Author Topic: chemically enhance my obese friend...  (Read 3140 times)

ksa_triceps

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chemically enhance my obese friend...
« on: June 18, 2009, 04:25:50 PM »
a friend of mine is about 160kgs/350lbs @5"7 and is obviously obese. he's on 200mgs of Thyroxine T4 at the moment, as he suffers from lazy thyroid function.

his wedding is in a couple of months and he needs to lose some weight. the problem is that he has hernia in his abdominal area, so he can't do much exercising (he never touched a weight btw).

i wanted to give me his some T3 to boost his metabolism, and fix his diet. any ideas on what he should take and maybe an outline of a possible diet?

callmetater

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 04:48:34 PM »
dude needs a keto diet and treadmill more than anything.  aas will give the boy a heart attack...

ksa_triceps

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2009, 05:39:53 AM »
dude needs a keto diet and treadmill more than anything.  aas will give the boy a heart attack...

cheers. the treadmill will put pressure on his spine and knees. i was thinking of dropping his weight first, then going for the cardio solution.

ideas?

1-503rd_IN

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2009, 07:58:14 AM »
AAS should be the last thing he should consider, he should go on a STRICT diet and watch that America's biggest losers show. Not juice for "tons of fun".....
First Rock

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2009, 08:11:31 AM »
cheers. the treadmill will put pressure on his spine and knees. i was thinking of dropping his weight first, then going for the cardio solution.

ideas?

After my back surgery I gain a lot of weight. I my knees weren't used to that much weight (and they're already worn from 14yrs of rugby) and would KILL me after the treadmill. Elliptical and swimming were my friend.

Swimming the most though. FULL body workout. I would Sprint down the lane..slow swim back..repeat for 30 min and you will feel your heart pounding out of your chest. GREAT workout and really easy on the joints.

I also calorie restricted to 2000 cals, high protein / low carb (under 100g per day after first two weeks of NO carbs)

local hero

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2009, 09:38:12 AM »
yet again,,, people giving thyroid advice that could realy fuck somone up... might aswell get him some dnp, that would realy get him ripped/dead

as your freind cant do enough work to burn that weight off, he needs to cut his cals down drasticly, id even go zero carbs, just carboniforous greens and lean white meat/fish with efa's....

for the chemical side, maybe clen.. eca might be too hard on his heart at that weight, possibly a low dose to try out..

replacing all his drinks with green tea or plain water would be a big help too

he needs to find somthing that he can do that doesnt stress his hernia, swimming, walking etc etc


tbombz

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 10:16:39 AM »
t3/t4...clen...test/tren with optional ai.... apsrin... caffiene..fish oil.... controlled calorie diet with adequate protein and alot of veggies and water... cycle carbs... use low dose slin with carb intake......


Luv2Hurt

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 04:25:01 PM »
a friend of mine is about 160kgs/350lbs @5"7 and is obviously obese. he's on 200mgs of Thyroxine T4 at the moment, as he suffers from lazy thyroid function.

his wedding is in a couple of months and he needs to lose some weight. the problem is that he has hernia in his abdominal area, so he can't do much exercising (he never touched a weight btw).

i wanted to give me his some T3 to boost his metabolism, and fix his diet. any ideas on what he should take and maybe an outline of a possible diet?

Who the heck is marrying this guy?  Sounds like nothing but trouble

SamoanIrishman

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local hero

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2009, 03:05:36 AM »
t3/t4...clen...test/tren with optional ai.... apsrin... caffiene..fish oil.... controlled calorie diet with adequate protein and alot of veggies and water... cycle carbs... use low dose slin with carb intake......




your a moron........ advising insulin use, in  an obese non bodybuilder...

do you look like a bodybuilder yet?

jayfromeurope

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2009, 04:25:31 AM »
t3/t4...clen...test/tren with optional ai.... apsrin... caffiene..fish oil.... controlled calorie diet with adequate protein and alot of veggies and water... cycle carbs... use low dose slin with carb intake......



