Congress may hike Gas Taxes by 40 Cents per gallon to pay for highway fund.

[Soul Crusher]

If we had completely open markets (meaning we could get the cars and trucks that are available overseas) it would kill the American car industry and UAW overnight. These artificial tarrifs the gvt throws on goods screw the american consumer.

Nobody would buy a POS half ton Chevy for 45K that gets 14 MPG when they could get a Toyota that gets 35 MPG and costs 28K.

The Unions, especially the public employee unions, are really making it impossible for any fiscal sanity in this country. 

[Cap]

Do we even have any diesel engine cars here?  And I found out recently that Toyota makes a diesel engine that gets like 40+ mpg for the Tacoma line. Apparently it's not approved for US markets... 

The Jetta is approved, that's all I know about.  51 mpg.  I had read about the Toyota trucks, and wished I had that kind of gas mileage.  If the Germans can do it then the technology is there, it just needs to be implemented by US companies.

My buddy talks about his Ford truck over my Asian made car but the resale value on my truck will be much more at the same mileage.  If an American care was as efficient as mine and held up as well then I would buy an American car; German or Asian right now.

[Hereford]

The Jetta is approved, that's all I know about.  51 mpg.  I had read about the Toyota trucks, and wished I had that kind of gas mileage.  If the Germans can do it then the technology is there, it just needs to be implemented by US companies.

My buddy talks about his Ford truck over my Asian made car but the resale value on my truck will be much more at the same mileage.  If an American care was as efficient as mine and held up as well then I would buy an American car; German or Asian right now.

I go with German cars myself.

And I don't really care if American auto companies actually impliment the technology or not. The fact is that the tech is being kept out do that they don't have to. BMW has a 7-series that runs on hydrogen... Can't get it here though....

[Cap]

I go with German cars myself.

And I don't really care if American auto companies actually impliment the technology or not. The fact is that the tech is being kept out do that they don't have to. BMW has a 7-series that runs on hydrogen... Can't get it here though....

American car companies allow a couple trucks to be diesel, but that's about it.  It may cost a bit more for gas but if it lasts twice as long then I'm fine with that.  Apparently diesel engines can run for a LONG time and hold up better than standard gas engines. 

I remember talking to an engineer working for an American car company and him telling me about an engine that used the full 8 cylinders (for trucks) to accelerate but when it was cruising or sitting idle it would only use 4 cylinders.  If the technology is being used, you don't really hear about it all that much. 

[MRDUMPLING]

several cars do that now a days.  You are right about you not hearing about it.  That's why you have V8s getting close to 20mpg now.  American cars have been getting better and better over the last few years...especially Ford(the new fusion is selling like hot cakes and getting great reviews) I just think it is too little too late.  I hope Ford makes it because I always thought they were a better company than both GM and Chrysler.

[Cap]

several cars do that now a days.  You are right about you not hearing about it.  That's why you have V8s getting close to 20mpg now.  American cars have been getting better and better over the last few years...especially Ford(the new fusion is selling like hot cakes and getting great reviews) I just think it is too little too late.  I hope Ford makes it because I always thought they were a better company than both GM and Chrysler.

Well, then I guess the guy was telling me the truth.  I would imagine that if a Jetta can get 51 mpg with a diesel engine, a truck should be getting at least half that.  Asian car companies are selling trucks that get 21-25 mpg and until American car companies do that a lot of people won't buy bigger cars.

[Soul Crusher]

Well, then I guess the guy was telling me the truth.  I would imagine that if a Jetta can get 51 mpg with a diesel engine, a truck should be getting at least half that.  Asian car companies are selling trucks that get 21-25 mpg and until American car companies do that a lot of people won't buy bigger cars.

Why wont they do it?

[headhuntersix]

GM made 9 flex fuel/Green/extended millage cars and they didn't sell here. They are/were the number 1 foreign car company in Europe...they play to the market. I don't want to drive a death box.

[GigantorX]

Well, then I guess the guy was telling me the truth.  I would imagine that if a Jetta can get 51 mpg with a diesel engine, a truck should be getting at least half that.  Asian car companies are selling trucks that get 21-25 mpg and until American car companies do that a lot of people won't buy bigger cars.

