Author Topic: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!  (Read 577 times)

Soul Crusher

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Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« on: June 02, 2009, 07:59:26 PM »
Obama said to be open to taxing health benefits

After meeting with president, key senator says option is 'on the table'

   

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updated 7:39 p.m. ET, Tues., June 2, 2009
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama is leaving the door open to taxing health care benefits, something he campaigned hard against while running for president.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., raised the issue with Obama during a private meeting Tuesday with the president and other Democratic senators and later reported the president's response: "It's on the table. It's an option."

The federal government would reap about $250 billion a year if it treated health care benefits given to employees like wages and taxed them.

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Baucus and others are eyeing that money as they search for ways to pay for a costly health care overhaul that would extend coverage to 50 million Americans who are now uninsured. That could cost some $1.5 trillion over 10 years.

The president adamantly opposed health benefit taxes during the campaign, arguing they would undermine job-based coverage. But he's now indicating openness to that suggestion from Congress, even if he criticized Republican presidential rival John McCain for proposing a sweeping version of the same basic idea.

Paying for reform
Obama has made some suggestions of his own for paying for a health care overhaul, including cuts to Medicare and limiting tax deductions wealthy people can take, but they've run into opposition from Congress. And, they only add up to about $630 billion over 10 years.

"The president made it clear during the campaign that he has serious concerns about taxing health care benefits," White House spokesman Reid Cherlin said in a statement about Tuesday's meeting.

"He stated again his belief that health reform can't wait another year, and that while all options should be considered, those options should include the revenue proposals that he included in his budget," Cherlin said. "He made it very clear that he prefers the approach he has already outlined."

Some experts think limiting the tax exclusion for health benefits is the only way to get the necessary money to pay for a sweeping health care overhaul. But there's opposition from organized labor and from many Democrats, including House Ways and Means Chairman Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., who said recently there was "no way" he would support the approach.

Baucus wants to look at limiting — but not entirely eliminating — the tax-free status of employer-provided health benefits. Obama is leaving the details of crafting a health care bill to Congress and used Tuesday's meeting to urge senators to swift action.

"This window between now and the August recess I think is going to be the make-or-break period," Obama said before the meeting was closed to reporters. "This is the time where we've got to get this running."


Uninsured are costly for all, report finds

Sweeping legislation
At the start of a White House meeting with senators, Obama warned that the window for overhaul legislation will close when Congress leaves for its August recess, part of his push to get lawmakers to move on a bill in the next two months. Majority Democrats in the House and the Senate want to bring the legislation to the floor by August.

White House officials argue that overhauling the health care system is key to turning around the economy.

The report by the White House Council of Economic Advisers says that health care costs — now about 18 percent of the gross domestic product — will rise to 34 percent in 30 years if left unchecked, wreaking havoc on the federal deficit, businesses and working Americans.

It says that for a typical family of four, income 10 years from now would be approximately $2,600 higher in 2009 dollars if a health care overhaul is enacted than it would be without it.

"The key contribution of the report is to show that if we do health reform well the benefits to the economy would be enormous," said Christina Romer, chairwoman of the Council of Economic Advisers.

Critics dismissed the report.

"No report or headline can take the place of a comprehensive plan — and that is what we have yet to see from the White House," said Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo.

Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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I cant wait for the explanation of this flip flop.

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Re: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2009, 08:01:30 PM »
333386,

you start - honestly - 20 or more obama threads each day.

Now, when i start 3 palin threads a week, people call me obsessed. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2009, 08:05:23 PM »
333386,

you start - honestly - 20 or more obama threads each day.

Now, when i start 3 palin threads a week, people call me obsessed. 

Obama is president and spending, taxing, and destroying your future, my future, your kids future, their kids future, and their kids future with the debt, spenmding, taxes, and burdens he is placing on us.

Palin is but a watercooler joke for most with no power to tax me. 

Get the difference???

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Re: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2009, 08:12:26 PM »
Palin is but a watercooler joke for most with no power to tax me. 

A watercooler joke?  You've got quite the crush on her.

If it were not for my girl, McCain would have gotten 32% of all voters since he sucked ass. 

Hedgehog

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Re: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2009, 01:26:10 AM »
If he's campaigned against it he can't flip flop on it.

That's failing his voters.

So I am gonna follow this issue with great interest. Obama needs to back up his words.

If he does, I'll give him credit for it. But the man can't just totally change position on something like this.

As empty as paradise

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2009, 04:33:40 AM »
A watercooler joke?  You've got quite the crush on her.


Why cant she be a watercooler joke and my girl at the same time? 

I know what she is to many people. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2009, 04:34:47 AM »
If he's campaigned against it he can't flip flop on it.

That's failing his voters.

So I am gonna follow this issue with great interest. Obama needs to back up his words.

If he does, I'll give him credit for it. But the man can't just totally change position on something like this.



Here is the problem Hedge, Obama is like the kid who wants to eat ten gallons of ice cream.  His head is much bigger than his stomach. 

There is no way to pay for national health care unless there are massive tax hikes. 

MCWAY

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Re: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2009, 05:01:22 AM »


Why cant she be a watercooler joke and my girl at the same time? 

I know what she is to many people. 

Conservative LOVE her! Liberals (and moose) FEAR her!

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Re: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2009, 06:54:31 AM »
Lets see,tax health care benefits,cap and trade,VAT tax.Wow,why doesnt the mesiah just get all our checks deposited to him and then he can take care of us.Its obvious he is smart enough to do so.After all,he was a community organiser.