Why do bodybuilder take aspirin ? Is there any reason except for the blood ?

thanks
J

tbombz

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2009, 07:26:29 PM »

your a moron........ advising insulin use, in  an obese non bodybuilder...

do you look like a bodybuilder yet?
ill overlook your "insult"... and try to help you learn... answer the question, then ill give you another "hint"...... what does insulin do to blood glucose levels?

darmhok

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2009, 01:57:01 AM »

your a moron........ advising insulin use, in  an obese non bodybuilder...

do you look like a bodybuilder yet?

yeah that is INCREDIBLY STUPID, telling a fat guy to use insulin

then that "guy" posts this:
ill overlook your "insult"... and try to help you learn... answer the question, then ill give you another "hint"...... what does insulin do to blood glucose levels?

um yeah insulin makes your blood glucose drop. what are you hinting at. oh wait i know you must think that the glucose disappears? is that the hint? that you think glucose disappears then he will 'magically' drop weight from disappearing glucose. Well the blood glucose drops cause insulin turns glucose into long-chain triglycerides (fat) which are then immediatey deposited as bodyfat. now EXTREMLY careful insulin use along with a host of other drugs can result in dramatic muslce with no fat gain. this fat guy is not active, and does not take other crap. insulin will make him fat - thats called BIOLOGY.

local hero

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2009, 05:10:48 AM »
i didnt know the exact sceince behind that,,, but i did know that it will make you fat unless you are in perfect sync with your hormones, training and deit,, ie a top competitor who knows his body inside and out...

i realy dont like any posts involving thyroid or insulin use in people who dont realy need it, when theres much safer options, keep that for the extreme end of the scale.. AND advising its use in a complete beginner is downright moronic and possibly deadly..you son ,are a complete clown

ive competed at a national level several times, ive got many freinds who still do and i still dont think insulin or other extreme methods are needed unless your goin for a pro card..


i take you still dont look like a bodybuilder either....

Luv2Hurt

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2009, 06:03:00 AM »
I agree, the advice to give some fat guy off the street insulin and other drugs is a bad idea.  Seems TBZ feels everyone is out to be the next Mr. O or something.  He is it sounds under the care of a doctor for his thyroid now.

Best thing for that fat guy would be as stated above, chain him to a treadmill and ration his food and drink.  Bet the slob eats and drinks all kinds of crap, probally guzzles Pepsi, milk and beer.  Probably eats a box of cereal a day and thinks its healthy cause it's "Raisin Bran"

Oh yeah I also forgot to say lets keep the name calling to a minimum.

tbombz

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2009, 11:04:12 AM »
yeah that is INCREDIBLY STUPID, telling a fat guy to use insulin

then that "guy" posts this:
um yeah insulin makes your blood glucose drop. what are you hinting at. oh wait i know you must think that the glucose disappears? is that the hint? that you think glucose disappears then he will 'magically' drop weight from disappearing glucose. Well the blood glucose drops cause insulin turns glucose into long-chain triglycerides (fat) which are then immediatey deposited as bodyfat. now EXTREMLY careful insulin use along with a host of other drugs can result in dramatic muslce with no fat gain. this fat guy is not active, and does not take other crap. insulin will make him fat - thats called BIOLOGY.
at leats you got my question right! insulin makes blood glucose drop.

blood glucose drops because glucose is stuffed into muscle in the form of glycogen. insulin makes you fat, only when you are eating fat.

now... lets think about whats the difference between normal blood glucose, elevated blood glucose, and below normal blood glucose.  normal blood glucose levels have a pretty balance effect of fat/glycogen metabolism in the body. elevated levels put most of the body towards glucose.glycogen. below normal levels puts most of the body towards fat metabolism.

when dieting, you want your body to use fat for fuel. you want it to use, more specifically body fat. how do you get this to happen? well, it cant happen unless blood glucose/insulin is normal or below normal... however it much better to have it below normal, as this is much more protein sparing, and much quicker fat loss. and thats the point of every diet..spare muscle while burning fat.