And what trucks would those be? And from what manufactures?

I ask because after reading your post, especially this zinger, I get the feeling your depth of understanding concerning the auto industry is  pretty shallow.

[Cap]

And what trucks would those be? And from what manufactures?

I ask because after reading your post, especially this zinger, I get the feeling your depth of understanding concerning the auto industry is  pretty shallow.

Like using Google and reading what mpg a truck gets?  Asian car companies give you more mpg than American cars.  Trucks make it a bit closer but Asian car companies still edge American trucks.  Taking mpg out of the equation, companies like Toyota and Nissan make better trucks which is why they hold their value better than a Ford or Chevy.

If the Jetta can get clean diesel and pass CA stringent emission standards, while also getting 51 mpg, why can't we do the same with trucks?  Even if you only get 30 mpg out of a truck as opposed to 20 you still save in the long run.

[Hereford]

I get 18 on a Ford diesel.

The gas version gets like 8 MPG.

And how come 'fuel efficient' equates to 'deathtrap'?

[Cap]

I get 18 on a Ford diesel.

The gas version gets like 8 MPG.

And how come 'fuel efficient' equates to 'deathtrap'?

What year?  The newer diesels screw the driver big time.

[Hereford]

What year?  The newer diesels screw the driver big time.

97 F250.

I have no clue what the new ones get. Even if I was inclined to buy a new one there's no way i would pay 50K+ for a vehicle.

[GigantorX]

Like using Google and reading what mpg a truck gets?  Asian car companies give you more mpg than American cars.  Trucks make it a bit closer but Asian car companies still edge American trucks.  Taking mpg out of the equation, companies like Toyota and Nissan make better trucks which is why they hold their value better than a Ford or Chevy.

If the Jetta can get clean diesel and pass CA stringent emission standards, while also getting 51 mpg, why can't we do the same with trucks?  Even if you only get 30 mpg out of a truck as opposed to 20 you still save in the long run.

Again, what do you mean by "trucks"? 1/2 Ton flatbeds? Large BoF SUV's ? Those are trucks, car based SUV's are not.

The Jetta's diesel is very advanced and very expensive. It's a small 2.0L design and the Jetta is a barley a mid-size car and that 51mpg isn't official. That rating was under good conditions during highway driving, that's were diesel engines excel. It usually gets an average of 32-33mpg in mixed driving which is still good.

Trucks are just a wee-bit heavier and less aero-dynamic that cars. People that buy diesel trucks buy them because they use them so the diesels in pick-up trucks are very powerful and very large displacement. At best you'll get 18-20 combined. It would great to have more diesels in the US but with our new EPA standards it will incredibly tough to produce a compliant diesel engine. Europe has lower clean-air standards in this respect so they get away with it. This sucks because the new CAFE regs would benefit greatly from this. But because CAFE is some of the worst laws in history and high EPA standards we will be left with hybrids and gas engines.

A truck will never get 30mpg on the highway. To much drag and weight.

[Cap]

Again, what do you mean by "trucks"? 1/2 Ton flatbeds? Large BoF SUV's ? Those are trucks, car based SUV's are not.

The Jetta's diesel is very advanced and very expensive. It's a small 2.0L design and the Jetta is a barley a mid-size car and that 51mpg isn't official. That rating was under good conditions during highway driving, that's were diesel engines excel. It usually gets an average of 32-33mpg in mixed driving which is still good.

Trucks are just a wee-bit heavier and less aero-dynamic that cars. People that buy diesel trucks buy them because they use them so the diesels in pick-up trucks are very powerful and very large displacement. At best you'll get 18-20 combined. It would great to have more diesels in the US but with our new EPA standards it will incredibly tough to produce a compliant diesel engine. Europe has lower clean-air standards in this respect so they get away with it. This sucks because the new CAFE regs would benefit greatly from this. But because CAFE is some of the worst laws in history and high EPA standards we will be left with hybrids and gas engines.

A truck will never get 30mpg on the highway. To much drag and weight.

Okay, truck as in the kind you buy from a dealership; F150, F250, etc.  These are the trucks I'm talking about. 

