Author Topic: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).  (Read 5600 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #50 on: July 03, 2009, 12:43:54 PM »

Are you applying logic to your statement regarding deaths? Are you sure they aren't a result of the social problems of the said country involved? Never happened in Europe I don't think.

No they wouldn't ha ha, that's a great leap and poor logic. Do you not realise the required physical attributes are different, a different type of underlying physique is required. That's what footballers look like they do.

Kobe playing real football would run circles round Ronaldo or Kaka? HAHAHAHA!!! Your soccer lad Donovan would RAPE Kobe no matter how young Kobe started training for soccer (saying he was cloned or something).

The "logic" applied to my statements about player and fan deaths is I've heard of at least one player murdered in South (or Central) America because his team lost a game.  I've also heard of numerous instances of people being trampled to death at soccer matches.  

You can use the word "logic" all you want.  It doesn't prove your point one bit.  What "physical attributes" are you talking about?  There is a pretty small category of physical and mental attributes needed to play any sport.  Which ones are you referring to?  

Have you ever watched Kobe play?  Or the players I mentioned?  

Nordic Superman

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2009, 12:51:56 PM »
The "logic" applied to my statements about player and fan deaths is I've heard of at least one player murdered in South (or Central) America because his team lost a game.  I've also heard of numerous instances of people being trampled to death at soccer matches.  

You can use the word "logic" all you want.  It doesn't prove your point one bit.  What "physical attributes" are you talking about?  There is a pretty small category of physical and mental attributes needed to play any sport.  Which ones are you referring to?  

Have you ever watched Kobe play?  Or the players I mentioned?  

Well, considering real football is a global sport, deaths are likely occur at events simply because of the social issues or level of infrastructure of the countries. The trampled deaths for example were in a poorly developed African country. I'm at a loss why you pressed this point tho, it's kind like an ad hominem attack on footy.

Yes, and no matter how much you think it's based on "opinion" doesn't deviate from the facts. For example, you could say me saying organisms evolve via natural selection is just my opinion, but to be utterly truthful; it's not just my opinion, it's substantiated fact.

If you don't understand the bafflingly huge differences in physical requirements then to discuss that particular issue further would be pointless.

Not once did I say your sports were inferior, the whole premise of this thread was based on the ignorance of an American supremist.

Oh and seriously, to suggest Kobe as a "soccer" player is just ridiculous. You might play the sport, but you seriously don't understand it on the most basic levels to honestly believe him to be a good candidate.
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ToxicAvenger

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #52 on: July 03, 2009, 12:57:46 PM »


 :-X

Eloquence is lost on here I think mate. P.S. congrats in the Twenty20 you twat!


it'd be an insult to Eloquence if i spoke as such referring to baseball or pool  :-\

and thanx!  ;D
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Dos Equis

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #53 on: July 03, 2009, 01:04:54 PM »
Well, considering real football is a global sport, deaths are likely occur at events simply because of the social issues or level of infrastructure of the countries. The trampled deaths for example were in a poorly developed African country. I'm at a loss why you pressed this point tho, it's kind like an ad hominem attack on footy.

Yes, and no matter how much you think it's based on "opinion" doesn't deviate from the facts. For example, you could say me saying organisms evolve via natural selection is just my opinion, but to be utterly truthful; it's not just my opinion, it's substantiated fact.

If you don't understand the bafflingly huge differences in physical requirements then to discuss that particular issue further would be pointless.

Not once did I say your sports were inferior, the whole premise of this thread was based on the ignorance of an American supremist.

Oh and seriously, to suggest Kobe as a "soccer" player is just ridiculous. You might play the sport, but you seriously don't understand it on the most basic levels to honestly believe him to be a good candidate.

"The trampled deaths for example were in a poorly developed African country"??  O Rly?  How about South Africa, Brazil, England, Belgium, Columbia, Russia, Greece, Argentina, and Peru?  http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/africa/05/09/soccer.chronology/

So you say there are different physical attributes required to play soccer, but you can't say what those attributes are?  List/describe those attributes and we can discuss them.  

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2009, 01:10:34 PM »
Toxic, you guys didn't convince me at first, but the performance in the final was something else.

