China & India refuse to go along with USA on climate emissions.

[Soul Crusher]

UPDATE 1-G8 struggles to persuade China, India on climate
Tue Jul 7, 2009 4:22pm EDT  Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page[-] Text

* "Strong resistance" from China - Berlusconi

ROME, July 7 (Reuters) - Rich nations sought to persuade China and India on Tuesday to agree to a goal of halving world greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 at a summit of major economies in Italy later this week.

Environment ministers or senior officials from the 17-member Major Economies Forum (MEF) met in Rome, trying to end deadlock over a declaration that could be a step towards a new U.N. climate pact due to be agreed in Copenhagen in December.

"Positions have not shifted," a delegate said of the talks, called at the last minute to help leaders agree a united front on climate change on Thursday in L'Aquila, Italy, during a Group of Eight summit.

China and India have been opposed to a goal of halving world greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 as part of a declaration by MEF nations, which account for 80 percent of world greenhouse gas emissions.

The G8 countries -- the United States, Japan, Russia, Germany, Britain, France, Italy and Canada -- adopted a "vision" of a 50 percent cut in global emissions by 2050 last year and want major developing nations to sign up too.

But developing nations say the rich are to blame for most emissions from burning greenhouse gases since the Industrial Revolution and must set deep 2020 goals for cutting their own emissions before asking for help with 2050 goals.

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi also told a news conference that China was resisting progress on the climate.

VANGUARD

"Europe wants to be in the vanguard, the Obama administration is in the same position, but there is strong resistance that I have encountered with the Chinese presidency," said Berlusconi, referring to a meeting on Monday.

A June 30 MEF draft drawn up by the United States and Mexico said that: "We support an aspirational global goal of reducing global emissions by 50 percent by 2050, with developed countries reducing emissions by at least 80 percent by 2050."

China and Indian officials have said that poor nations need to be allowed to use more energy to end poverty. China has recently overtaken the United States as top world emitter and India is fourth behind Russia.

If the deadlock persists, U.S. President Barack Obama, who sees the MEF as a step towards a U.N. deal, would end the July 9 meeting with just a "chair's summary" rather than a statement agreed by all 17 MEF leaders.

"Only ambitious action by the G8 could break the deadlock in the negotiations," said Tobias Muenchmeyer of environmental group Greenpeace. He noted that China and India want rich nations to cut emissions by at least 40 percent by 2020 below 1990 levels and far higher climate investments.

A separate climate draft for the G8, dated June 24, indicated progress towards setting a target of limiting a rise in world temperatures to two degrees Celsius (3.6 Fahrenheit) over pre-industrial times.

The European Union views 2C as a threshold for "dangerous" climate changes such as ever more heatwaves, floods, droughts and extinctions. The United States, Russia, Canada and Japan have not signed up for such a target at the G8.

The G8 draft said "global emissions should peak by 2020 and then be substantially reduced to limit the average increases in global temperature to 2 Celsius above pre-industrial levels."

(Editing by Stephen Brown)

________________________ ________________________ ______

At least China and India have not lost their collective minds like we have. 

[the_steevo_uk]

The indians will regret that when they find Bombay, Goa and Calcutta under 15 feet of water 

[Soul Crusher]

The indians will regret that when they find Bombay, Goa and Calcutta under 15 feet of water 

"Global Warming" is not only not occuring, but there is evidence of cooling.  In fact, I have read stories that show that any warming ended in 1998. 

The whole "Climate Change" monvement, which used to be the "Global Warming" movement because it is obvious that Global Warming is not occuring has all of the elements of a religion and cult, which it has become.  In fact, the EPA is even supressing evidence that "Global Warming" is not occuring. 

Every ridiculous prognostication of Al Gore has been proven false and he refuses to debate anyone with an opposing view. 

China and India are smart because they realize that when the economy is suffering the LAST thing anyone with any sense does is cut back on economic production and activity. 

   

[Deicide]

"Global Warming" is not only not occuring, but there is evidence of cooling.  In fact, I have read stories that show that any warming ended in 1998. 

The whole "Climate Change" monvement, which used to be the "Global Warming" movement because it is obvious that Global Warming is not occuring has all of the elements of a religion and cult, which it has become.  In fact, the EPA is even supressing evidence that "Global Warming" is not occuring. 

Every ridiculous prognostication of Al Gore has been proven false and he refuses to debate anyone with an opposing view. 

