Author Topic: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.  (Read 48427 times)

Royal Lion

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2009, 06:15:28 PM »
Holy shit - where to start with your epic lack of common sense. 

Dorian Yates - he started training at a relatively late age and began competing shortly thereafter;  from his early Olympia days he was known as a low volume lifter.  In 93 for instance he was only spending 3.5 hrs per week in the gym.  Not sure where your getting the 9 years of high volume from?

Football players - how many linebackers in the NFL weigh more than 250?  How many are lean?  How many train like a bodybuilder?

Track & Field - look at an olympic sprinter?  how about a shotput thrower?  Javeline?  Hammer throw?  All carry tons of muscle and don't train like a bodybuilder. 

The bottom line is that regardless of volume a muscle will grow if it is torn down and then repaired.  I agree that muscles also respond to high volume training; however, I disagree that this method is predominatly better than strength training.

And yes, genius, I understand your point about Flex's relative higher amount of muscle.  However, it is pure speculation to assume that.  To sit on here and insult others based on what is nothing more than a guess on your part makes little sense.

suckmymuscle

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2009, 06:29:46 PM »
Holy shit - where to start with your epic lack of common sense.  


  The morons can't see what they are, or how badly they are getting owned, and they insult those who are more intelligent than themselves ad nauseum for no other reason than spite.

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Dorian Yates - he started training at a relatively late age and began competing shortly thereafter;  from his early Olympia days he was known as a low volume lifter.  In 93 for instance he was only spending 3.5 hrs per week in the gym.  Not sure where your getting the 9 years of high volume from?

  I have Blood&Guts and Dorian states he trained for 9 years with multiple sets. He started training in 1982, btw. The more you try to debate me, the deeper the hole you dig. I have already told you that you're stupid so why do you even try?

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Football players - how many linebackers in the NFL weigh more than 250?

  The average stature of NFL players is 6'5, and they have enormous bones. It would be surprising if they did not weight more than 250 lbs. Again, how the fuck does this prove that powerlifting training works for mass? And by the way, lots of guys in the NFL train with multiple sets, so your argument - as usual - is redundant.

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How many are lean?

  Irrelevant. Even if lean at over 250 lbs, they have less mass proportionally than pro bodybuilders because they are much taller and heavier boned.

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How many train like a bodybuilder?

  First of all, this is irrelevant. Even if they train like powerlifters, their mass is smaller than that of a pro bodybuilder when you adjust for height and skeletal frame size. Answering yoru question, quite a few. EAS used to sponsor the Denver Broncos, and I read their training in MuscleMedia years ago and most did multiple sets on the bench, squats and deads, and also did bodybuilding exercises like leg extensions.

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Track & Field - look at an olympic sprinter?  how about a shotput thrower?  Javeline?  Hammer throw?  All carry tons of muscle and don't train like a bodybuilder.  


  Do they train with low volume and ultra heavy weights, genius? No. Their training, in fact, is far more similar to that of a bodybuilder than that of a powerlifter. Again, you get owned by your own stupid arguments. ;D

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The bottom line is that regardless of volume a muscle will grow if it is torn down and then repaired.  


  Never claimed otherwise; what I'm claiming is that the volume of work is as important or more than the weight overload imposed on muscles. You can't read. And you suck.

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And yes, genius, I understand your point about Flex's relative higher amount of muscle.  However, it is pure speculation to assume that.  To sit on here and insult others based on what is nothing more than a guess on your part makes little sense.

  No, this in particular is not a speculation, because anyone with two eyes and a working brain can see that pro bodybuilders are significantly more muscular for their frames than powerlifters, even if powerlifters are larger and heavier. Fail. Again.

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Eisenherz

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2009, 06:40:15 PM »

Never claimed otherwise; what I'm claiming is that the volume of work is as important or more than the weight overload imposed on muscles. You can't read. And you suck.

Of course it is, but only to a point.


