Author Topic: Curious...  (Read 1376 times)

jayfromeurope

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Curious...
« on: June 09, 2009, 04:39:36 PM »
Hi,

I'm very curious about bodybuilder life so here is my question :

I heard that a lot of pro bodybuilder and amateur bodybuilder doesn't believe in PCT.

What do you think ? Is that right that pro bodybuilder doesn't take PCT ?

Thanks for all info.

 ;)
J

abc123

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2009, 05:15:57 PM »
Hi,

I'm very curious about bodybuilder life so here is my question :

I heard that a lot of pro bodybuilder and amateur bodybuilder doesn't believe in PCT.

What do you think ? Is that right that pro bodybuilder doesn't take PCT ?

Thanks for all info.

 ;)

It's not that they don't believe in PCT.  Most don't do PCT because they stay on year round and therefore have no need for it.

Emmortal

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2009, 05:44:15 PM »
Exactly, no need to PCT if you never come off.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2009, 06:35:50 PM »
It's not that they don't believe in PCT.  Most don't do PCT because they stay on year round and therefore have no need for it.

According to Milos all the top 10 guys go off. Half the cycle length off, at the least. For example, 12 weeks on, 6 weeks off.

jtsunami

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2009, 08:59:26 PM »
in the long run personally i think it would be healthier to just stay on then go completely off when you are done with bb.  Your body will wonder wtf is going on if you are going off/on taking anti e's etc every couple months, I think the body would get use to whatever dosage you stay at after a while and just adapt.

jt
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abc123

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2009, 10:14:33 AM »
According to Milos all the top 10 guys go off. Half the cycle length off, at the least. For example, 12 weeks on, 6 weeks off.

What do they consider 'off?'  cruising?

jtsunami

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2009, 04:34:22 PM »
What do they consider 'off?'  cruising?

cause that is the closest thing they got to off
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dustin

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2009, 04:53:28 PM »
What do they consider 'off?'  cruising?

For the most part.

I'm beginning to admire a lot of what gh15 said.. homeostasis will set in and our bodies will recover. The HPTA can be thought of like a pendulum. Yes, hormones are going to fuck up our swing but give it some time and things will settle where they need to without intervention. Intervention in the form of "Post Cycle Therapy" can bring us to homeostasis a lot quicker. That's a fact.

Somewhere along the line, retards started regurgitating bullshit and now we have "PCT" as it is today. People don't understand jack shit. People who plan on using hormones should learn about them first, then use and abuse them. If you understand what's happening in your body, things will go much smoother. PCT will not make you retain all your gains. Hell no. But it'll help you recover quicker than you could on your own.


I'm also starting to become less hung up over PCT. I understand that I'm fucking my body up, but when it recovers I do what I can to aid the natural healing process. It still takes time. All the HCG and fertility drugs in the world won't cure you over night. Just be satisfied with the gains you made on cycle. When you cease use, make sure that you're satisfied with the size you put on, make sure that you're as conditioned as possible and that you've held that size and conditioning for a respectable amount of time. When you come off, feel free to bridge on non-steroidal hormones and anabolics like slin, GH and thyroid medication. They are non-steroidal in nature and will help you to bridge the gap between juiced up freak and whatever "natural" state is left.

Understand that you will lose a good deal of intramuscular water and glycogen retention. Understand that your strength will likely dwindle, albeit only slightly if you train correctly. You may become more emotionally unstable as your hormones fluctuate, but it's normal. Just think positive, train hard and become even more determined and straight forward thinking now that you have this new challenge to deal with. Training while coming off may feel shitty, but it will only feel as shitty as you let it. Sometimes it's a relief to not have to pin every fucking day, spending time swabbing your shit down, wasting hours drawing up oils, switching pins and hitting God damn scar tissues. You won't be sweating like a bastard from heavy anabolics like tren either. Sometimes it feels nice to wrap up a cycle and just call it quits. The most successful PCT I ever had is when I just didn't give a fuck about getting smaller and less conditioned, kept training hard, spent more time in the kitchen and I came away with great gains.


I'm a smaller guy, but I've used responsible doses, went to the doctor for blood work and kept mental and physical notes for contrast and comparison. I've had my fair share of fuck-ups but in the grand scheme of things, I look at most juicers and just shake my head at how retarded they are. I'm sure I'm slightly retarded as well, but at least I'm trying. The take away message is that you'll shrink and won't be as lean once you come off. That's just a fact of life. You can't expect to have a supraphysiological physique without a supraphysiological level of hormones. And unless you're an absolute freak with some of the most favorable genetics, you will have to introduce exogenous hormones to attain that. It is not permanent, but you will be freakier than any natural even with shitty training. When you come off, just don't be a fucking pussy. If you have a fine piece of ass, don't soft dick her with your limp penis like a loser. Get hard, be a man and rail the shit out of her. Don't be a sobbing vagina and stop training for 5 months because you've got no motivation to train off cycle. It's better than nothing. You can alternatively cruise on a low dose of AAS instead of completely coming off as well, giving your body a chance to breathe without losing any hard earned progress.


Cliffs:
- You will lose size while coming off. Get over it.
- "PCT" fertility drugs, anti estrogens and other ancillaries aid in recovery only marginally. Don't expect a miracle.
- Don't be a sobbing vagina. Fuck your woman like it's your job, don't stop training because you're not sauced up and stay positive
- Actually research about steroids and don't rely solely on forums, snippets of steroid articles in MD Magazine and locker room bro science
- If you're extremely concerned or you're a "hard gainer" like myself, just cruise between heavy doses of androgens and use non-steroidal anabolics when you do come off completely



/meltdown lol

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009, 09:20:34 PM »
What do they consider 'off?'  cruising?