China and India are smart because they realize that when the economy is suffering the LAST thing anyone with any sense does is cut back on economic production and activity. 

   

I think no one really knows either way. Doesn't matter, we are just one species of many, we're going to go extinct at some point in time.

[Soul Crusher]

The bottom line is that if there is a question as to whether it is happening or not, do you massively tax people and try to re-order your society in a way that may force millions of of work and tremendous hit to GDP?

I simply dont understand these greenies who think that there is some magical "alternative energy" that is going to replace oil and coal right now. 

Its simply not there.   

[the_steevo_uk]

Dude if you think Global warming isnt happening you need to speak to a few folks from lower lyding countries, they're fucking worried about it. Find any dutch person on this board and they'll tell you how serious the problem is. I know here in Israel they also take it very seriously, theres been a noticable change in weather here over the last ten years, and it aint getting any cooler!

[SAMSON123]

The indians will regret that when they find Bombay, Goa and Calcutta under 15 feet of water 

When Bombay, Goa and Mumbai are under water most of coastal america will be under as well.... and that is a good thing being that america is the MAJOR polluter of the world.

[Soul Crusher]

Dude if you think Global warming isnt happening you need to speak to a few folks from lower lyding countries, they're fucking worried about it. Find any dutch person on this board and they'll tell you how serious the problem is. I know here in Israel they also take it very seriously, theres been a noticable change in weather here over the last ten years, and it aint getting any cooler!

The climate has been changing since the earth was formed billions and billions of years ago.  

I have one question, which still has not been answered to my satisfaction:

There were previous ice ages that ended due to warming prior to human beings even being on the planet.  Why did that warming occur?  And, if there is warming now, how can we be sure that any of said warming is any different than that which caused the end of the ice ages?    

[Soul Crusher]

When Bombay, Goa and Mumbai are under water most of coastal america will be under as well.... and that is a good thing being that america is the MAJOR polluter of the world.

Obviously you did not read the article Samson.  Quote:

"China and Indian officials have said that poor nations need to be allowed to use more energy to end poverty. China has recently overtaken the United States as top world emitter and India is fourth behind Russia."


China is the worlds larget polluter. 

[the_steevo_uk]

Obviously you did not read the article Samson.  Quote:

"China and Indian officials have said that poor nations need to be allowed to use more energy to end poverty. China has recently overtaken the United States as top world emitter and India is fourth behind Russia."


China is the worlds larget polluter. 

Get this...If the United Kingdom (the world's fifth biggest economy) were to reduce its carbon output to Zero tomorrow, China's growth would make up that difference in just 18months...fucking scary

[Soul Crusher]

Get this...If the United Kingdom (the world's fifth biggest economy) were to reduce its carbon output to Zero tomorrow, China's growth would make up that difference in just 18months...fucking scary

I realize that.  Do you understand what will happen if all of a sudden millions of brits are out of work because of curbing emissions in the UK, while nations like China are not and their economy is humming along?

Yes the whole thing stinks, but people need to be able to be employed, pay their bills, and be productive, not scavenging forests for for food and wild game because all industry is shut down.     

[James]

The EPA Obama Climate Lie Cabongate

[James]

Suppressing Science in the Obama Administration

[shootfighter1]

Without China being on board, pollution punishing policies are near pointless. As the article says, they are now #1 in emissions.

Climate change is not nearly as exact as politicians are pushing.  Steevo, there has actually been a cooling trend across the globe in the last decade (hence climate change rather than global warming)...but these things happen in cycles.  Many scientists dispute the assertion that man made CO2 causes significant warming.  Many experts believe climate cycles are mainly determined by the sun (and interaction with the earth's oceans).  We need more real scientific debate without the politics or promise of funding.

[James]

Alan Carlin, The Statistics that Debunk Global Warming

&feature=related[/youtube]

[GigantorX]

I thought with Obama as President, the entire world loves us and would follow our shinning path and moralistic examples?

A shame that reality has to get in the way.

[SAMSON123]

Obviously you did not read the article Samson.  Quote:

"China and Indian officials have said that poor nations need to be allowed to use more energy to end poverty. China has recently overtaken the United States as top world emitter and India is fourth behind Russia."


China is the worlds larget polluter. 

WRONG THERE 3 ...China is now the largest CO2 producer becasue they are a manufacturing powerhouse...america is still the largest POLLUTER IN THE WORLD. The difference is america is polluting the atmosphere with all manner of pollutants, Sulphur, Carbon, various petrochemical derivative gases, etc etc. America is still WAAAAAAAAY out in front in regard to OVERALL pollution.