Royal Lion

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2009, 08:01:28 PM »


  The morons can't see what they are, or how badly they are getting owned, and they insult those who are more intelligent than themselves ad nauseum for no other reason than spite.

  I have Blood&Guts and Dorian states he trained for 9 years with multiple sets. He started training in 1982, btw. The more you try to debate me, the deeper the hole you dig. I have already told you that you're stupid so why do you even try?

  The average stature of NFL players is 6'5, and they have enormous bones. It would be surprising if they did not weight more than 250 lbs. Again, how the fuck does this prove that powerlifting training works for mass? And by the way, lots of guys in the NFL train with multiple sets, so your argument - as usual - is redundant.

  Irrelevant. Even if lean at over 250 lbs, they have less mass proportionally than pro bodybuilders because they are much taller and heavier boned.

  First of all, this is irrelevant. Even if they train like powerlifters, their mass is smaller than that of a pro bodybuilder when you adjust for height and skeletal frame size. Answering yoru question, quite a few. EAS used to sponsor the Denver Broncos, and I read their training in MuscleMedia years ago and most did multiple sets on the bench, squats and deads, and also did bodybuilding exercises like leg extensions.
 

  Do they train with low volume and ultra heavy weights, genius? No. Their training, in fact, is far more similar to that of a bodybuilder than that of a powerlifter. Again, you get owned by your own stupid arguments. ;D
 

  Never claimed otherwise; what I'm claiming is that the volume of work is as important or more than the weight overload imposed on muscles. You can't read. And you suck.

  No, this in particular is not a speculation, because anyone with two eyes and a working brain can see that pro bodybuilders are significantly more muscular for their frames than powerlifters, even if powerlifters are larger and heavier. Fail. Again.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
You are a fucking moron.  When did Dorian Yates claim he gained the most mass?  And, what style of training does he recommend for gaining the most mass? That's right, low volume.  To this day he recommends it even for beginners, just watch any one his recent seminars. 

You think Olympic sprinters train like bodybuilders?  Jesus Christ....where to even begin.  Have you ever heard of a fast twitch muscle fiber?  An olympic lift, e.g. a power clean, snatch, or jump squat?  These are done at low reps and they build the explosive fast twitch muscle fibers for sprinting. 

Sorry, but large bones alone do not account for 250lb linebackers being muscular and lean.  Someone who is 250lbs and runs a 4.5 40 yard dash does not train like a bodybuilder.  See above bried fast twitch muscle fiber analysis.

Perhaps this is all too complicated for you.

Marty Champions

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2009, 08:13:32 PM »
lets make this simple shall we

we have two people looking to "gain muscle"

micahel falcon is 20% bodyfat at 200 pounds he USES 3000 calories doing rigorous manual labor of digging holes all day and doesnt workout

Justin Falcon is 20% bodyfat at 200 pounds he starts liftin 6 hours a day he uses/requires 3000 calories he claims to be" KILLING himself in the gym with HIGH INTENSITY though!!!"

howard Falcon is 20 % bodyfat has a desk job and jogs runs 6 miles a day and uses for the day 3000 calories

Rodney Falcon is 20 % bodyfat at 200 pounds, "starts training like a mad man" and eat 6000 calories day in and day out


ALL of these guys would STILL HAVE THE SAME MUSCLE MASS regardless of how they train , it may be distributed differently. its how much CALORIES THEY USE or go through in a day on average

EXCEPT RODNEY FALCON who will be GAINING MASS because he is consitently eating and USING 6000 calories a day



THIS IS THE FUCKING TRUTH YOU GOD DAMN ASSHOLES
A

Kegdrainer

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2009, 08:15:14 PM »
the reason these guys are fuckin gigantorz is because they take massive amounts of hormones and other drugs.  Training too, yes...but the weights of a set, how many sets, etc....who gives a shit really.  If you are improving then who cares?  If you plateau you change it up and break through.  Any guy who lifts consistently will tell you this.  

