RFID

[Hugo Chavez]

Mormons?  Evangelical Christians do not consider Mormons true Christians, and I do not know what Mormons believe about the Mark of the Beast.  So I would not expect them to oppose the chip for religious reasons.

Of all the Christians who oppose same sex marriage, many believe that the events described in the book of Daniel and in the book of Revelation already happened in the first and second centuries.  They don't believe that this chip will be the Mark of the Beast because they do not believe that there will ever be a Mark of the Beast.  So don't expect them to oppose this technology either.

where the hell did you dig up this fantasy?  Any links to any Christian sites that can back this up?  I believe they were talking about that time too, but of all the Christians I've known and I've known a lot living in Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona, none of them believed Revelations was not a book for our end times.

[Dos Equis]

still not my point, but ok.

Your point was twofold:  (1) religious groups provided a majority of the funding and (2) the issue is "obviously very important to Christians."  I was addressing (2). 

[Hugo Chavez]

Your point was twofold:  (1) religious groups provided a majority of the funding and (2) the issue is "obviously very important to Christians."  I was addressing (2). 

yea ok and? 

I was just pointing out that the issue is important to Christians, they put up a fight, financially and vocally againt gays with some success....  Not so much so on the what appears to be the workings of the mythical "Mark"

[Dos Equis]

yea ok and? 

I was just pointing out that the issue is important to Christians, they put up a fight, financially and vocally againt gays with some success....  Not so much so on the what appears to be the workings of the mythical "Mark"

And what?  That's it.  You said the issue was important to Christians.  I simply pointed out it was important to a lot of others too.  Wasn't addressing the financial part, the "mark of the beast," etc. 

[loco]

where the hell did you dig up this fantasy?  Any links to any Christian sites that can back this up?  I believe they were talking about that time too, but of all the Christians I've known and I've known a lot living in Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona, none of them believed Revelations was not a book for our end times.

No matter what you've read on the Internet or what your Christian buddies have told you, it does not follow that what I said is fantasy or that I dug it up.    

I grew up in a Christian home and have attended church all my life, many different churches from many different Christian denominations in different parts of the US and Venezuela.  My father attended seminary and earned masters degrees in Divinity and in Theology, and earned a PHD in Theology.

Go to any Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist church or seminary and ask the preacher or other leaders of the church or seminary professors.  You'll see that most of them don't believe that The Mark of the Beast will happen because the end time events described in the book of Daniel, Mathew 24 and Revelations already happened in the first and second centuries, except for the return of Jesus Christ.

Now go to any Baptist or Pentecostal, or even non-denominational church and you'll meet more people who believe that The Rapture, The Beast and his Mark and a The Great Tribulation are coming soon, though even they disagree on the order of these events.

Google the various Christian eschatological systems.

[Hugo Chavez]

No matter what you've read on the Internet or what your Christian buddies have told you, it does not follow that what I said is fantasy or that I dug it up.    

I grew up in a Christian home and have attended church all my life, many different churches from many different Christian denominations in different parts of the US and Venezuela.  My father attended seminary and earned a masters degrees in Divinity and in Theology, and earned a PHD in Theology.

Go to any Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist church or seminary and ask the preacher or other leaders of the church or seminary professors.  You'll see that most of them don't believe that The Mark of the Beast will happen because the end time events described in the book of Daniel, Mathew 24 and Revelations already happened in the first and second centuries, except for the return of Jesus Christ.

Now go to any Baptist or Pentecostal church and you'll meet more people who believe that The Rapture, The Beast and his Mark and a The Great Tribulation are coming soon, though even they disagree on the order of these events.

Google the various Christian eschatological systems.

I'm not going to google it, you show me... If it's so common you shouldn't have a problem.  Tune in any evangelical program on TV here  in the states, it's not hard whatsoever to find them using Revelations in a perspective as to suggest it is meant for end times.  It's also all over the radio.  It's also common belief.  I have no idea where you got otherwise.

[loco]

yea ok and? 

I was just pointing out that the issue is important to Christians, they put up a fight, financially and vocally againt gays with some success....  Not so much so on the what appears to be the workings of the mythical "Mark"

And I asked you why would they put up a fight and expose who they are to the government when they believe that when the Mark of The Beast is imposed on them by the government, they'll have to go into hiding from the government?  

Those who have already made up their mind not to take The Mark don't want the government to know who they are.

[loco]

I'm not going to google it, you show me... If it's so common you shouldn't have a problem.  Tune in any evangelical program on TV here  in the states, it's not hard whatsoever to find them using Revelations in a perspective as to suggest it is meant for end times.  It's also all over the radio.  It's also common belief.  I have no idea where you got otherwise.

