nice?!  

[tonymctones]

If you don't see the big difference between a couple that's married and a one night stand, you're the idiot! 

logically what difference does that make on whether the man should have a say or not? again LOGICALLY

[tonymctones]

logically what difference does that make on whether the man should have a say or not? again LOGICALLY

did the married man contribute anymore to the conception of the baby then the guy who had a one night stand? no so why does he have a say and not the guy who had the one night stand?

[Deedee]

   {LOL} Dayyum! ...and he tells me that I'm not being very nice?!  

.

Lol. I bet he would give his life for his children and his wife. He's just like that. And at least he's honest.  Also, probably if he were given a bunch of children who couldn't be saved, he would be there for the three days they were alive. Is he nutso? Yes, but people who are fundies do far worse on here in my opinion. The endless abortion threads with no resolve. That's far worse and a function of the fundie mentality. It's all about women for them. At least he takes a stand as a man. And you kind of get that he takes responsibility.

[tonymctones]

logically what difference does that make on whether the man should have a say or not? again LOGICALLY

did the married man contribute anymore to the conception of the baby then the guy who had a one night stand? no so why does he have a say and not the guy who had the one night stand?

bump for the logical difference jag?

.

Lol. I bet he would give his life for his children and his wife. He's just like that. And at least he's honest.  Also, probably if he were given a bunch of children who couldn't be saved, he would be there for the three days they were alive. Is he nutso? Yes, but people who are fundies do far worse on here in my opinion. The endless abortion threads with no resolve. That's far worse and a function of the fundie mentality. It's all about women for them. At least he takes a stand as a man. And you kind of get that he takes responsibility.

is that in reference to me? if so thanks i think but i am certainly no fundie and i thought it was billy M.? or is it N?

what questions of yours have i not answered?

[Straw Man]

LOL percieved? hahahahahah you really think its fair for a women to have the right to abortion but the man to not?

Weve had this conversation straw i agree a real man would never walk away from their child that being said A REAL WOMEN WOULD NEVER WALK AWAY FROM THEIR CHILD EITHER regardless of the situation...

I have no anger i find it ignorant that ppl are in favor of a womens right to choose but not a mans and see nothing wrong with it. Todays society with womens issues much like with racial issues has had a backlash of ignorant laws due to past behavior and way of thought...today is supposed to be about equality but i guess only when it suits your agenda huh?

I thought we already agreed that life was not fair

you're perfectly free to see something wrong with it but what do you propose is the "solution".   Do you think you should have control over another persons body?  If the answer is yes then do you think someone should have control over your body too?

[tonymctones]

I thought we already agreed that life was not fair

you're perfectly free to see something wrong with it but what do you propose is the "solution".   Do you think you should have control over another persons body?  If the answer is yes then do you think someone should have control over your body too?

as soon as that fetus is deemed to be alive its not soley her body and therefore the decision should be taken out of her hands unless its deemed that her health is at risk...This isnt as simple as saying your taking control over someones body we arent running around just grabing random ppl and taking control. When you consentually have sex with the knowledge that you may get pregnant you give up that right as you know that is a possible outcome and you accept that as a possible risk. There are plenty of laws out there that control my body and yours straw right now.

[tonymctones]

I thought we already agreed that life was not fair

you're perfectly free to see something wrong with it but what do you propose is the "solution".   Do you think you should have control over another persons body?  If the answer is yes then do you think someone should have control over your body too?

you think you should have control over another persons finances? or their pay check?

you still havent answered any of my questions straw not a single one, why is that?

[Straw Man]

you think you should have control over another persons finances? or their pay check?

you still havent answered any of my questions straw not a single one, why is that?

I think if you're the father of a child you should take responsibility for that child.  If you don't do it voluntarily then the court should make you do it.  If they don't then the rest of us have to pay for your kid.

what question are you talking about? 

[Straw Man]

as soon as that fetus is deemed to be alive its not soley her body and therefore the decision should be taken out of her hands unless its deemed that her health is at risk...This isnt as simple as saying your taking control over someones body we arent running around just grabing random ppl and taking control. When you consentually have sex with the knowledge that you may get pregnant you give up that right as you know that is a possible outcome and you accept that as a possible risk. There are plenty of laws out there that control my body and yours straw right now.

let's pretend two people have consensual sex and the woman becomes pregnant.

Neither want a kid and they don't even care that much about each other.  Moreover, neither is emotionally or financially able to take care of the kid.

They both agree that she should get an abortion.

What's the problem?

Let's say alter that and say that he wants a kid  and she doesn't.   Everything else is the same (can't afford it, can't take care of it etc..)