Drugs are the key to true massiveness.

big man

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2009, 08:34:45 PM »
In fact this is the simple way to think about it. Let's say high volume is really the way to go. Let's also say that there is no disputing that a low volume approach is best for gaining strength. Now take your average gymrat. How is he going to keep improving/growing if he NEVER switches to a low volume approach to focus on strength-building so that ultimately, in the long-run he can use heavier poundages in ALL his sets. I think low volume training has a very important indirect effect on hypertrophy.
I agree with all your post. This one in particular. As a natty I think you have to get stronger to get bigger no way around it. I have done all the 10 sets of 10 stuff and it does nothing for me. A pump yes, growth, no not really. Build the base first. Get as strong as possible then rep it out, and repeat

suckmymuscle

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2009, 08:59:46 PM »

 You are ready to get owned by me for the gazillionth time. You truly are a person of low intellectual capacity and it is amazing that you belive that you even have a point to make.

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You are a fucking moron.  When did Dorian Yates claim he gained the most mass?

  I am assuming he made the most gains from the period when he started training to about the time he turned pro. Are you saying he gained more mass after he started doing one-set-to-failure around 1991? Well, let's see, he was 180 lbs when he started training and was 239 lbs at the 91' Olympia. So he gained 59 lbs of lean mass from doing multiple sets. His highest competition weight after switching to one-set-to-failure was 266 lbs at the 97' Olympia. So he gained 31 lbs of lean mass after doing one-set-to-failure. Conclusion: Dorian gained more mass from multiple sets than from one-set-to-failure. And you can't really argue for one-set-to-failure for Dorian because he wouldn't be able to stimulate muscle growth with one set if he hadn't a supreme ability to stimulate muscle fibers, which only comes from years of doing multiple sets.

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  And, what style of training does he recommend for gaining the most mass?

  He recommends doing 3 sets for begginers and intermediaries and only recommends one-set-to-failure for advanced bodybuilders. Go read Blood&Guts, moron. And again, what the fuck has this got to do with anything? So a bodybuilder possesed of incredible genetics for size, on massive doses of drugs, who has vastly superior neuromuscular efficiency because of many years of training can stimulate muscle growth with one set. Boo fucking hoo! Where are the huge natural bodybuilder who train with one-set-to-failure? I don't know any. All the natural guys who carry muscle do multiple sets, and the most common complain of tainers who do one set is that their strengh increases but not their mass.

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That's right, low volume.

  What Dorian Yates recommends is irrelevant because it only works for the 0.000001% of bodybuilders, like him, who:

 - Are genetically programmed to be muscular.

  - Take anabolic drugs.

  - Have superior neuromuscular ability that only comes from years of doing multiple sets.

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To this day he recommends it even for beginners, just watch any one his recent seminars. 

  Post a link. What I have in Blood&Guts is the series he recommends for begginers and intermediaries, both to which he recommends 3 sets per exercise in the 6 to 8 rep range.

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You think Olympic sprinters train like bodybuilders?  Jesus Christ....where to even begin.

  Where did I claim that, dumbass? My point is that they don't train with very heavy weights for a few reps, so your point is redundant. I said they train more like bodybuilders than like powerlifters, doing multiple sets in the 6 to 8 rep range. And sprinters don't have very impressive muscularity compared to bodybuilders who do multiple sets, so I don't know why you brought this stupid point up. Again, how is your stupid sprinter example evidence that ultra heavy weights for low reps work for mass, since:

 1. Sprinters don't have that much mass anyway and...

  2. They don't train like powerlifters.

  You are just plain fucking stupid.

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  Have you ever heard of a fast twitch muscle fiber?  An olympic lift, e.g. a power clean, snatch, or jump squat?  These are done at low reps and they build the explosive fast twitch muscle fibers for sprinting. 

  So sprinters do sets of squats with 500 lbs for doubles and triples like powerlifters, huh? This is the stupidest thing you've ever claimed, and that's saying something. Sprinters actually emphasize speed and high reps and not heavy weights. They need to be fast, and an increase in muscle mass makes you heavier, which is counterproductive to speed.