Do you think they could get a clean diesel engine, like the Jetta, in a sedan?  40 mpg highway? 

[24KT]

Again, what do you mean by "trucks"? 1/2 Ton flatbeds? Large BoF SUV's ? Those are trucks, car based SUV's are not.

The Jetta's diesel is very advanced and very expensive. It's a small 2.0L design and the Jetta is a barley a mid-size car and that 51mpg isn't official. That rating was under good conditions during highway driving, that's were diesel engines excel. It usually gets an average of 32-33mpg in mixed driving which is still good.

Trucks are just a wee-bit heavier and less aero-dynamic that cars. People that buy diesel trucks buy them because they use them so the diesels in pick-up trucks are very powerful and very large displacement. At best you'll get 18-20 combined. It would great to have more diesels in the US but with our new EPA standards it will incredibly tough to produce a compliant diesel engine. Europe has lower clean-air standards in this respect so they get away with it. This sucks because the new CAFE regs would benefit greatly from this. But because CAFE is some of the worst laws in history and high EPA standards we will be left with hybrids and gas engines.

A truck will never get 30mpg on the highway. To much drag and weight.

I know guys getting that easily, ...guys in the USA   

[Soul Crusher]

I know guys getting that easily, ...guys in the USA   

Let me guess, they use your gas pills??

[GigantorX]

Okay, truck as in the kind you buy from a dealership; F150, F250, etc.  These are the trucks I'm talking about. 

Do you think they could get a clean diesel engine, like the Jetta, in a sedan?  40 mpg highway? 

Honestly, no. Again, to much drag and weight. The trucks can't be geared for full out MPG because they would lose their utility. Benz, BMW and Audi diesels average around 19-22 in their heavy SUV's which is great, but other than a massive decrease in weight and/or drag that's about where the mileage will stay, maybe a bit more, but that's it. The most adv. diesel in development is GM's 4.5L unit that is in flux right now b/c of the bankruptcy but from what I hear and read it is truly a leap in design and efficiency/emissions, when that is released we will see numbers in the mid to upper 20's. IF it's released.


EPA/CAFE/Safety regs force producers to add weight/complexity (meaning price) to cars in the way of emissions gear, stronger/heavier structures, countless safety devices etc etc. The govt. wants more efficient cars but EPA/Safety regs demand heavier and heavier cars which leads to auto makers being farther in the hole every year. Plus all the gear added to engines for emissions saps power AND efficiency. Which means they have to use hybrids/some diesels to cope. This adds a lot to the price of a car. It's a fucking clusters fuck and it doesn't make any sense. It's really shitty ignorant govt. at its finest. And as for your Jetta diesel, it would be far more fuel efficient if it wasn't for the emissions gear needed to make it U.S. spec compliant.

And as for trucks you mentioned above. The Tundra, besides being a truck with many quality issues, gets beaten in comparisons and gets lousy gas mileage. Same for the Nissan Titan. Both trucks also tanked in the market place, total failures. The most efficient truck on the market in terms of MPG would be the Chevy Silverado/GMC Sierra and their hybrid versions as well. And anything above a 1/2 ton can't be included because no Asian automaker has dared to venture into that market segment, for good reason.

[Cap]

Honestly, no. Again, to much drag and weight. The trucks can't be geared for full out MPG because they would lose their utility. Benz, BMW and Audi diesels average around 19-22 in their heavy SUV's which is great, but other than a massive decrease in weight and/or drag that's about where the mileage will stay, maybe a bit more, but that's it. The most adv. diesel in development is GM's 4.5L unit that is in flux right now b/c of the bankruptcy but from what I hear and read it is truly a leap in design and efficiency/emissions, when that is released we will see numbers in the mid to upper 20's. IF it's released.


EPA/CAFE/Safety regs force producers to add weight/complexity (meaning price) to cars in the way of emissions gear, stronger/heavier structures, countless safety devices etc etc. The govt. wants more efficient cars but EPA/Safety regs demand heavier and heavier cars which leads to auto makers being farther in the hole every year. Plus all the gear added to engines for emissions saps power AND efficiency. Which means they have to use hybrids/some diesels to cope. This adds a lot to the price of a car. It's a fucking clusters fuck and it doesn't make any sense. It's really shitty ignorant govt. at its finest. And as for your Jetta diesel, it would be far more fuel efficient if it wasn't for the emissions gear needed to make it U.S. spec compliant.

