Let's perfect my 1st cycle!

[Cal_Lifter]

So I am super ecstatic and cannot wait for my order to come in and just want to get some feedback on the finalization of my cycle before I order the rest.

Here is my planned cycle:

weeks 1-10: 500mgs Testoviron depot from Schering
weeks 1-10: .25mgs or .5mgs arimidex (research chem)
weeks 12-15: 120mg/80mg/40mg/20mg Toremifene Citrate (research chem)

Additionally, throughout cycle I plan on running CEL's cycle support for liver and bp support, and I want to mega dose my omegas for my cholesterol, like, 8 grams a day, or so.

In terms of supplementation, what do you guys think?

I wanted to get your guys' feedback on toremifene as opposed to novla; I've read that torm is in fact stronger (get your balls back quicker) and less toxic than nolva. My only hesitation is that it hasn't been logged as much as the 'tried and true' nolva.

Also, would start arimidex in week 1 or wait until say week 3 when the test 'kicks in'?

Lastly, I wanted to ask whether or not you guys thought it would be wise to run some caffeine/bronkaid in and out of the cycle? Now, I know ephedra will raise bp, so I am unsure. I guess my best alternative is synephrine, which I've read doesn't increase bp.

Again, any feedback is greatly appreciated.

[shrek]

So I am super ecstatic and cannot wait for my order to come in and just want to get some feedback on the finalization of my cycle before I order the rest.

Here is my planned cycle:

weeks 1-10: 500mgs Testoviron depot from Schering
weeks 1-10: .25mgs or .5mgs arimidex (research chem)
weeks 12-15: 120mg/80mg/40mg/20mg Toremifene Citrate (research chem)

Additionally, throughout cycle I plan on running CEL's cycle support for liver and bp support, and I want to mega dose my omegas for my cholesterol, like, 8 grams a day, or so.

In terms of supplementation, what do you guys think?

I wanted to get your guys' feedback on toremifene as opposed to novla; I've read that torm is in fact stronger (get your balls back quicker) and less toxic than nolva. My only hesitation is that it hasn't been logged as much as the 'tried and true' nolva.

Also, would start arimidex in week 1 or wait until say week 3 when the test 'kicks in'?

Lastly, I wanted to ask whether or not you guys thought it would be wise to run some caffeine/bronkaid in and out of the cycle? Now, I know ephedra will raise bp, so I am unsure. I guess my best alternative is synephrine, which I've read doesn't increase bp.

Again, any feedback is greatly appreciated.

your cycle is very basic so here we go take adex 1/2 tab 3xweek,,,,, use your cafine and bronkaid throughout the cycle if you want...add some HGC during your cycle

[Cal_Lifter]

Thanks, Shrek. Do you think I could run an ATD product instead of hcg?

[shrek]

Thanks, Shrek. Do you think I could run an ATD product instead of hcg?

im not familiar with that

[dexterJ]

your cycle is great..maybe add some deca for bones if you will do heavy lift...

[MethodGNA]

why would you take any antiestrogen unless you are cutting or have gyno........all it is is an extra chemical that will inhibit your gains..........the anti steroid crowd, and alot fo know nothings on the boards always talk about gyno...........but it happens to a very small percentage of juicers..........usually darker, skinned, oily skinnes types like dark italians or hispanics.  no one i know used estrogen suppressors unless they are really gettin glean for  a show, or are prone to gyno. i have never used them, and have never had gyno.......take that money and get your self another compound, like big bottle of trenbolone, or some dbol. if its you first cycle, that means you do not have gyno already, if 7-8 weeks in you start noticing anything (which you probably wont, and if you do it will be in your mind) take some nolva then.


gyno is very misunderstood, gyno is like a ball, that feels like a hard bean under the nipple.........people when they bulk, gain fat along wiht muscle..........one of the places that males deposit fat is in the brests.......so guys see their chest getting soft and pointy and go "oh shit, i got gyno".........that is not gyno, that is your body depositing fat on your titties..........which will dissappear once you reduce calories and lose the excess fat

remember.........YOUR FIRST CYCLE, IS GOING TO BE LIKELY THE MOST IMPORTANT CYCLE YOU EVER DO IN TERMS OF GAINS......grow as much as you can and lay off all the shit that will inhibit them.....particularly arimidex

[Big Rock.]

