A 7 question challenge for Christians

[MB_722]

this isn't me.

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1. Show me in the Torah, where if we disobey G-d, we will go to Hell?

2. Show me in that same Torah, where we need a Messiah to take away our sins?

3. Show me in the Torah where Human Sacrifice is acceptable to the Living G-d?

4. Show me in the Torah, where an acceptable Sacrifice must be beaten, scourged, and hung on a Tree/Stake?

5. Show me in the Torah where a Messiah will replace the Torah with "Grace"?

6. Show me in the Torah where Salvation comes from any sacrifice?

7. Show me in the Torah where there will be a time where we will rest on Sunday not the Shabbat (Saturday)?

[Butterbean]

this isn't me.

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lol sure OK.  j/k

this isn't me.

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1. Show me in the Torah, where if we disobey G-d, we will go to Hell?

Genesis 2:15-17
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

This means both a spiritual and a physical death.  They are spiritually separated from God at the point that they disobeyed and ate from the tree.  Later, their bodies would die. 

God tossed them out of the Garden and put a guard in front of the tree of life so they wouldn't eat of that tree and thus remain in an eternal state of separation from Him. 

Genesis 3:21-24

The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.  And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."  So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.  After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.


Being separated for eternity from God = hell. 

[Butterbean]

2. Show me in that same Torah, where we need a Messiah to take away our sins?

Genesis3:14-15

 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
       "Cursed are you above all the livestock
       and all the wild animals!
       You will crawl on your belly
       and you will eat dust
       all the days of your life.

 And I will put enmity
       between you and the woman,
       and between your offspring and hers;
       he will crush your head,
       and you will strike his heel."


The offspring = a messiah --> Christ

[Butterbean]

3. Show me in the Torah where Human Sacrifice is acceptable to the Living G-d?

Jesus Christ = God so the cross is not considered a human sacrifice imo.

this isn't me.

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4. Show me in the Torah, where an acceptable Sacrifice must be beaten, scourged, and hung on a Tree/Stake?

No where that I know of.  Not sure what the point of this one is or how it would negate Jesus being the Christ.

Genesis, Numbers and Deuteronomy give identifying prophecies of the coming Messiah (such as HIm being from the seed of Abraham and tribe of Judah, etc) and other OT books not in the Torah prophesy the way he died, but since they are not in the Torah as this guy wants, I won't list them.

[Butterbean]

5. Show me in the Torah where a Messiah will replace the Torah with "Grace"?

Grace was never replaced.  It's always been there and the way of salvation. 

Maybe this guy is confusing Mosaic Law w/God's Grace.

6. Show me in the Torah where Salvation comes from any sacrifice?

It doesn't.  It's through God's Grace, as always. 

7. Show me in the Torah where there will be a time where we will rest on Sunday not the Shabbat (Saturday)?

Wait, first he needs to show me where it says they must rest on Saturday?


Exodus 20:8-10

"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.  Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God.


If I work from Tues - Sun, my Sabbath would be Monday.  Work 6 days then rest...maybe I missed something but I've never understood why people get hung up on the day of the week?

[MCWAY]

Grace was never replaced.  It's always been there and the way of salvation. 

Maybe this guy is confusing Mosaic Law w/God's Grace.



It doesn't.  It's through God's Grace, as always. 





Wait, first he needs to show me where it says they must rest on Saturday?


Exodus 20:8-10

"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.  Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God.


If I work from Tues - Sun, my Sabbath would be Monday.  Work 6 days then rest...maybe I missed something but I've never understood why people get hung up on the day of the week?

Considering it’s called “Shabbat” in Hebrew and “El Sabado” in Spanish, the odds are that the day that we call “Saturday” was intended to be the Sabbath.

I guess since people couldn’t make up their minds whether to worship on Saturday or Sunday, someone came up with the bright idea of taking both days off and starting the work week on Monday.

As for the "Grace" issue, the reason we have that is because Jesus' sacrifice is the ULTIMATE sacrifice. Ever wonder why orthodox Jews, many of whom don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, still aren't slapping cows on the altar (or paying some cash equivalent) every time they commit sin?

It appears that, whether they admit it or not, something has happened in the grand scheme of things that has made hacking up livestock and making priests make petition on behalf of the people unnecessary. We say it was the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[Butterbean]

Interesting, thanks MCWAY!

[MMC78]

STella,

Are you a recovering addict?

Thanks for your response.

[Butterbean]

STella,

Are you a recovering addict?

Thanks for your response.

No...but I am interested why you ask...thanks!

[windsor88]

STella,

Are you a recovering addict?

Thanks for your response.

A Jim Jones follower who spilled her Kool Aid so she was spared to carry on the word.

[MMC78]

No...but I am interested why you ask...thanks!

Thanks for answering my question.  I ask because a large number of very devout Christians that I have met online and in the real world are recovering addicts.  This extends into other religions as well.

[SamoanIrishman]

Considering it’s called “Shabbat” in Hebrew and “El Sabado” in Spanish, the odds are that the day that we call “Saturday” was intended to be the Sabbath.

I guess since people couldn’t make up their minds whether to worship on Saturday or Sunday, someone came up with the bright idea of taking both days off and starting the work week on Monday.

As for the "Grace" issue, the reason we have that is because Jesus' sacrifice is the ULTIMATE sacrifice. Ever wonder why orthodox Jews, many of whom don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, still aren't slapping cows on the altar (or paying some cash equivalent) every time they commit sin?

It appears that, whether they admit it or not, something has happened in the grand scheme of things that has made hacking up livestock and making priests make petition on behalf of the people unnecessary. We say it was the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Actually in back in bible times (hebrew) their days didn't run from Sunrise to sunset. It ran sunset to sunset. Hence when you were designated as "unclean" you were untouchable until after sunset on the given day of your "unclean" punishment was up. For example a woman on her period was designated as "unclean" for 7 days, touching a dead body you were unclean for 2 days etc...this was important because it was a death sentence if you were caught in the temple after becoming or knowing you are "unclean" as designated by law.