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Sorry, but large bones alone do not account for 250lb linebackers being muscular and lean.  Someone who is 250lbs and runs a 4.5 40 yard dash does not train like a bodybuilder.  See above bried fast twitch muscle fiber analysis.

  Another retarded example from a retarded guy. the Linebacker weights 250 lbs because he's tall and has lots of muscle because his bones are huge. It's not the bones per se that give him the weight, moron, but the large muscle mass those bones support. He has as much muscle as the bodybuilder, but the bodybuilder packs a much greater muscular development because he's shorter with a smaller frame, and thus his potential to carry muscle is much smaller. Pound for pound, his bones support a lot more muscle than the foorball player. Now STFU retard. Your stupidity bores me.

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Perhaps this is all too complicated for you.

  Like I said, your arrogant attitude doesen't suit you because you're stupid. The problem that I have with you is not your low intelligence, but your other character flaws like being spiteful and prepotent.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Royal Lion

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #58 on: June 18, 2009, 09:12:31 PM »
If you think olympic sprinters train multiple sets for 6-8 reps then this debate is far too advanced for you.  For fucksake, powerlifters and olympic lifters stress fast twitch muscle fibers - you know the explosive ones  - and to effectively do this requires low reps with heavy weight.  Are you missing something with this relatively basic concept?

You can search this board yourself and find the recent Dorian seminar where he specifically states that he recommends HIT training for EVERYONE.  His 3 sets includes a pure warm-up followed by a more intense set and then a final set to failure.  This 3 set workout = low volume. 

Lol...I linebacker has lots of muscle because he is tall and has big bones?? 

Here is your quote: "the Linebacker weights 250 lbs because he's tall and has lots of muscle because his bones are huge. It's not the bones per se that give him the weight, moron, but the large muscle mass those bones support. He has as much muscle as the bodybuilder, but the bodybuilder packs a much greater muscular development because he's shorter with a smaller frame, and thus his potential to carry muscle is much smaller. Pound for pound, his bones support a lot more muscle than the foorball player. Now STFU retard. Your stupidity bores me." 

WTF are you saying here??  The linebacker has more muscle, but the bodybuilder has more muscular development?  Which bodybuilder are we talkin about?  So you are saying that Flex Wheeler has more muscle than say a prime Gunter because he was shorter and had a smaller frame?  Nice logic there.  So, the shorter smaller framed guys always have more muscle despite being outweighed by 40-50lbs? 

Arrogant attitude....you are quite the hypocrite there.  Now go SUCK YOUR OWN MUSCLE

Dballn247

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2009, 09:47:47 PM »
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suckmymuscle

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #60 on: June 18, 2009, 09:49:27 PM »
If you think olympic sprinters train multiple sets for 6-8 reps then this debate is far too advanced for you.  For fucksake, powerlifters and olympic lifters stress fast twitch muscle fibers - you know the explosive ones  - and to effectively do this requires low reps with heavy weight.  Are you missing something with this relatively basic concept?

You can search this board yourself and find the recent Dorian seminar where he specifically states that he recommends HIT training for EVERYONE.  His 3 sets includes a pure warm-up followed by a more intense set and then a final set to failure.  This 3 set workout = low volume. 

Lol...I linebacker has lots of muscle because he is tall and has big bones?? 

Here is your quote: "the Linebacker weights 250 lbs because he's tall and has lots of muscle because his bones are huge. It's not the bones per se that give him the weight, moron, but the large muscle mass those bones support. He has as much muscle as the bodybuilder, but the bodybuilder packs a much greater muscular development because he's shorter with a smaller frame, and thus his potential to carry muscle is much smaller. Pound for pound, his bones support a lot more muscle than the foorball player. Now STFU retard. Your stupidity bores me." 