She decides to get an abortion

What's the problem?

[Deedee]

as soon as that fetus is deemed to be alive its not soley her body and therefore the decision should be taken out of her hands unless its deemed that her health is at risk...This isnt as simple as saying your taking control over someones body we arent running around just grabing random ppl and taking control. When you consentually have sex with the knowledge that you may get pregnant you give up that right as you know that is a possible outcome and you accept that as a possible risk. There are plenty of laws out there that control my body and yours straw right now.

God you are an idiot. The fetus is not deemed to be alive. Guess that would be in the womans domain and you should look within yourself, or at least ask Stella. What do you think?

[Deedee]

let's pretend two people have consensual sex and the woman becomes pregnant.

Neither want a kid and they don't even care that much about each other.  Moreover, neither is emotionally or financially able to take care of the kid.

They both agree that she should get an abortion.

What's the problem?

Let's say alter that and say that he wants a kid  and she doesn't.   Everything else is the same (can't afford it, can't take care of it etc..)

She decides to get an abortion

What's the problem?

you do know you're asking someone who has never even kissed a person. :-)

[Straw Man]

Straw Man, it's ridiculous to think that a bunch of guys on a bodybuilding board would have a clue as to the million and one things that can go wrong in a pregnancy. These are guys who think that going on a strict diet for three months is hell and back. But that a pregnancy is an inconvenience.

These are the same guys who say that abortion is murder, but it's "okay" if rape or incest is involved. WTF. If it's murder it's murder. Who cares if your wife got raped. Or if one twin is dying in the womb and sucking the life out of the mother and the other twin. Either you play God or you don't. And if it is truly murder, they should be advocating life in the clink and/or the death penalty for anyone who wants to have an abortion. It's mostly about control of women, not really that it's murder. The OT and the Talmud pretty much indicate that God was alright with abortion and that people only being living once God has given them the breath of life.

In the case of the Tiller murder, the dude who did it obviously felt no control over his own life... his wife left him, and so he projected his own issues onto women assuming responsibility and control over their own lives. I don't think he murdered Tiller for religious reasons. It's far more visceral than that.

great assessment of the situation

[tonymctones]

I think if you're the father of a child you should take responsibility for that child.  If you don't do it voluntarily then the court should make you do it.  If they don't then the rest of us have to pay for your kid.

what question are you talking about? 

i completely agree with you the only difference is you make an exception for the women and i dont your basically saying its ok for the women to not be responsible but not the man, you agree?

when do you believe life begins and why?
you do understand that an arbitrary date leaves the door open for infantcide and justifiable homicide dont you?

[Straw Man]

i completely agree with you the only difference is you make an exception for the women and i dont your basically saying its ok for the women to not be responsible but not the man, you agree?

when do you believe life begins and why?
you do understand that an arbitrary date leaves the door open for infantcide and justifiable homicide dont you?

by "not be responsible" do you mean choose to have an abortion?

I've answered your second question already

[tonymctones]

let's pretend two people have consensual sex and the woman becomes pregnant.

Neither want a kid and they don't even care that much about each other.  Moreover, neither is emotionally or financially able to take care of the kid.

They both agree that she should get an abortion.

What's the problem?

Let's say alter that and say that he wants a kid  and she doesn't.   Everything else is the same (can't afford it, can't take care of it etc..)

She decides to get an abortion

What's the problem?

the problem is you killed a child that was created through a consensual act knowing that it might result in pregnancy...if you dont want it or cant afford a child put the child up for adoption its as simple as that, its better that the child get to live and be adopted then to die...i really dont understand how you dont understand the inequality of the law that gives women the right to abort but not men...please dont ever bitch about laws being unfair...

[tonymctones]

by "not be responsible" to you mean choose to have an abortion?

I've answered your second question already

yes

really i must have missed it in the back and forth with dee, please reiterate for me

[Straw Man]

the problem is you killed a child that was created through a consensual act knowing that it might result in pregnancy...if you dont want it or cant afford a child put the child up for adoption its as simple as that, its better that the child get to live and be adopted then to die...i really dont understand how you dont understand the inequality of the law that gives women the right to abort but not men...please dont ever bitch about laws being unfair...

there was no child

let's pretend this woman had the abortion in the first 6 weeks

[tonymctones]

God you are an idiot. The fetus is not deemed to be alive. Guess that would be in the womans domain and you should look within yourself, or at least ask Stella. What do you think?

That my dear is an opinion seeing as no specific date/event has been set to say when the fetus is deemed alive or not...im fine with asking stella

STELLLLAAAAAAAA