Now here is something to think about. You know that Carbon Dioxide is much heavier than air, yet the masses are constantly being told that Carbon Dioxide is in the upper atmosphere blocking the sunlight and holding in heat. This is IMPOSSIBLE being that carbon dioxide being heavier than air would sink to the ground and the only thing that would happen is the carbon level at ground level would be increasing tremendously. As a matter of fact people should behaving a hard time breathing in this condition, yet that is NOT the case. So this whole carbon/greenhouse gas theory is falling apart. If there is a change in the atmosphere it is NOT due to Carbon, but some other gas or particulate floating in the atmosphere.

[Kazan]

Why would China or India agree to this bullshit. Their economies are growing steadily, and they are not going to do anything to disrupt that. Only in the west where people have had so good for so long, do we look for some crisis's to create to fuck ourselves up. It would seem to me that solar activity dictates how hot or cold the earth gets, but I guess that doesn't create a man made crisis.

Why do we have have to do this every 20 to 30 years? We have a good long run of prosperity, then the politicians get greedy and start pulling shit that leads to an economic crisis. Then on top of that some ass clown comes along, ie Carter or Obama and promises change. Then for 4 years we have to sit and suck on it while they weaken America and fuck up the economy worse than if they hadn't done anything at all.

My only hope is a real leader emerges, that can lead us back to the road of prosperity.

[Kazan]

WRONG THERE 3 ...China is now the largest CO2 producer becasue they are a manufacturing powerhouse...america is still the largest POLLUTER IN THE WORLD. The difference is america is polluting the atmosphere with all manner of pollutants, Sulphur, Carbon, various petrochemical derivative gases, etc etc. America is still WAAAAAAAAY out in front in regard to OVERALL pollution.

Now here is something to think about. You know that Carbon Dioxide is much heavier than air, yet the masses are constantly being told that Carbon Dioxide is in the upper atmosphere blocking the sunlight and holding in heat. This is IMPOSSIBLE being that carbon dioxide being heavier than air would sink to the ground and the only thing that would happen is the carbon level at ground level would be increasing tremendously. As a matter of fact people should behaving a hard time breathing in this condition, yet that is NOT the case. So this whole carbon/greenhouse gas theory is falling apart. If there is a change in the atmosphere it is NOT due to Carbon, but some other gas or particulate floating in the atmosphere.

So let me see if I am understanding this, China which is the worlds manufacturing power house, who has no real EPA to speak of, is producing less polution that the US? Have you actually seen what is going on in China? Their lakes are so fucked up the algie is growing out of control. Birth defects are through the roof. Why do you think you see all those chines wearing medical masks, the air is think with that shit.

[SAMSON123]

So let me see if I am understanding this, China which is the worlds manufacturing power house, who has no real EPA to speak of, is producing less polution that the US? Have you actually seen what is going on in China? Their lakes are so fucked up the algie is growing out of control. Birth defects are through the roof. Why do you think you see all those chines wearing medical masks, the air is think with that shit.

Kazan have you actually ever seen Los Angeles??? The pollution there is so thick people there wear masks and are told NOT to spend much if any time out doors. A lot of California is in this predicament. Now this is not only a California thing the refinery industry which is spread in many cities and areas in america belches pollution 24/7 without regard to health. America is the ASTHMA capital of the world thanks to the pollution add in the land fills with its myrid chemicals which makes america the CANCER capital of the world as well and you begin to understand the effects and the amount of pollution in america. The US government does not give a damn about the citizens, because lobbyist (BRIBES) are handed out to congressional figures to look the other way. So while america complains about pollution in India, China, Russia, Japan etc I find it nothing but HYPOCRITICAL and absurd when america is producing more pollution than anyone else and seeing the effects in the form of diseases, deaths, birth defects, miscarriages, pulmonary disease etc. America has a population almost 1/5 the size of China....Imagine americas pollution if it had 1.5 BILLION people!!!!....FUGHETTABOUTIT!!!!