WTF are you saying here??  The linebacker has more muscle, but the bodybuilder has more muscular development?  Which bodybuilder are we talkin about?  So you are saying that Flex Wheeler has more muscle than say a prime Gunter because he was shorter and had a smaller frame?  Nice logic there.  So, the shorter smaller framed guys always have more muscle despite being outweighed by 40-50lbs? 

Arrogant attitude....you are quite the hypocrite there.  Now go SUCK YOUR OWN MUSCLE

  "Royal Lion", you are laughable. Just laughable. I literally laughed out loud at this post of yours. A true Down's Syndrome sufferer who learned how to log in to the net.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

suckmymuscle

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2009, 09:55:28 PM »
  I'm still shaking my head in disbelief at Royal Lion's example of the sprinter, since:

  1. Sprinters don't train like powerlifters, so even if they were huge his point would be irrelevant, and...

  2. Bodybuilders who train with multiple sets have much larger muscle mass than sprinters, even in the quads.

  I have difficulty understanding retard logic. Can someone explain why he brought this up in the first place?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Royal Lion

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2009, 12:13:28 AM »
  I'm still shaking my head in disbelief at Royal Lion's example of the sprinter, since:

  1. Sprinters don't train like powerlifters, so even if they were huge his point would be irrelevant, and...

  2. Bodybuilders who train with multiple sets have much larger muscle mass than sprinters, even in the quads.

  I have difficulty understanding retard logic. Can someone explain why he brought this up in the first place?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

I am not asserting that volume training does not create muscle hypertrophy; however, I am asserting that low reps with high weights (less volume) can be and is equally effective.

Sprinters focus primarily on olympic lifts, e.g. power cleans, push press, snatches, etc., but also do a lot of deadlifting and squatting with LOW reps at HIGH weight.  This is to maximize fast twitch muscle fibers for explosive power.  Sprinters DO NOT train like bodybuilders - their workouts are much more similar to powerlifting.  And, duh, sprinters focus primarily on running - so of course they do not have the size of either a powerlifter or bodybuilder, but are nonetheless muscular (see pics).

This is relevant to our discussion because it proves that lower volume training does effectively build muscle.

You are seriously embarrassing yourself man.  Do a little research, educate yourself just a little with the basics of training, and then get back to me.  Honestly, spend two seconds of your ignorant time doing this before you get on here and attempt to insult me. 

Here is some simple reading to bring you up to speed:

Taken from http://www.therunnersguide.com/weighttrainingforsprinters/A

sprinter’s legs are usually much more muscular than the legs of any other types of runners. This is because the sprinter gains a great deal of power from the legs and building up these muscles helps to give him the explosiveness he needs to propel himself over the course as quickly as possible. Weight lifting exercises which are active but also focus on the lower body are very important for sprinters. This includes exercises such as weighted lunges and weighted squats. When performing these exercises sprinters should be focusing on using heavier weights and performing fewer repetitions. This will help to encourage muscle growth which is necessary for improved speed.

Taken from: http://www.criticalbench.com/build_muscle_olympic_style2.htm

If you took a survey of most average guys I am willing to bet that 99.9% of them would choose to look like an Olympic sprinter over just about any other physique option you gave them. Lean muscular and athletic lookingSo how do you build that kind of functional, muscular physique? Well first of all you need to train with the intention of targeting the fast twitch muscle fibers. This can be done by using heavy weights for relatively low reps and lifting explosively. Stick with compound exercises like cleans, snatches, push presses, squats and deadlifts. Always accelerate as fast as you can on the concentric, or lifting portion, of every set and control the eccentric, or lowering portion, in one to two seconds. Never waste time with slow lifting speeds, especially on the way up. That limits the amount of weight you can lift and is completely unnatural. In real life if you bent over to pick up a box, would you take four seconds to lift it up off the ground and eight seconds to put it back down? Of course not. Muscles are made for speed; don’t force them to do something they don’t want to do by lifting slowly. Train slow, get slow. Remember that.