It doesn't matter.  See above.  There is good reason why you don't see Christians fighting this.

[Hugo Chavez]

Loco, it's actually more common for athiests to believe Revelations was a book for Christians of that early time than for Christians of today to think that.

[Hugo Chavez]

It doesn't matter.  See above.  There is good reason why you don't see Christians fighting this.

I quess you couldn't find anything

[loco]

Loco, it's actually more common for athiests to believe Revelations was a book for Christians of that early time than for Christians of today to think that.

Don't take my word for it.  Know of any Episcopalian, Presbyterian or Methodist churches in your area?

[Hugo Chavez]

And I asked you why would they put up a fight and expose who they are to the government when they believe that when the Mark of The Beast is imposed on them by the government, they'll have to go into hiding from the government?  

Those who have already made up their mind not to take The Mark don't want the government to know who they are.

yea so like I said before, why fight the other shit with that being the mindset, if that's so....

[loco]

yea so like I said before, why fight the other shit with that being the mindset, if that's so....

You are still lumping all those who fight the other crap into one group.  I was just trying to kindly answer your question, but you just want to argue.  Believe what you want!

[Hugo Chavez]

You are still lumping all those who fight the other crap into one group.  I was just trying to kindly answer your question, but you just want to argue.  Believe what you want!

argue?  Lump?  HUH?  I'm trying to make a point and that's how you define it?  I'm not lumping or arguing anything.  Did you find any sites to back up what you said?  I'm guessing not.  That's not argumentive or lumping, it's a question to find a truth.  Fact is Evangelicals and many christians see revelations as relevent to our end times. 

[Butterbean]

easy, make it illegal now.  Define what it can and more importantly can't be used for.  This isn't unusual when new technology is presented to us, especially when it's controversial.  Just like Stem Cells and all those embryo issues.  There was a pretty significant Christian opposition to that and in turn you have politicians playing to it and it was very limited.  What should be done now is to define where you can go with this and where you can't.  First thing on the list of don'ts is that no matter what this cannot be forced on ANY person by any means including orchestrated nessecity.  In other words it can't be "voluntary" and at the same time have the banks or other basic service/industry require it. 

The Stem Cell/embryo thing is a much tangible and present argument than RFID imo.

But what you said about defining where you can go w/this and where you can't ...and to also make it where it was still voluntary would be great.

The thing is, if the end-time interpretation of the book of Revelation that we are talking about is accurate, many laws will be out the window by the time they make it a requirement anyway.   The Anti-Christ will be running the show.  You don't like a rule he makes, then you're likely going to be killed.




Also, in loco's defense we know a couple families that are Christians (as far as we know) that believe the book of Revelation is some symbolic thing and has nothing to do w/end-time stuff.  One family is Catholic but I can't remember what the other one is. 

Also many years ago I had a Mormon call me one day to see if I wanted a free bible and Book of Mormon and I asked him what his thoughts were on the Rapture and the 2nd coming.  Not saying he is representative of most of them as I wouldn't know but he had not heard of either of them.

[loco]

argue?  Lump?  HUH?  I'm trying to make a point and that's how you define it?  I'm not lumping or arguing anything.  Did you find any sites to back up what you said?  I'm guessing not.  That's not argumentive or lumping, it's a question to find a truth.  Fact is Evangelicals and many christians see revelations as relevent to our end times. 

Let's talk for a moment just about the one group of Christians that does believe in the Mark of The Beast and also fights same sex marriage.

The government, at least so far, will not go after them for fighting same sex marriage.  But when The Beast arrives, the government will go after them for fighting The Mark.  That's if they believe that they will be here to see it.

If they don't believe that they will be here to see it because they will be Raptured before it happens, why would they fight it if they won't be around to see it?  Same sex marriage is something that they believe that they will have to live with now if they don't fight it now.  

And why would they fight this chip now not knowing that it is for sure the Mark?

[Hugo Chavez]

The Stem Cell/embryo thing is a much tangible and present argument than RFID imo.

But what you said about defining where you can go w/this and where you can't ...and to also make it where it was still voluntary would be great.

The thing is, if the end-time interpretation of the book of Revelation that we are talking about is accurate, many laws will be out the window by the time they make it a requirement anyway.   The Anti-Christ will be running the show.  You don't like a rule he makes, then you're likely going to be killed.