now... carbs and insulin are still needed when dieting. without them you will not end up as full of a body as you could have. the glycogen gives yoru body a source of glucose to use instead of amino acids when BG is low or normal(normal BG means no glucose is entering the body and body is using metabolic hormones to convert body stores iinto glucose at a perfect rate to keep BG at the perfect level). the insulin shoves amino acids into muscle, and also primes up your body for fat metabolism...by inhibiting cortisol, increasing thyroid hormones, increasing water content in muscle...etc. 

but carbs , when eaten, raise blood sugar. which is not what we want when trying to drop fat! so how do we get carbs and still drop fat... well it seems the best way to do it is the carbs in to the muscle and out of the bloodstream as fast as posisble, this way you have the least amount of time with elevated BG and insulin as possible.... and consequently, when BG rises high, generally a period of hypoglycemia occurs shortly after....as a result of too much insulin for the load of carbs (because a greta amount of BG is rising quickly, body assumes a really big load of carbs is coming... )


however the body only release certain amount of slin and certain amount of counteracting hormones...and generally the spike inslin and the drop in BG are very small and unconsequential and BG stays elevated for quite some time



darmhok

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2009, 12:01:10 AM »

blood glucose drops because glucose is stuffed into muscle in the form of glycogen. insulin makes you fat, only when you are eating fat.

lol dude i dont care how many posts you have or what guys pic is on your avatar - you are a FOOL. i truely hope that no 'young buck' on this board listens to anything you say.

taken from: http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/pancreas/insulin_phys.html

Insulin and Lipid Metabolism

The metabolic pathways for utilization of fats and carbohydrates are deeply and intricately intertwined. Considering insulin's profound effects on carbohydrate metabolism, it stands to reason that insulin also has important effects on lipid metabolism. Important effects of insulin on lipid metabolism include the following:

Insulin promotes synthesis of fatty acids in the liver. As discussed above, insulin is stimulatory to synthesis of glycogen in the liver. However, as glycogen accumulates to high levels (roughly 5% of liver mass), further synthesis is strongly suppressed.

When the liver is saturated with glycogen, any additional glucose taken up by hepatocytes is shunted into pathways leading to synthesis of fatty acids, which are exported from the liver as lipoproteins. The lipoproteins are ripped apart in the circulation, providing free fatty acids for use in other tissues, including adipocytes, which use them to synthesize triglyceride.

Insulin inhibits breakdown of fat in adipose tissue by inhibiting the intracellular lipase that hydrolyzes triglycerides to release fatty acids.

Insulin facilitates entry of glucose into adipocytes, and within those cells, glucose can be used to synthesize glycerol. This glycerol, along with the fatty acids delivered from the liver, are used to synthesize triglyceride within the adipocyte. By these mechanisms, insulin is involved in further accumulation of triglyceride in fat cells.

From a whole body perspective, insulin has a fat-sparing effect. Not only does it drive most cells to preferentially oxidize carbohydrates instead of fatty acids for energy, insulin indirectly stimulates accumulation of fat in adipose tissue.

taken from: http://weightoftheevidence.blogspot.com/2005/09/insulin-fat-storage-fat-use-for-energy.html

Insulin: Fat Storage - Fat Use for Energy
Researchers at the University of California, San Diego (UCSD) School of Medicine have reported in RxPG News that chronically high levels of insulin, as is found in many people with obesity and Type II diabetes, may block specific hormones that trigger energy release into the body. In other words, high insulin levels inhibit the use of body fat for energy in the body.

The researchers found in their studies that high levels of insulin can block stress hormones known as catecholamines, which normally cause the release of cellular energy. Adrenaline is the best known example of a catecholamine. For normal metabolism to occur, the body needs a balanced input of insulin and catecholamines. One of the actions of insulin --, the main energy storage hormone, is to block activation of the protein kinase A (PKA) enzyme. After a meal, insulin levels go up, and the body stores energy primarily as triglycerides, or fat, in adipose tissue to be used later. When energy is needed, catecholamine triggers activation of PKA, and energy is released. But in people with Type II diabetes, the hormonal balance has been thrown off, because the body continues to produce and store more triglyceride instead of breaking down the fat as released energy.