Here is an interesting forum discussion on the topic: http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/powerlifting_olympic_lifting


pumpster

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2009, 12:43:56 AM »
 He's not my idol. Dorian did 3 sets per exercise for the first 9 years of his career. He also used massive amounts of drugs. Furthermore, after so many years of training he achieved an incredible neuromuscular efficiency which allowed him to stress muscle fibers to a much higher degree than what an average Joe can.

Brutal incorrect cause/effect conclusions, as one expects from sucky. It's called living in your own world answerable to no one except the little voices within the head. :'(

It's always the novices who try to separate the drug users from naturals, as if the entire world of training stands on it's head simply due to drugs when in fact the fundamentals stay the same. The drugs only further the same effects.

Yates was doing 2 sets per exercise, not 3, which is low volume.

The theory about Yates being more efficient is pure speculation, sucky trying desperately to draw conclusions.

Sprinter analogy is a good example and stands.

io856

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2009, 12:49:27 AM »
Brutal incorrect cause/effect conclusions, as one expects from sucky. It's called living in your own world answerable to no one except the little voices within the head. :'(

It's always the novices who try to separate the drug users from naturals, as if the entire world of training stands on it's head simply due to drugs when in fact the fundamentals stay the same. The drugs only further the same effects.

Yates was doing 2 sets per exercise, not 3, which is low volume.

The theory about Yates being more efficient is pure speculation, sucky trying desperately to draw conclusions.
Its funny because Dorian said that exact same thing about addressing drug use in bodybuilding. He says its still your own  body's functions that build muscle etc...

As far as low volume I'm not sure if its optimal... but what I do know that splitting up my previous volume into maximal sets during "low volume sessions" helped me gain  an assisted 60lbs over 6 months...

I think suckmymuscle is onto something when he talks about acquiring the strength adaptations and then doing some sort of high volume work...

Royal Lion

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2009, 12:57:11 AM »
After the Dorian/Ronnie debate here I am siding with Pumpster....go figure  :)

For always claiming "I own Blood & Guts" one would that ISUCKMYMUSCLE would realize that even 3 sets per exercise, including warm-ups is relatively low volume.  He is so caught up in feeding his false sense of security by insulting everyone else that he overlooks simple, basic concepts.

As for roids vs. natural, I think a natty will see better results with higher intensity, less volume, and more recovery; although I do agree that periodization is best at some point to keep muscles from adapting to a particular program.

io856

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2009, 12:59:01 AM »
Didn't Dorian pride himself on the fact that he spent a large amount of time studying the works of Arthur Jones and the HIT protocol before really ever even getting into training... ?

jon cole

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2009, 01:01:08 AM »
that's why i do powerlifting cycle from september to march, and bodybuilding style for the rest of years...
asstropin

io856

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2009, 01:02:08 AM »
that's why i do powerlifting cycle from september to march, and bodybuilding style for the rest of years...
You have a very good physique too... I like the look

Royal Lion

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2009, 01:03:16 AM »
that's why i do powerlifting cycle from september to march, and bodybuilding style for the rest of years...
During which phase do you gain the most muscle? I'm sure the major strength gains occur during the powerlifting phase.

io856

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2009, 01:05:45 AM »
During which phase do you gain the most muscle?
I would say both phases would have a contributing effect.

like if he gains the most during the volume phase... would the gains be the same without the neuromuscular gains during the strength phase?

suckmymuscle

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2009, 01:06:11 AM »
I am not asserting that volume training does not create muscle hypertrophy; however, I am asserting that low reps with high weights (less volume) can be and is equally effective.

  This is easily demonstrable as being false by pointing out that powerlifters have less muscle mass than bodybuilders despite being stronger, and that the most common complain from those who do one-set-to-failure is that they experience strengh gains but little gains in muscle mass.