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Re: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2009, 06:57:50 AM »
Lets see,tax health care benefits,cap and trade,VAT tax.Wow,why doesnt the mesiah just get all our checks deposited to him and then he can take care of us.Its obvious he is smart enough to do so.After all,he was a community organiser.

He is not smart enough to take care of anyone.   The fool puts a 31 y/o law school drop out in charge of GM and gets his treasury sec. laughed at in China. 

What does that say to you???

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Re: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2009, 01:05:29 PM »
He is not smart enough to take care of anyone.   The fool puts a 31 y/o law school drop out in charge of GM and gets his treasury sec. laughed at in China. 

What does that say to you???

What does it say to me?It tells me we have a community organiser in the White House,a man that sat in a racist church for twenty years and is now hell bent on punnishing those who do well,and rewarding people who dont work.All in an effort to even the playing field for his people.

MM2K

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Re: Obama open to taxing health benefits - MAJOR FLIP FLOP!
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2009, 04:55:32 PM »
From a Wall Street Journal Op Ed

I have highlighted a paragraph from this op ed for those of you who think the government needs to be more involved in healthcare. I want you to read it, and I would like to know if you beleive it or if you even care.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124355286037664421.html

TAXING HEALTHCARE
Obama and Democrats owe John McCain an apology.
 
Politicians wouldn't be politicians if they didn't trim their sails to the prevailing winds. Even so, the emerging 180-degree turn by Democrats on taxes and health insurance is one for the record books.

 Democrats have spent years arguing that proposals to equalize the tax treatment of health insurance are an outrage against the American people. Workers pay no income or payroll taxes on the value of job-based plans, but the same hand isn't extended to individuals who must buy coverage on their own. Last year liberals mauled John McCain for daring to touch the employer-based exclusion to finance more coverage for the individually uninsured. He was proposing "a multitrillion-dollar tax hike -- the largest middle-class tax hike in history," said Barack Obama, whose TV ads were brutal.

But now Democrats need the money to finance $1.2 trillion or more for their new health insurance entitlement. Last week Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus released his revenue "policy options" and high on the list is . . . taxing health benefits. Or listen to White House budget director Peter Orszag, who recently told CNN's John King that the exclusion "was not in the President's campaign plan, it wasn't in our budget. Clearly, some Members of Congress are putting it on the table and we are going to have to let this play out."

Mr. King tried again. "Let this play out. But would the President sign a bill that includes a pretty significant tax increase? That would be a tax increase." Mr. Orszag: "We're not going to be -- I think it's premature to be commenting on individual items . . . There are lots of ideas that are being put on the table." Translation: You betcha he'd sign it.

The tax exclusion is such a big revenue prize because Mr. Baucus is scrubbing every other tax nook and cranny and only coming up with rounding errors. A sampler:

- Impose an excise tax on hard alcohol, beer and some kinds of wine. That would be in addition to a sin tax on beverages sweetened with sugar or high-fructose corn syrup, such as soda. Mr. Baucus doesn't offer revenue estimates, though the Congressional Budget Office says a $16 per proof gallon alcohol tax might raise $60 billion over 10 years, and another $50.4 billion at three cents per 12 ounces of sugary drink.

- End or limit the tax-exempt status of charitable hospitals, which only costs currently a mere $6 billion a year.

- Make college students in work-study programs subject to the payroll tax. Also targeted are medical residents, perhaps on the principle that they'll one day be "rich" doctors. CBO has no score on these.

- Reducing Medicare reimbursement rates for supposedly "over valued physician services," such as diagnostic imaging. CBO says that requiring doctors to get prior clearance could save $1 billion in 10 years.

- For individuals with high-deductible insurance plans, contributions to health savings accounts would no longer be tax deductible. That would penalize patients who choose plans that encourage them to be informed consumers. CBO says that banning HSA payments entirely would yield all of $10 billion.

By contrast, the employer-based exclusion offers a huge money pot -- an estimated $226 billion in 2008. Yet as liberal MIT economist Jonathan Gruber recently told Mr. Baucus's committee, "no health expert today would ever set up a health system with such an enormous tax subsidy to a particular form of insurance" (his emphasis). It creates a coverage gap between workers who receive it from their employers and those who pay -- or can't afford to pay -- with after-tax money.

The tax exclusion is also one reason health costs continue to rise. It encourages workers to take an extra dollar of compensation in fringe benefits instead of cash while also routing low-deductible health spending through third parties. Some 84 cents of every medical dollar is spent by someone other than the patient. The insured have no incentives to make cost-conscious decisions about care.

So reforming the exclusion would inject a dose of discipline into American medicine. But for most Democrats the goal isn't to create a more rational health-insurance market. They simply want the revenue for another government program. Mr. Baucus won't target gold-plated employer insurance plans in general, because union-negotiated benefits are usually gold-plated. Rather, he may cap or phase out the exclusion by income, starting with workers earning more than $200,000. Insurance options that don't conform to government diktats (health savings accounts) would also lose any tax advantage. This would do nothing for market efficiency, but it would be one more stealth tax increase.

Democrats owe an apology to Mr. McCain, and it'll be fascinating to see if they will now suffer a political backlash of their own making. Having told the country that this tax reform is really a tax increase, Democrats are opening themselves to the same attacks they leveled against Republicans.

They could avoid that fate if they used the tax exclusion money to finance, say, a tax credit for the uninsured. That would be a genuinely bipartisan reform. But liberals won't accept that because they want to take one giant step toward government-run health care. And the only way they can pay for it is by taxing everything in sight, including your current health insurance.
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