"The trampled deaths for example were in a poorly developed African country"??  O Rly?  How about South Africa, Brazil, England, Belgium, Columbia, Russia, Greece, Argentina, and Peru?  http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/africa/05/09/soccer.chronology/

So you say there are different physical attributes required to play soccer, but you can't say what those attributes are?  List/describe those attributes and we can discuss them.

Aaah OK, I thought you was referring to the recent World Cup qualifier in Africa. It's still a none issue, I honestly don't know what you're getting at? Have there been no deaths in NFL, shootings for instance?

Why are you trying to break this down on a per attribute basis? Players are good as general athletes, speed, endurance along with visions, power, acceleration, finess etc.
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ToxicAvenger

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2009, 01:21:15 PM »
Toxic, you guys didn't convince me at first, but the performance in the final was something else.



the the team would stop playing by politix and actually pick good players instead of alwaysd choosing players that had someone in the govt as a 3rd couzin etc...we might actually win the real world cup...

i will NEVER EVER EVER consider the 20s game as real cricket... >:(
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Dos Equis

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2009, 01:28:19 PM »
Toxic, you guys didn't convince me at first, but the performance in the final was something else.

Aaah OK, I thought you was referring to the recent World Cup qualifier in Africa. It's still a none issue, I honestly don't know what you're getting at? Have there been no deaths in NFL, shootings for instance?

Why are you trying to break this down on a per attribute basis? Players are good as general athletes, speed, endurance along with visions, power, acceleration, finess etc.

I'm sure there has been an instance here or there when an NFL/college football spectator has died over the last 100 years, but it does not happen often.  The most you'll see is a drunk fool getting in a fight and getting kicked out of the stadium.  Definitely no stampedes.  And definitely no murders because a player lost a game.  

The attributes you described (speed, endurance, vision, power, acceleration, and finesse) are the same attributes needed to play football (or basketball for that matter), but there is also a huge mental component.  Let's take, for example, elite running backs in football.  They are incredibly fast, incredibly quick, very strong, have great vision, etc.  Have you ever seen Adrian Peterson of the Minnesota Vikings play?  He's 6'1", 217 pounds, incredibly quick, one of the fastest players in the NFL, can stop and cut on a dime, has outstanding vision, and is very strong.  That's the kind of athlete that plays football at the highest levels in the U.S.  I could list a number of players like him.  I doubt we have a single American soccer player with AP's attributes.  

Also, keep in mind that an NFL running back is trying to avoid getting his block knocked off, while running around, through, over, and/or away from players who are just as athletic (linebackers), fast (defensive backs), and may be 100 pounds heavier (defensive linemen).  He also has to catch the ball, block, and know how to execute well over 100 different plays with a few seconds notice.      

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2009, 01:44:17 PM »
I'm sure there has been an instance here or there when an NFL/college football spectator has died over the last 100 years, but it does not happen often.  The most you'll see is a drunk fool getting in a fight and getting kicked out of the stadium.  Definitely no stampedes.  And definitely no murders because a player lost a game. 
      

1american team playing another...meh...big deal...dosen't evoke enough passion
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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #58 on: July 04, 2009, 04:49:28 AM »
The attributes you described (speed, endurance, vision, power, acceleration, and finesse) are the same attributes needed to play football (or basketball for that matter), but there is also a huge mental component.  Let's take, for example, elite running backs in football.  They are incredibly fast, incredibly quick, very strong, have great vision, etc.  Have you ever seen Adrian Peterson of the Minnesota Vikings play?  He's 6'1", 217 pounds, incredibly quick, one of the fastest players in the NFL, can stop and cut on a dime, has outstanding vision, and is very strong.  That's the kind of athlete that plays football at the highest levels in the U.S.  I could list a number of players like him.  I doubt we have a single American soccer player with AP's attributes.  

Also, keep in mind that an NFL running back is trying to avoid getting his block knocked off, while running around, through, over, and/or away from players who are just as athletic (linebackers), fast (defensive backs), and may be 100 pounds heavier (defensive linemen).  He also has to catch the ball, block, and know how to execute well over 100 different plays with a few seconds notice.      