And as for trucks you mentioned above. The Tundra, besides being a truck with many quality issues, gets beaten in comparisons and gets lousy gas mileage. Same for the Nissan Titan. Both trucks also tanked in the market place, total failures. The most efficient truck on the market in terms of MPG would be the Chevy Silverado/GMC Sierra and their hybrid versions as well. And anything above a 1/2 ton can't be included because no Asian automaker has dared to venture into that market segment, for good reason.

I had read this. 

Interesting read though.  I appreciate your knowledge here.  Do you work in the auto industry?

[Dos Equis]

I saw a commercial for a hybrid Escalade.  Twenty mpg.  Pretty interesting . . . .

[24KT]

Let me guess, they use your gas pills??

As a matter of fact, ...they do. 

<--------

[24KT]

EPA/CAFE/Safety regs force producers to add weight/complexity (meaning price) to cars in the way of emissions gear, stronger/heavier structures, countless safety devices etc etc. The govt. wants more efficient cars but EPA/Safety regs demand heavier and heavier cars which leads to auto makers being farther in the hole every year. Plus all the gear added to engines for emissions saps power AND efficiency. Which means they have to use hybrids/some diesels to cope. This adds a lot to the price of a car. It's a fucking clusters fuck and it doesn't make any sense. It's really shitty ignorant govt. at its finest. And as for your Jetta diesel, it would be far more fuel efficient if it wasn't for the emissions gear needed to make it U.S. spec compliant.

This is sooo true. It's been happening in the trucking industry too. To make matters worse, alot of these re-gen units break down, ...and when that happens, the trucks simply shut off. The down time is just killing them. It sucks that many of these devices have to be there, ...but it's possible to circumvent them by taking care of what they're supposed to take care of prior to the regens even kicking in, ...if it doesn't turn on, less chance of breaking down, and shutting off the entire truck. Then too are the new urea tanks and the additional 16 O₂ sensors. Another 500 lbs, and yet another cluster fuck.

And as for trucks you mentioned above. The Tundra, besides being a truck with many quality issues, gets beaten in comparisons and gets lousy gas mileage. Same for the Nissan Titan. Both trucks also tanked in the market place, total failures. The most efficient truck on the market in terms of MPG would be the Chevy Silverado/GMC Sierra and their hybrid versions as well. And anything above a 1/2 ton can't be included because no Asian automaker has dared to venture into that market segment, for good reason.

[Stormspirit]

I saw a commercial for a hybrid Escalade.  Twenty mpg.  Pretty interesting . . . .

looks sweet

[GigantorX]

I had read this. 

Interesting read though.  I appreciate your knowledge here.  Do you work in the auto industry?

I don't although I have some friends that do. It's one of the things that I love to follow, though.

[Rami]

Possible Tax Hike Could Increase Gas Prices By 40 Cents
theindychannel.com ^ | 06/03/09 | Rick Hightower

Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:28:56 AM by Abathar

INDIANAPOLIS -- Gas prices, already on the rise, could jump significantly if Congress approves a large tax increase to help pay for the Federal Gasoline Tax Fund.

The increase could be as much as 40 cents a gallon. In exchange for the big increase, motorists would have a better chance of driving on better maintained state or federal highways, 6News' Rick Hightower reported.

Prices shot above $2.75 a gallon in central Indiana Tuesday. The last thing drivers wanted to hear was that a gas tax increase could send the price much higher, from the current 18 cents a gallon to 58 cents.

"With the way the economy is right now, to raise taxes again … is going to set things back to where it was before," said driver Craig Lewandowski. "The fact that gas prices went down helped out a lot of people."

"I don't like the prices now. I'm a college student. I have no money anyway," said Kara Prewitt. "Gas prices going up is never a good thing."

The fund that pays for highway construction would go broke in August unless Congress infuses about $7 billion needed to keep current projects going.


(Excerpt) Read more at theindychannel.com

________________________ ________________________ _____________

Change I still dont believe in. 

good