  I've never heard that "dark,oily skinned" theory before, but MGNA is correct.

  Don't automatically assume your gonna get gyno. Also don't be concerned about keeping your estrogen level down, your body tends to find its own level to cope with the additional hormone your adding, a small amount of est. is beneficial to a mass cycle. If your nipples are not getting puffy, or your not feeling and looking watery, (you can feel bloat, hands get tight, ankles get puffy. You look smooth and face is round and puffy) Then keep your AI around just in case, but don't automatically add it in.

  As for 8 grams of EFA's ? It ain't gonna hurt ya, but after 4 your kind of spinning your wheels. Do you know that your HDL is naturally low ?  That would be the only reason for all that additional oil. Too much will make your skin oily and may make you prone to pimples.

  IMHO, JUST RUN THE TEST !!  It's your first cycle, see how your body reacts, you can add additional compounds like Deca, Tren, EQ, next time and you'll know what the test did, so you can accurately determine what the newly added compound adds to that...

 Save your nolva, clomid and whatever for PCT...

[Cal_Lifter]

MethodGNA, I don't want  water retention or fat buildup from the test, so I figured an on cycle ai would do the trick. I want lean gains and  lose some fat %.

I remember reading a few threads where people talked about bulkin/cutting drugs and that essentially what everyone agreed on is that any of them can be used for either, and that it just depends on your diet.

Big Rock, you're right, that is a high efa dose and I will bring it down to 4. My cholesterol is really good I just wanted to be extra 'safe'.

[MethodGNA]

MethodGNA, I don't want  water retention or fat buildup from the test, so I figured an on cycle ai would do the trick. I want lean gains and  lose some fat %.

I remember reading a few threads where people talked about bulkin/cutting drugs and that essentially what everyone agreed on is that any of them can be used for either, and that it just depends on your diet.

Big Rock, you're right, that is a high efa dose and I will bring it down to 4. My cholesterol is really good I just wanted to be extra 'safe'.

there is no 'fat build up" from test, the fat build up is from calories.......you can render great lean gains from eating a well   structured  diet with quality excess calories.........lot of people in your situation make this mistake, i did myslelf........when they first go on gear, because they have it in their mind that they now are gonna look liek a bodybuilder, they will clean up their diet to the point, where they are in a calorie deficit.......being that it is your first cycle, truth is, you will still make gains this way.........but you could make twice the gains if you put yourself in a caloric surplus.......that does not mean eat mcdonalds and pizza.......it means eat the shit you would when you diet, just more of it......and change the macro ratios a bit

when it comes to AAS, there is no such thing as "bulking steroids" and "cutting steroids".........all steroids promote greater protein synthesis and hypertrophy...........so me are just stronger then others..........particul arly the heavy androgens, while on these stronger drugs you can gain more weight, but alot of it is from fluid retention........where cuttting drug comes from is the fact that there is less estrogen conversion and in turn less water retention in some anabolics like winstrol, primobolon, and boldenon........but they are all  designed to increase lean mass.

lastly, you seem to have you heart set on taking an AI......once you have been dicking around a couple years, struggling with a plateau, you will wish you laid off of them you first cycle, because you might have ended up 5 or 7 lbs. heavier if you did......but to each his own, good luck.

[Cal_Lifter]

MethodGNA, there's no question you have more experience and knowledge then me.  That's why I'm here.  So with that I am going to take your advice and not run an ai on cycle.  I'll just keep it on hand.

Do you have a recommendation on what size needle syringe? I hear 22 or 23 is good.

Also, do you guys know of the website that gives a step by step guide (with photos) of how to draw the oil out of the vial and insert into the muscle(s)?  I use to have it saved but I don't anymore for some reason and the guide I have now isn't as detailed.