Try playing in the World Cup final, compsed of 32 of the best soccer nations on Earth - that's REAL competition with the requirement for mental focus, try taking a penalty in the World Cup final. There are specialised players in soccer, it's not every man for himself, defenders, defenders with attack focus (Brazil for example), attacking midfield, holding midfield, defensive midfield, all out strikers, second strikers, play makers, wingers etc. etc. all specialised, all with the ability to turn on a dime.

the the team would stop playing by politix and actually pick good players instead of alwaysd choosing players that had someone in the govt as a 3rd couzin etc...we might actually win the real world cup...

i will NEVER EVER EVER consider the 20s game as real cricket... >:(

True, to be honest it's Americanisation of Cricket, more commercial etc.

1american team playing another...meh...big deal...dosen't evoke enough passion

I agree, great point... how can two American cities evoke as much passion as England vs. Australia, England vs. Germany or Pakistan vs. India.
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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #59 on: July 04, 2009, 08:42:49 AM »
Quote
True, to be honest it's Americanisation of Cricket, more commercial etc.

i call it the mcdonaldization of cricket...and i agree

Quote
I agree, great point... how can two American cities evoke as much passion as England vs. Australia, England vs. Germany or Pakistan vs. India.

there is no patriotism behind a locally played game...i just cant get excited about 1 US team playing another US team...however most American born will never know the thrill of waking up 3 am in the morning..as a kid...no school the next day cause even your parents agree its ok not to go...the smell of breakfast cooking at that time  while the city came alive..the neighbours up...phonecalls coming in from everywhere to makesure you r up...the agony of a single wicket..you being convinced that yourteam is losing or winning cause YOU are in the room...you peeking at every ball thru your fingers..your heart constantly thudding in your chest from fear and excitement...NOW THAT IS CRICKET  8)
..ashes...to ashes..
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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #60 on: July 04, 2009, 09:14:30 AM »
Now, 99% of the time, I am a bleeding heart, whiney, liberal bitch, but I have serious problems with the growing popularity of soccer in America.  Is this a huge sign that immigrants (who dont care at all about america) who have come from poor countries, with no money but to kick round objects around are taking over our nation?  Basketball, baseball, football, volleyball, golf, tennis... these are not 3rd world sports.  They require money, specially built playing areas, equipment, organization. Soccer requires a ball and a hoarde of unsupervised children running around screaming.  Do we really want to become a nation where soccer, the most boring, generic, slow and riot inducing sport is popular?  I think not.

No one who's parents and grandparents were born in america like soccer.

Do you mean football? ???






































































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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #61 on: July 04, 2009, 09:29:00 AM »
i call it the mcdonaldization of cricket...and i agree

there is no patriotism behind a locally played game...i just cant get excited about 1 US team playing another US team...however most American born will never know the thrill of waking up 3 am in the morning..as a kid...no school the next day cause even your parents agree its ok not to go...the smell of breakfast cooking at that time  while the city came alive..the neighbours up...phonecalls coming in from everywhere to makesure you r up...the agony of a single wicket..you being convinced that yourteam is losing or winning cause YOU are in the room...you peeking at every ball thru your fingers..your heart constantly thudding in your chest from fear and excitement...NOW THAT IS CRICKET  8)
..ashes...to ashes..


I fucking love cricket...bring on the Aussies...its ashes time!!!

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #63 on: July 04, 2009, 09:37:02 AM »
I fucking love cricket...bring on the Aussies...its ashes time!!!

well someone here also loves cric as much as i do!  see ya brits in 2011  ;D
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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #64 on: July 04, 2009, 10:51:31 AM »
Try playing in the World Cup final, compsed of 32 of the best soccer nations on Earth - that's REAL competition with the requirement for mental focus, try taking a penalty in the World Cup final. There are specialised players in soccer, it's not every man for himself, defenders, defenders with attack focus (Brazil for example), attacking midfield, holding midfield, defensive midfield, all out strikers, second strikers, play makers, wingers etc. etc. all specialised, all with the ability to turn on a dime.


Do you think it takes more mental focus to play soccer or QB in the NFL? 

Is it more difficult to take a penalty in a soccer match, or for a WR to be hit by a LB or DB while airborne making a catch?  How about a RB getting hit by several guys who outweigh him by 50 to 100 pounds?  What about getting hit while returning a kick or punt by someone who has about a 40 to 50 yard running start?   

Speed, quickness, agility, stopping on a dime, finesse?  Did you ever watch Barry Sanders play?  Take about 3.5 minutes and watch this clip. 