The findings provide additional understanding to the cause and effect occurring when insulin levels are chronically too high. We know that as insulin levels go up and the body loses the ability to effectively use it, so it makes more, bringing insulin levels even higher as the body struggles with what is called insulin resistence. Insulin resistence is a pre-cursor to Type II diabetes.

Overweight and obesity is seen in the vast majority of those with insulin resistence and Type II diabetes due to the chronic storage of fat in the body.

“If insulin levels get too high for too long a time – which happens in many patients with type II diabetes –the normal catecholamine signal that triggers fat breakdown and energy release can be drowned out. This can lead to excessive energy storage in the adipocyte,” said Hupfeld, assistant professor of Medicine in the UCSD Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism and a co-author of the paper. “This may be one reason why chronic obesity and Type II diabetes are often seen together.”

In lay terms, one gets fatter as their ability to effectively use insulin diminishes and their body makes more insulin, thus storing more energy as fat, in an effort to compensate for the insulin resistence. It really is a vicious cycle.

taken from: http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/510/54/

Everyone knows that insulin has potent anabolic effects in the body.  One thing that is greatly misconstrued is its method of action in this respect. 

Insulin is not essentially anabolic to muscle tissue.  However, insulin is anabolic to adipose tissue (fat).  But, with regard to protein, insulin's anabolic action comes from its potent anti-catabolic effect.  That is, protein breakdown is greatly reduced in the presence of insulin, thus accounting for insulin's anti-catabolic actions.

That is, insulin increases the production of ACC2, causing a blunted effect in fatty acids being transferred to the mitochondria.  This results in less fat being burned for energy.  When insulin is elevated in the body, fat loss is blunted because of increased ACC2.

Insulin may thwart low-fat diet: http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/dailydose/11/20/insulin.diet/index.html

http://health.howstuffworks.com/fat-cell2.htm

High Insulin Levels Stop Fat Loss and Cause Weight Gain: http://fitnessblackbook.com/dieting_for_fat_loss/high-insulin-levels-stop-fat-loss-and-cause-weight-gain/

there are hundred more but i am sick of copying pasting.

tboner you are just wrong, and NO amount of arguing, opinions, or feelings is going to change human biology.

abc123

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2009, 03:11:45 AM »
I don't agree with recommending insulin to a newbie fat guy who's trying to drop weight.  It's not necessary or safe.

That being said, what tbombz is saying is not as wrong as you make it out to be.  I'm not knocking you bro, but you can post as many studies as you want, but I can tell you from first hand experience what the results will be if used correctly - and dizzle is not very far off.

I've used tons of insulin preworkout and never had an issue with fat gain - because I don't eat fat while the insulin is active.  I especially love to use insuling while dieting.  It gets my metabolism roaring along and all the carbs go where they are supposed to go.  I can get leaner much quicker.

As we all know, sometimes the real world is much different than what scientific studies portray it to be....can I tell you why?  No, but I know it works that way.

darmhok

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2009, 04:37:00 PM »
I've used tons of insulin preworkout and never had an issue with fat gain - because I don't eat fat while the insulin is active.  I especially love to use insuling while dieting.  It gets my metabolism roaring along and all the carbs go where they are supposed to go.  I can get leaner much quicker.

As we all know, sometimes the real world is much different than what scientific studies portray it to be....can I tell you why?  No, but I know it works that way.

but you are comparing yourself training hard and controlling your eating while using insulin, to that of an already overweight man who does not train or watch his diet using insulin. not a valid comparison

insulin used by any human (who is not diabetic) who does not train or watch his diet will make him fatter without exception.

may i also point out how invalid it is to compare all humans using insulin to your particular insulin use. this is the typical thinking of a person who has no conception of any scientific method. so you say because you (one human)  are able to use insulin and not get fat, that it holds true for all humans (6 billion of them). yeah real scientific comparison.

let me make some examples to further illustrate how ridiculous comparisons like these are.

when people warn of the dangers of smoking, there is always that one smoker who says 'oh yeah well i know a guy who lived to be 100 and smoked since he was 12'. that might be true, but that SINGULAR example doesnt mean that its normal.

i know a guy who is 8 feet tall - does that mean being 8 feet tall is normal?

i know a girl who had 6 fingers at birth - does that men having 6 fingers is normal?

i take insulin and it doesnt make me fat - does that mean that everyone will not get fat from it?