Nah, that's not what Milos says. Off is nothing whatsoever according to Milos... then they do 250-750mg of test max, and same amount of anabolics, for 12 weeks before shows like the Olympia. Milos went on record to say this is what Ronnie and Jay do. And some of the Olympia guys don't even do GH or insulin and if they do use GH it's never more than 2-6iu :D

abc123

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2009, 02:55:03 AM »
Nah, that's not what Milos says. Off is nothing whatsoever according to Milos... then they do 250-750mg of test max, and same amount of anabolics, for 12 weeks before shows like the Olympia. Milos went on record to say this is what Ronnie and Jay do. And some of the Olympia guys don't even do GH or insulin and if they do use GH it's never more than 2-6iu :D

Well, I agree that is silly.  But, IMO the cycle he posted (and you re-posted recently) seems reasonable if using human grade AAS combined with insulin and GH.  And, I bet the smart pros do come off everything other than GH and(or) insulin for a short period each year, but not 1/2 the time on. 

When I say come off, I mean the they run a heavy PCT as a bridge, use GH the whole time and run insulin if they train at all and then MAYBE take a couple weeks off everything other than GH before going back on.   I honestly dont think many of them train at all and therefore just stick to PCT and GH.  Training would tear down too much muscle that just can't be rebuilt without hormones in the system.

IME, doing that, combined with NO weight training or cardio, you can retain all of your muscle before going back on.  I know I don't carry anywhere near the muscle the pros do, but that approach works very well for me.  Plus it provides a break from the gym.

Lastly, remember that anyone in the top five has superior genetics that most of us can't even imagine.  Comparatively, the above average pro - not top 10 -  probably can't come off at all without losing too much.

io856

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2009, 04:08:06 AM »
Nah, that's not what Milos says. Off is nothing whatsoever according to Milos... then they do 250-750mg of test max, and same amount of anabolics, for 12 weeks before shows like the Olympia. Milos went on record to say this is what Ronnie and Jay do. And some of the Olympia guys don't even do GH or insulin and if they do use GH it's never more than 2-6iu :D
he said Nasser used 20ius

please remember most bodybuilders are doing EVERYTHING and ANYTHING to get bigger and leaner when it comes to the professional level FORGET ABOUT IT.... you better believe there is a tonne of shit going through their bodies... is a guy like Branch going to fucck around with 500mgs of test a week LOL...

jtsunami

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2009, 09:11:24 AM »
he said Nasser used 20ius

please remember most bodybuilders are doing EVERYTHING and ANYTHING to get bigger and leaner when it comes to the professional level FORGET ABOUT IT.... you better believe there is a tonne of shit going through their bodies... is a guy like Branch going to fucck around with 500mgs of test a week LOL...

x2
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Van_Bilderass

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2009, 12:38:38 PM »
Well, I agree that is silly.  But, IMO the cycle he posted (and you re-posted recently) seems reasonable if using human grade AAS combined with insulin and GH.  And, I bet the smart pros do come off everything other than GH and(or) insulin for a short period each year, but not 1/2 the time on. 

When I say come off, I mean the they run a heavy PCT as a bridge, use GH the whole time and run insulin if they train at all and then MAYBE take a couple weeks off everything other than GH before going back on.   I honestly dont think many of them train at all and therefore just stick to PCT and GH.  Training would tear down too much muscle that just can't be rebuilt without hormones in the system.

IME, doing that, combined with NO weight training or cardio, you can retain all of your muscle before going back on.  I know I don't carry anywhere near the muscle the pros do, but that approach works very well for me.  Plus it provides a break from the gym.

Lastly, remember that anyone in the top five has superior genetics that most of us can't even imagine.  Comparatively, the above average pro - not top 10 -  probably can't come off at all without losing too much.

Yeah I agree with what you say. Milos did say that there were several pros who refused to do Milos' "ideal cycle". Too much for their liking.  :D

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2009, 12:47:44 PM »
he said Nasser used 20ius

please remember most bodybuilders are doing EVERYTHING and ANYTHING to get bigger and leaner when it comes to the professional level FORGET ABOUT IT.... you better believe there is a tonne of shit going through their bodies... is a guy like Branch going to fucck around with 500mgs of test a week LOL...

There are some very good bodybuilders, even on professional level who don't, and don't want to, do heavy stacks. But they are the smaller guys. They know they could get bigger on more stuff but just don't want do it or increase dosages slowly. A Branch or Jay or Ronnie didn't get to that monstrous level on moderation of course.

abc123

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2009, 01:49:28 PM »
he said Nasser used 20ius

please remember most bodybuilders are doing EVERYTHING and ANYTHING to get bigger and leaner when it comes to the professional level FORGET ABOUT IT.... you better believe there is a tonne of shit going through their bodies... is a guy like Branch going to fucck around with 500mgs of test a week LOL...

I use 20ius preworkout.  What's  your point?  Do you mean off cycle?

io856

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Re: Curious...
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2009, 01:21:31 AM »
I use 20ius preworkout.  What's  your point?  Do you mean off cycle?
He was talking about hgh and so was I