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 Sprinters focus primarily on olympic lifts, e.g. power cleans, push press, snatches, etc., but also do a lot of deadlifting and squatting with LOW reps at HIGH weight.  This is to maximize fast twitch muscle fibers for explosive power.  Sprinters DO NOT train like bodybuilders

  When did I say they train like bodybuilders? I said their weight training is more similar to that of bodybuilders than that of powerlifters. And sprinters do a lot of volume. If you assume that each step running is a rep, they do literally hundreds in sequence.

  And again, this example of yours does nothing to disprove my theory. Do sprinters have as much muscle mass as bodybuilders? No, they don't. Not even in the quads. Compare the quads of a sprinter on steroids, like Ben Johnson, to that of a pro bodybuilder and the bodybuilder has a lot more muscle. In the case of sprinters, though their relative lack of muscle mass is not due to a lack of volume in training, but too much volume. They consume all the ATP and glycogen and then the muscle itself is cannibilized to generate energy. Their training is high intensity, but the volume is too high. A more extreme example are distance runners, who actually have less muscle overral than a sedentary individual due to the high volume of training. They are the etremee opposite of the powerlifter. You: fail.

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- their workouts are much more similar to powerlifting.  And, duh, sprinters focus primarily on running - so of course they do not have the size of either a powerlifter or bodybuilder, but are nonetheless muscular (see pics).

  Then why did you bring up this stupid example, genius? How can you know if their muscle mass is the result of heavy weights and low reps or from the, you know, sprinting they do? The last time I checked, sprinting or even 100 meters involves a pretty high level of volume, given that you'll move each of your legs as much as 100 times? And if sprinters do heavy weights with low reps and yet have less muscle mass than bodybuilders, even in the quad department, then how does this prove that heavy weights with low volume work more for mass? For fuck sake, you are dumb. You: fail again.

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This is relevant to our discussion because it proves that lower volume training does effectively build muscle.

  Of course it does, idiot. I never claimed otherwise. Powerlifters have a lot more muscle than sedentary people. It does not, however, build muscle as effectively as multiple sets with higher volume. That is my point. You'll need big pec and triceps muscles to bench 600 lbs even for a single rep; however, benching 400 lbs for 10 will require more because the physiological strain that number of reps imposes exceeds what the muscle can deal with in terms of ATP storage and clearance o lactic acid. Fail. Again.

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You are seriously embarrassing yourself man.  Do a little research, educate yourself just a little with the basics of training, and then get back to me.  Honestly, spend two seconds of your ignorant time doing this before you get on here and attempt to insult me.  

  You can't even properly understand the articles you post, and you tell me that I am being embarassed?

Here is some simple reading to bring you up to speed:

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sprinter’s legs are usually much more muscular than the legs of any other types of runners. This is because the sprinter gains a great deal of power from the legs and building up these muscles helps to give him the explosiveness he needs to propel himself over the course as quickly as possible.

  No, the reason why the legs of distance runners are smaller than that of sprinters is because the amount of volume they do is counterproductive to muscle gains. The superior muscle mass o sprinters results from:

 - Lower volume of work which depletes less of the body's reserves and

 - The speed of muscular contraction.

  Contracting your muscles faster has the same effect of increasing the number of reps: it imposes a strain on the ability of the muscle fiber to contract with enough force with the maximum neuronal output it has and energy reserves, so the muscle fiber needs to increase in size to deal with the stress.

  And again, how is the sprinter's traning evidence that heavy weights with low volume works? You'd need to demonstrate that it works better than multiple sets like bodybuilders do. But it doesen't. So your point, once again, is retarded. You. Fail. Again.

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 Weight lifting exercises which are active but also focus on the lower body are very important for sprinters. This includes exercises such as weighted lunges and weighted squats. When performing these exercises sprinters should be focusing on using heavier weights and performing fewer repetitions. This will help to encourage muscle growth which is necessary for improved speed.