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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #65 on: July 04, 2009, 11:09:25 AM »
i call it the mcdonaldization of cricket...and i agree

there is no patriotism behind a locally played game...i just cant get excited about 1 US team playing another US team...however most American born will never know the thrill of waking up 3 am in the morning..as a kid...no school the next day cause even your parents agree its ok not to go...the smell of breakfast cooking at that time  while the city came alive..the neighbours up...phonecalls coming in from everywhere to makesure you r up...the agony of a single wicket..you being convinced that yourteam is losing or winning cause YOU are in the room...you peeking at every ball thru your fingers..your heart constantly thudding in your chest from fear and excitement...NOW THAT IS CRICKET  8)
..ashes...to ashes..

 ;D

thats like watching a football [soccer] match. nice post!

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #66 on: July 04, 2009, 12:22:02 PM »
Do you think it takes more mental focus to play soccer or QB in the NFL? 

Is it more difficult to take a penalty in a soccer match, or for a WR to be hit by a LB or DB while airborne making a catch?  How about a RB getting hit by several guys who outweigh him by 50 to 100 pounds?  What about getting hit while returning a kick or punt by someone who has about a 40 to 50 yard running start?   

Speed, quickness, agility, stopping on a dime, finesse?  Did you ever watch Barry Sanders play?  Take about 3.5 minutes and watch this clip. 



Apples and Oranges...its like comparing fencing to archery...

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #67 on: July 04, 2009, 12:32:07 PM »
Apples and Oranges...its like comparing fencing to archery...

No it isn't.  Same skill set involved in both sports:  speed, quickness, agility, strength, endurance, vision, finesse, and intelligence.  Football players just require more of each than soccer players. 

Did you watch the clip? 

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #68 on: July 04, 2009, 12:55:16 PM »
No it isn't.  Same skill set involved in both sports:  speed, quickness, agility, strength, endurance, vision, finesse, and intelligence.  Football players just require more of each than soccer players. 

Did you watch the clip? 

I watched the clip a couple of days ago..and being an NFL fan i've watched barry sanders since i was a kid. I also had a season ticket to my club in london for a few years. I was a rugby player, and though ive never played american football, the differences between footbll and rugby are vast. Yes you have to be fast, have good acceleration, be agile, and all the rest of it...I was a shit footie player and a good rugby player. Some of my friends could make the transition, but they tended to be smaller and learn to control their aggression in football...every time i played football I got yellow carded or cautioned. The type of fitness was also very different, I was strugling after 45mins of football but could play 80mins of rugby being smashed left right and center and feel fine. An NFL player would be blowing hard after twenty mins on a football pitch...garunteed.

To put it bluntly players of different sports are tuned to the requirements of that sport. So its not the same skill set, I say this as well to people like Sev who try to compare Rugby and NFL players...different sports, the athletes train for specific requirements. Again with intelligence, the intelligence is completely different, quickness of mind cannot be compared...facing a rush defence in rugby, or a blitz in NFL or a proper zonal system in football are require you to react within a split second if you dont have the intelligent understanding of the game you end up looking like a fool. You cant say an NFL player requires more, no they dont, its just different.

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #69 on: July 04, 2009, 01:03:52 PM »
To clarify my post, I refuse to call football 'soccer'...so translate all references to football as soccer

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #70 on: July 04, 2009, 01:12:43 PM »
I watched the clip a couple of days ago..and being an NFL fan i've watched barry sanders since i was a kid. I also had a season ticket to my club in london for a few years. I was a rugby player, and though ive never played american football, the differences between footbll and rugby are vast. Yes you have to be fast, have good acceleration, be agile, and all the rest of it...I was a shit footie player and a good rugby player. Some of my friends could make the transition, but they tended to be smaller and learn to control their aggression in football...every time i played football I got yellow carded or cautioned. The type of fitness was also very different, I was strugling after 45mins of football but could play 80mins of rugby being smashed left right and center and feel fine. An NFL player would be blowing hard after twenty mins on a football pitch...garunteed.

To put it bluntly players of different sports are tuned to the requirements of that sport. So its not the same skill set, I say this as well to people like Sev who try to compare Rugby and NFL players...different sports, the athletes train for specific requirements. Again with intelligence, the intelligence is completely different, quickness of mind cannot be compared...facing a rush defence in rugby, or a blitz in NFL or a proper zonal system in football are require you to react within a split second if you dont have the intelligent understanding of the game you end up looking like a fool. You cant say an NFL player requires more, no they dont, its just different.