MethodGNA

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2009, 10:21:32 PM »
ill overlook your "insult"... and try to help you learn... answer the question, then ill give you another "hint"...... what does insulin do to blood glucose levels?
;D ;D ;D

haha.....you are a funny guy tbombz

you would all do well to listen to this man when he prostelitizes on the subject of anabolics....he knows his shit

shrek

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2009, 09:31:00 PM »
at leats you got my question right! insulin makes blood glucose drop.

blood glucose drops because glucose is stuffed into muscle in the form of glycogen. insulin makes you fat, only when you are eating fat.

now... lets think about whats the difference between normal blood glucose, elevated blood glucose, and below normal blood glucose.  normal blood glucose levels have a pretty balance effect of fat/glycogen metabolism in the body. elevated levels put most of the body towards glucose.glycogen. below normal levels puts most of the body towards fat metabolism.

when dieting, you want your body to use fat for fuel. you want it to use, more specifically body fat. how do you get this to happen? well, it cant happen unless blood glucose/insulin is normal or below normal... however it much better to have it below normal, as this is much more protein sparing, and much quicker fat loss. and thats the point of every diet..spare muscle while burning fat.

now... carbs and insulin are still needed when dieting. without them you will not end up as full of a body as you could have. the glycogen gives yoru body a source of glucose to use instead of amino acids when BG is low or normal(normal BG means no glucose is entering the body and body is using metabolic hormones to convert body stores iinto glucose at a perfect rate to keep BG at the perfect level). the insulin shoves amino acids into muscle, and also primes up your body for fat metabolism...by inhibiting cortisol, increasing thyroid hormones, increasing water content in muscle...etc. 

but carbs , when eaten, raise blood sugar. which is not what we want when trying to drop fat! so how do we get carbs and still drop fat... well it seems the best way to do it is the carbs in to the muscle and out of the bloodstream as fast as posisble, this way you have the least amount of time with elevated BG and insulin as possible.... and consequently, when BG rises high, generally a period of hypoglycemia occurs shortly after....as a result of too much insulin for the load of carbs (because a greta amount of BG is rising quickly, body assumes a really big load of carbs is coming... )


however the body only release certain amount of slin and certain amount of counteracting hormones...and generally the spike inslin and the drop in BG are very small and unconsequential and BG stays elevated for quite some time



how is it that you post theory stuff that noone in the world does,,,,, where are you coming up with this shit it is so off the wall i hope you dont practice what you preach because you will be fucked in the long run and if you so happen to be right about your BS you will be a pioneer which aint happening

tbombz

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2009, 09:35:16 PM »
;D ;D ;D

haha.....you are a funny guy tbombz

you would all do well to listen to this man when he prostelitizes on the subject of anabolics....he knows his shit
hey man. thanks for the support.  :)



darmhok seems to have a very strong opinion based off of a very elementary understanding of one aspect of a certain hormone.

darmhok

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Re: chemically enhance my obese friend...
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2009, 05:36:01 PM »
hey man. thanks for the support.  :)



darmhok seems to have a very strong opinion based off of a very elementary understanding of one aspect of a certain hormone.
elementary? lol i think all the stuff you post spews from your ALIMENTARY

basically with some simple logic, facts, and links to other studies performed by educated medical professionals, i proved you wrong

you were proved wrong beyond that which a thing can be proven, in computer geek terminology you got 'PWNED'

with no logical retort you resort to attacking the person who proved you wrong

lol if i died today the shit i said is still true