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Author Topic: Do Atheists Proselytize?  (Read 5706 times)
OzmO
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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2009, 12:19:39 PM »

Wow.   Shocked  The parents must be having a hard time with that one.  Did you talk to the her about why she became an atheist? 

There likely isn't a measurable number of adults who believe in Santa Claus.  There really isn't a good parallel IMO.  For example, I don't believe in Pele or any of the other Hawaiian gods, and I have no trouble not talking about Pele, criticizing her, forming anti-Pele groups, etc.   

I'm not sure what most atheists think, but the trends I see are anger, sarcasm, ridicule, etc.  I started thumbing through a book that's on my reading list about an atheist who became a Christian and it does have some insight on this.  I'll post some excerpts when I get around to reading the book. 

I haven't talked to her about it yet, because i just met her.  My son told me about her beliefs.  I can only imagine what the parents must feel like. 

But, check this out.  My son's best "girl" friend got in an car accident last week.  She was backing out of her drive way and was hit by a car going 65 mph in a residential neighborhood.  I guess her face/head hit the window and she has a scar from her forehead down to her cheek.  The parents have seen this as a sign from God that she needs to change her life.  (She'll be 18 in 30 days) So they comprised a list of people she's no longer allowed to be friends with and they read her diary.  Now, just so you know, these are a pretty good group of kids.  They are not pots heads, they don't get in trouble with the law, etc. 

This is how sometimes, people can be somewhat ignorant and do the wrong thing with good intentions because of religion. 

Anti Pele' Groups?  HAHAHA  Yeah that would cause some serious eruptions! However it's not whether there is a measurable number of people who believe in Santa Claus, it's the that issue is similar in terms of how an atheist perceives others when it comes to beliefs.  I think if you met someone who believed in Santa claus and center their life around Saint Nick and his teachings and activities each year you may feel quite compelled to say something when they started witnessing to you or talked about Rudy and the path of light.
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« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2009, 12:30:21 PM »

I haven't talked to her about it yet, because i just met her.  My son told me about her beliefs.  I can only imagine what the parents must feel like. 

But, check this out.  My son's best "girl" friend got in an car accident last week.  She was backing out of her drive way and was hit by a car going 65 mph in a residential neighborhood.  I guess her face/head hit the window and she has a scar from her forehead down to her cheek.  The parents have seen this as a sign from God that she needs to change her life.  (She'll be 18 in 30 days) So they comprised a list of people she's no longer allowed to be friends with and they read her diary.  Now, just so you know, these are a pretty good group of kids.  They are not pots heads, they don't get in trouble with the law, etc. 

This is how sometimes, people can be somewhat ignorant and do the wrong thing with good intentions because of religion. 

Anti Pele' Groups?  HAHAHA  Yeah that would cause some serious eruptions! However it's not whether there is a measurable number of people who believe in Santa Claus, it's the that issue is similar in terms of how an atheist perceives others when it comes to beliefs.  I think if you met someone who believed in Santa claus and center their life around Saint Nick and his teachings and activities each year you may feel quite compelled to say something when they started witnessing to you or talked about Rudy and the path of light.

that's just fucked up.  their kid is going to be dealing with huge emotional issues from being injured/scarred and they are probably going to make her even more miserable with their bizarre reaction.   I truly feel sorry for that kid.    I would call the parents reaction crazy (again - my opinion only).   Maybe they were crazy already or maybe their religious beliefs have made them crazy but either way .....same conclusion
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« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2009, 01:24:42 PM »

that's just fucked up.  their kid is going to be dealing with huge emotional issues from being injured/scarred and they are probably going to make her even more miserable with their bizarre reaction.   I truly feel sorry for that kid.    I would call the parents reaction crazy (again - my opinion only).   Maybe they were crazy already or maybe their religious beliefs have made them crazy but either way .....same conclusion

IMO, anyone who doesn't see how damaging reading a 17-year girl's diary is are certified idiots.  Religion was only the trigger for this.
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« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2009, 01:44:25 PM »

I've never had an atheist come to my door to proselytize?

They often prefer you come to them in universities.


I've never seen the 24/7 atheist channel on TV begging for donations so their leaders can live in mansion and fly around in private jets.

Of course not! The ratings are terrible. Some of these pastors run schools (a few are chancellors of colleges), small TV networks, various humanitarian missions, etc. How do you expect them to travel, by rickshaw?