Rugby and football are not in the same universe.  

After reading your post, I would agree that a small portion of the skill set for soccer and football is different.  The endurance for each sport is a bit different.  Football players do get a brief "rest" between each play, while soccer players run a bit more without breaks, although not every player has to constantly sprint.  But the running football players do is much more difficult, because they are wearing a lot of gear, trying to execute plays, and trying to avoid getting whacked (or trying to deliver a blow).  

I do think that because the speed of the game is so much faster in football, the athletes are so much bigger, stronger, and faster, and there is the equivalent of a car crash on every play, the mental aspect (in addition to the physical aspect) is a bigger component in football.  I'm not saying you don't need all of those things in soccer.  Just that there is so much more involved.  

Take the smartest, toughest, biggest studs on the field (fullbacks  :D).  When they huddle before a play, they have about 5 seconds to listen to the play being called.  That is was 1 of over 100 plays.  He then has several seconds to get in the proper formation.  Eyeball the defense.  Recognize the defense.  Know what all other 10 players are going to do on the play.  Listen for an audible, which can change the play in a few seconds.  Keep still (unless he's put in motion) and wait for the right snap count.  Then run block, pass block (including picking up a blitz, if any), carry the ball, or catch the ball.

QBs have an even greater responsibility, except they don't get hit nearly as often.  

I don't think you could take an existing NFL player and put him on soccer field and expect him to thrive, and vise versa.  But I do believe that if players like Barry, Vick, Vernon Davis, LeBron, Rice, Moss, etc., who are just freaks, played soccer from a young age they would dominate the sport.

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #71 on: July 04, 2009, 01:13:37 PM »
To clarify my post, I refuse to call football 'soccer'...so translate all references to football as soccer

To clarify mine, I refuse to call soccer "football," so translate all references to soccer as football.   :D

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2009, 01:24:54 PM »
I don't think you could take an existing NFL player and put him on soccer field and expect him to thrive, and vise versa.  But I do believe that if players like Barry, Vick, Vernon Davis, LeBron, Rice, Moss, etc., who are just freaks, played soccer from a young age they would dominate the sport.

I think there are players in any sport who you know are just naturally gifted and would succeed in any sport they turned their mind to. I agree someone like Michael Vick or Thomlinson would be brilliant at anything they had decided to take up. The same goes for some other sports. I know in england there's a bunch of kids who show promise in a number of sports but by 18 have to make a choice. Some go to cricket, some rugby, some football, some tiddlywinks...its a shame because in sports amateur days you did used to have folks who would play cricket in the summer and then play football in the winter. But its ofcourse impossible to do that now.

I think the last great sportsman i know of was a guy called jeff wilson who played on the wing for the NZ All Blacks (amazing feat in its own) then in summer used to play international cricket...he retired in 2001. I guess Michael Jordan had a try at baseball right? but from what i remember it didnt really work out

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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2009, 01:33:04 PM »
;D

thats like watching a football [soccer] match. nice post!

Thanx!...i remember after a big game ..everyone walking around teary eyed happy! :)
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Re: Soccer's growing popularity in America (yes, political thread).
« Reply #74 on: July 04, 2009, 01:35:35 PM »
I think there are players in any sport who you know are just naturally gifted and would succeed in any sport they turned their mind to. I agree someone like Michael Vick or Thomlinson would be brilliant at anything they had decided to take up. The same goes for some other sports. I know in england there's a bunch of kids who show promise in a number of sports but by 18 have to make a choice. Some go to cricket, some rugby, some football, some tiddlywinks...its a shame because in sports amateur days you did used to have folks who would play cricket in the summer and then play football in the winter. But its ofcourse impossible to do that now.

I think the last great sportsman i know of was a guy called jeff wilson who played on the wing for the NZ All Blacks (amazing feat in its own) then in summer used to play international cricket...he retired in 2001. I guess Michael Jordan had a try at baseball right? but from what i remember it didnt really work out

Yeah.  I agree with this.  The best athletes in this country typically play football or basketball.  I wish more would play tennis, etc., but I doubt that happens anytime soon.    

Jordan sucked at baseball.  Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson did pretty good in baseball, but that's a rarity.  Another DB from Atlanta did it too.  Forget his name.