Also, in loco's defense we know a couple families that are Christians (as far as we know) that believe the book of Revelation is some symbolic thing and has nothing to do w/end-time stuff.  One family is Catholic but I can't remember what the other one is. 

Also many years ago I had a Mormon call me one day to see if I wanted a free bible and Book of Mormon and I asked him what his thoughts were on the Rapture and the 2nd coming.  Not saying he is representative of most of them as I wouldn't know but he had not heard of either of them.

In my defence, it is an undeniable reality that revelations pertains to end times for a great number of Christians.  There is simply no refuting that.  Finding a church or several chruchs that don't believe that still doesn't change the fact that it is widely accepted among many christians as having relevance to our end times.

And you say stem cells are much more tangible than RFID?  I'm guessing you didn't look at the string of posts I made in this thread   That's pretty tangible and now...

On the end times futility, I ask again, why bother with the other stuff then?

[Hugo Chavez]

And why would they fight this chip now not knowing that it is for sure the Mark?

are you fracking serious? 

[loco]

are you fracking serious? 

Yes

I see you've watched fracking Battlestar Galactica, a show with Mormon themes by the way.   

[Butterbean]

In my defence, it is an undeniable reality that revelations pertains to end times for a great number of Christians.  There is simply no refuting that.  Finding a church or several chruchs that don't believe that still doesn't change the fact that it is widely accepted among many christians as having relevance to our end times.

I agree with you.

And you say stem cells are much more tangible than RFID?  I'm guessing you didn't look at the string of posts I made in this thread   That's pretty tangible and now...

I see what you are saying but the stem cell/embryo thing is here and now...what they want to do or do is here and now.

The RFID thing..by the time it is used as a requirement is in the future...that's what I mean.  Many people don't realize that it likely will be the only option in the future...may not be a very distant future unfortunately.

On the end times futility, I ask again, why bother with the other stuff then?

Personally, I don't really bother w/the other stuff.  Some people do feel very strongly about it though.  Maybe if I had kids I'd be more concerned about it. 

[Hugo Chavez]

Yes

I see you've watched fracking Battlestar Galactica, a show with Mormon themes by the way.   

what's with all the mormon references, are you getting on me being mormon?

[Hugo Chavez]

I agree with you.


I see what you are saying but the stem cell/embryo thing is here and now...what they want to do or do is here and now.

The RFID thing..by the time it is used as a requirement is in the future...that's what I mean.  Many people don't realize that it likely will be the only option in the future...may not be a very distant future unfortunately.

Personally, I don't really bother w/the other stuff.  Some people do feel very strongly about it though.  Maybe if I had kids I'd be more concerned about it. 

well do it for my kid then, she's really cute and she doesn't want to have to grow up to be implanted

Naaa, I don't care that much, I'll just shoot the fuckers if they try to stick her with an implant

But it is interesting anyway.  I would say that obviously the RFID thing is as here and now as Stem Cells if not more so.  Check out a few of those posts.  The idea with shutting down stem cell research was to nip it in the ass before it got started into something unstopable that they didn't like.  Well isn't that the same with RFID implants?

[Butterbean]

well do it for my kid then, she's really cute and she doesn't want to have to grow up to be implanted

Wait, is she here already?!?!    

Also, I was saying I don't bother w/the gay stuff.  I do care about the Mark stuff though.

But it is interesting anyway.  I would say that obviously the RFID thing is as here and now as Stem Cells if not more so.  Check out a few of those posts.  The idea with shutting down stem cell research was to nip it in the ass before it got started into something unstopable that they didn't like.  Well isn't that the same with RFID implants?

I did watch some of those vids and sent them out.  Also that church seems kinda whacked for doing that.

The thing is, if the end-time interpretation of the book of Revelation that we are talking about is accurate, many laws will be out the window by the time they make it a requirement anyway.   The Anti-Christ will be running the show.  You don't like a rule he makes, then you're likely going to be killed.

[Hugo Chavez]

Wait, is she here already?!?!    

Also, I was saying I don't bother w/the gay stuff.  I do care about the Mark stuff though.


I did watch some of those vids and sent them out.  Also that church seems kinda whacked for doing that.

yup, she was born on the 11th  

I had to do a doubletake with that church impanting chips and then remember that nothing surprises me these days lol.

[Butterbean]

yup, she was born on the 11th  

Congratulations!!    Hope everyone is getting some good sleep!

I had to do a doubletake with that church impanting chips and then remember that nothing surprises me these days lol.

Yeah, the Pastor seems like quite a character

 it doesn’t take much for Rexella to get her prophetic panties in a bunch.