  Funny that Ben Johnson did sets of 15 reps, and did exercises like leg extensions. But I digress. What evidence does the author of the article give to support his claim? How many are "lower" reps? My guess is that what he's really saying is to do 6 to 8 reps instead of 15. This is not powerlifting training. And you can bet your ass that sprinters do multiple sets. But in any case, they most certainly do less volume than bodybuilders because they need their energy for sprinting. And it shows, because they have less muscle than the bodybuilders. And lower reps do build mass better starting at some point. Over 15 reps the volume of stress exceeds ATP stores completely and muscle tissue startes to be canibilized for fuel. So doing lower reps than that will work for mass whilst 15+ reps will work for endurance. You didn't make clear when the guy said that lower reps will build muscle better below which point he was talking. Lower than what? You: fail: moron.

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If you took a survey of most average guys I am willing to bet that 99.9% of them would choose to look like an Olympic sprinter over just about any other physique option you gave them.

  And what the fuck has this got to do with anything? This discussion is about what method of training results in the most muscle mass, not about what physique most people want to have. If you go by that criteria, then most people would want to have Hugh Jackman's physique and not that of any athlete. Your point is? Oh, right: you have none. As usual.

Lean muscular and athletic lookingSo how do you build that kind of functional, muscular physique? Well first of all you need
Here is an interesting forum discussion on the topic:

  More irrelevant garbage that has nothing to do with the topic under contention. Epic fail.

SUCKMYMUSCLE



jon cole

  • Getbig IV
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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2009, 01:06:25 AM »
Holy shit - where to start with your epic lack of common sense. 

Dorian Yates - he started training at a relatively late age and began competing shortly thereafter;  from his early Olympia days he was known as a low volume lifter.  In 93 for instance he was only spending 3.5 hrs per week in the gym.  Not sure where your getting the 9 years of high volume from?

Football players - how many linebackers in the NFL weigh more than 250?  How many are lean?  How many train like a bodybuilder?

Track & Field - look at an olympic sprinter?  how about a shotput thrower?  Javeline?  Hammer throw?  All carry tons of muscle and don't train like a bodybuilder. 

The bottom line is that regardless of volume a muscle will grow if it is torn down and then repaired.  I agree that muscles also respond to high volume training; however, I disagree that this method is predominatly better than strength training.

And yes, genius, I understand your point about Flex's relative higher amount of muscle.  However, it is pure speculation to assume that.  To sit on here and insult others based on what is nothing more than a guess on your part makes little sense.



FUCK.
you're speaking about guy using high dose of aas and gh.

i think the topic is for natural guy.
whatever you training style you can gain muscle with 20ui gh /day and 1000 mg of test e a week.
asstropin

io856

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Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2009, 01:08:10 AM »


FUCK.
you're speaking about guy using high dose of aas and gh.

i think the topic is for natural guy.
whatever you training style you can gain muscle with 20ui gh /day and 1000 mg of test e a week.
Yes, but which training protocol would produce the greater muscle building effect...

Most bodybuilders and powerlifters who are worth looking twice at are using drugs simple fact...

suckmymuscle

  • Guest
Re: The Reason Why Muscles Don't Grow With Low Volume.
« Reply #74 on: June 19, 2009, 01:12:49 AM »
Brutal incorrect cause/effect conclusions, as one expects from sucky. It's called living in your own world answerable to no one except the little voices within the head. :'(

It's always the novices who try to separate the drug users from naturals, as if the entire world of training stands on it's head simply due to drugs when in fact the fundamentals stay the same. The drugs only further the same effects.

Yates was doing 2 sets per exercise, not 3, which is low volume.

The theory about Yates being more efficient is pure speculation, sucky trying desperately to draw conclusions.

Sprinter analogy is a good example and stands.

  You are biased against me, and will claim anything to try to discredit me because I fucked youn up the ass in the truce thread more times than you can count. Dorian recommends three working sets for begginers in Blood&Guts. And the sprinter example is terrible in both ways because first of all they have less mass than bodybuilders who do multiple sets, and second their training has an excess of volume compared to that of powerlifters which makes their training more simillar to that of a bodybuilder.

SUCKMYMUSCLE