[MethodGNA]

MethodGNA, there's no question you have more experience and knowledge then me.  That's why I'm here.  So with that I am going to take your advice and not run an ai on cycle.  I'll just keep it on hand.

Do you have a recommendation on what size needle syringe? I hear 22 or 23 is good.

Also, do you guys know of the website that gives a step by step guide (with photos) of how to draw the oil out of the vial and insert into the muscle(s)?  I use to have it saved but I don't anymore for some reason and the guide I have now isn't as detailed.

keep the AI around, in case you start develpoing symptoms.......

use 22 or under to draw, 23 or over to inject.........1 1/2 in the glute.......1 inch everywhere else...........unless your a porker

i think drawing the oil out is pretty self explanatory............i f you are drawing 2CCs.......put in 2CCs of air, it will create a vacume...........if you are using a bigger guage needle (under 23) this wont matter

injections sites

http://spotinjections.com/index3.htm

but keep it simple.......ass and thighs

[shrek]

dude there is nothing wrong with running AI's our goal here is to up the test level not estro..... yet it is good to have a bit of estro in the system this hormone has good benefits but being able to lower estro by half will make you feel alot better plus it will keep you dry and for the fat thing yes high levels of estro will cause your fat cells to grow and there is a risk that your body can create more fat cells the reason being is that the fat cells cary a estro receptor

[Van_Bilderass]

and for the fat thing yes high levels of estro will cause your fat cells to grow and there is a risk that your body can create more fat cells the reason being is that the fat cells cary a estro receptor

I don't think so. Estrogen can actually help in losing fat, it's a lipolytic hormone. It only affects the pattern of fat distribution.

[shrek]

I don't think so. Estrogen can actually help in losing fat, it's a lipolytic hormone. It only affects the pattern of fat distribution.

maybe so but they have estro receptors thus meaning elevated estro in system has a greater chance to bind with those receptors causing you know what

[pray4surf]

Take your anti-e's like you should.  Don't wait for symptoms of gyno to begin before starting arimidex or some other anti-e.  You can and will get gyno without warning.  It happened to me and quite a few others I know.  And to think I had a box full of anti-e's but I kept waiting for symptoms.  Once you have it, you will be dealing with it whenever you get on androgenic drugs.  Then you will have 2 options, surgery or deal with it like everybody else.
Think about it man, why go through all that when you have something that can prevent it?

[benchmstr]

dude, your cycle sucks and you should be embarrassed. eating bacon is more anabolic than the cycle you have given!!!

bench

[Cal_Lifter]

thanks, bench, your comment was insightful.

 shouldn't you be looking for a job rather than posting?

[benchmstr]

thanks, bench, your comment was insightful.

 shouldn't you be looking for a job rather than posting?

already got one bro, besides my job isn't my only source of income.

listen to the guys on this thread, and don't waste your money.

bench

[tbombz]

maybe so but they have estro receptors thus meaning elevated estro in system has a greater chance to bind with those receptors causing you know what

your assuming that estrogen, when bound to a fat cell, will cause it to uptake nutrients. but what van told you was the opposite... and he is correct... estrogen causes fat cells to release its fat...


the reason many people think estrogen isnt good for fat loss/staying lean is because androgens are much more potent at getting fat cells to release fat.... but estrogen does it too... just not to the same extent...

[shrek]

your assuming that estrogen, when bound to a fat cell, will cause it to uptake nutrients. but what van told you was the opposite... and he is correct... estrogen causes fat cells to release its fat...


the reason many people think estrogen isnt good for fat loss/staying lean is because androgens are much more potent at getting fat cells to release fat.... but estrogen does it too... just not to the same extent...

i read it in a book so i dont know what to tell yall i mean if the book is totaly wrong then maybe you should reright it

[Cal_Lifter]

Just wanted to give you guys an update, my test came in the mail today!

Perfectly packaged, no broken amps - the package said it was green tea, lol.

Now I have to order my pinz and pct and I'll be set (wanted to make sure my gear came in before I bought everything else).