[Soul Crusher]

Kazan have you actually ever seen Los Angeles??? The pollution there is so thick people there wear masks and are told NOT to spend much if any time out doors. A lot of California is in this predicament. Now this is not only a California thing the refinery industry which is spread in many cities and areas in america belches pollution 24/7 without regard to health. America is the ASTHMA capital of the world thanks to the pollution add in the land fills with its myrid chemicals which makes america the CANCER capital of the world as well and you begin to understand the effects and the amount of pollution in america. The US government does not give a damn about the citizens, because lobbyist (BRIBES) are handed out to congressional figures to look the other way. So while america complains about pollution in India, China, Russia, Japan etc I find it nothing but HYPOCRITICAL and absurd when america is producing more pollution than anyone else and seeing the effects in the form of diseases, deaths, birth defects, miscarriages, pulmonary disease etc. America has a population almost 1/5 the size of China....Imagine americas pollution if it had 1.5 BILLION people!!!!....FUGHETTABOUTIT!!!!

FOR SAMSON 

[Bindare_Dundat]

Acid rain acid rain!

Killer bees, killer bees!

Asteroid will hit earth!

Sun is getting closer to Earth!

Sun is shrinking!

 Swine flu pandemic!

Global warming!

No Global cooling!

Climate change!

 

[GigantorX]

Kazan have you actually ever seen Los Angeles??? The pollution there is so thick people there wear masks and are told NOT to spend much if any time out doors. A lot of California is in this predicament. Now this is not only a California thing the refinery industry which is spread in many cities and areas in america belches pollution 24/7 without regard to health. America is the ASTHMA capital of the world thanks to the pollution add in the land fills with its myrid chemicals which makes america the CANCER capital of the world as well and you begin to understand the effects and the amount of pollution in america. The US government does not give a damn about the citizens, because lobbyist (BRIBES) are handed out to congressional figures to look the other way. So while america complains about pollution in India, China, Russia, Japan etc I find it nothing but HYPOCRITICAL and absurd when america is producing more pollution than anyone else and seeing the effects in the form of diseases, deaths, birth defects, miscarriages, pulmonary disease etc. America has a population almost 1/5 the size of China....Imagine americas pollution if it had 1.5 BILLION people!!!!....FUGHETTABOUTIT!!!!

Los Angeles is overly polluted because it sits in a valley thus shielding it from any wind currents that could move the smog off the top. Same thing in Mexico city and same thing in Denver.

[GigantorX]

WRONG THERE 3 ...China is now the largest CO2 producer becasue they are a manufacturing powerhouse...america is still the largest POLLUTER IN THE WORLD. The difference is america is polluting the atmosphere with all manner of pollutants, Sulphur, Carbon, various petrochemical derivative gases, etc etc. America is still WAAAAAAAAY out in front in regard to OVERALL pollution.

Now here is something to think about. You know that Carbon Dioxide is much heavier than air, yet the masses are constantly being told that Carbon Dioxide is in the upper atmosphere blocking the sunlight and holding in heat. This is IMPOSSIBLE being that carbon dioxide being heavier than air would sink to the ground and the only thing that would happen is the carbon level at ground level would be increasing tremendously. As a matter of fact people should behaving a hard time breathing in this condition, yet that is NOT the case. So this whole carbon/greenhouse gas theory is falling apart. If there is a change in the atmosphere it is NOT due to Carbon, but some other gas or particulate floating in the atmosphere.

Prove it. Not saying it might not be true, but provide some links, facts, articles etc that could back up what you are saying. You're to much of a gimmick for anyone on here to take you at your word.

We are waiting.

[Kazan]

Kazan have you actually ever seen Los Angeles??? The pollution there is so thick people there wear masks and are told NOT to spend much if any time out doors. A lot of California is in this predicament. Now this is not only a California thing the refinery industry which is spread in many cities and areas in america belches pollution 24/7 without regard to health. America is the ASTHMA capital of the world thanks to the pollution add in the land fills with its myrid chemicals which makes america the CANCER capital of the world as well and you begin to understand the effects and the amount of pollution in america. The US government does not give a damn about the citizens, because lobbyist (BRIBES) are handed out to congressional figures to look the other way. So while america complains about pollution in India, China, Russia, Japan etc I find it nothing but HYPOCRITICAL and absurd when america is producing more pollution than anyone else and seeing the effects in the form of diseases, deaths, birth defects, miscarriages, pulmonary disease etc. America has a population almost 1/5 the size of China....Imagine americas pollution if it had 1.5 BILLION people!!!!....FUGHETTABOUTIT!!!!

Ah yes I have been to LA, I've been to China, I work for a company that has offices all over the world (4 in China), if you think you are going to tell me that the US is more polluted than China you can take a long walk off a short pier