I went to a gym once where one of the older guys would sell "placebo" supps to new members. Everytime a new guy would show up, if they were primiarily and ab shooter, he would offer to sell them some (product X) at a reduced price because his stomach couldn't take it, etc.... then he would charge them for a jug of koolaid mixed with whatever else....kinda sad. But he was a little crazy, so I kept my piehole shut.