I've never seen an atheist meeting place on every other corner in ever town in America

Simple lack of popularity, although California has a handful of "humanist centers", as was mentioned sometime ago. It's where some atheists go to assemble as a counter to their neighbors going to church on Sunday.


I've never received letters and cards in the mail urging me to join an atheist group or send a donation

etc...


Not yet!! But have you seen some of these atheist sites? Some of them have asked for a little coin from time to time.

 Grin
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« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2009, 01:53:10 PM »

They often prefer you come to them in universities.

Of course not! The ratings are terrible. Some of these pastors run schools (a few are chancellors of colleges), small TV networks, various humanitarian missions, etc. How do you expect them to travel, by rickshaw?

Simple lack of popularity, although California has a handful of "humanist centers", as was mentioned sometime ago. It's where some atheists go to assemble as a counter to their neighbors going to church on Sunday.

Not yet!! But have you seen some of these atheist sites? Some of them have asked for a little coin from time to time.

 Grin

you seem paranoid
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« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2009, 01:57:14 PM »

you seem paranoid

Hardly!!

The point, which you seem to have missed, is that all those things that you claim to have "never seen" are indeed there, with regards to atheists. The scale is simply much smaller than that of their Christian counterparts.
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« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2009, 02:58:44 PM »

Hardly!!

The point, which you seem to have missed, is that all those things that you claim to have "never seen" are indeed there, with regards to atheists. The scale is simply much smaller than that of their Christian counterparts.
got a few minutes so let's just take one thing at a time.

I don't understand what you mean by this statement.  Can you explain it further:


maybe so much smaller that no one can see them except you?

I've only got a few minutes so let's just take one thing at a time.

I don't know what you mean by this statement. 

Can you expand on it a bit?

Thanks

 
They often prefer you come to them in universities.



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« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2009, 03:01:24 PM »

They often prefer you come to them in universities.


Not exactly going door to door handing out pamphlets.

They are being very non-solicitous in this case.
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« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2009, 03:02:56 PM »

I've never had an atheist come to my door to proselytize?

I've never seen the 24/7 atheist channel on TV begging for donations so their leaders can live in mansion and fly around in private jets.

I've never seen an atheist meeting place on every other corner in ever town in America

I've never received letters and cards in the mail urging me to join an atheist group or send a donation

etc...


good post
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« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2009, 03:17:14 PM »

maybe so much smaller that no one can see them except you?

I've only got a few minutes so let's just take one thing at a time.

I don't know what you mean by this statement. 

Can you expand on it a bit?

Thanks


I already did. For instance, you claimed that you don't see an atheist meeting place on every corner. Indeed there are not. However, as mentioned earlier, places like California have "humanist centers" where atheists go to take their kids and to meet with other atheists to discuss their "beliefs" (or whatever), to counter their Christian neighbors who go to church every Sunday.

In fact, I've mentioned several times, as there was a Time magazine article done on it (I called them the "un-churches). It's been discussed here before; Deicide thinks such places are stupid.

Recap:

On Sunday mornings, most parents who don't believe in the Christian God, or any god at all, are probably making brunch or cheering at their kids' soccer game, or running errands or, with luck, sleeping in. Without religion, there's no need for church, right?


Maybe. But some nonbelievers are beginning to think they might need something for their children. "When you have kids," says Julie Willey, a design engineer, "you start to notice that your co-workers or friends have church groups to help teach their kids values and to be able to lean on." So every week, Willey, who was raised Buddhist and says she has never believed in God, and her husband pack their four kids into their blue minivan and head to the Humanist Community Center in Palo Alto, Calif., for atheist Sunday school.



http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686828,00.html

A more recent article on this same place:

'We Make Our Own Heaven'
Atheist Minority Finds Spiritual Home in Palo Alto



It is hard not to notice the bells that ring on Sunday morning. But at churches, synagogues and mosques around the globe there are some for whom that religion is lost. This group is part of America's atheist minority.

Non-believers find humanist community in Palo Alto.While Christians, Muslims and Jews can celebrate their beliefs, and fellowship in the company of others in churches, mosques and synagogues, where can non-believers find a spiritual home?

One answer lies in Palo Alto, Calif., if you spot the sign by the roadside. It's at the Humanist Community, where for a few hours every Sunday the humanists, as they call themselves, come together in what one might call a congregation. It even has its own Sunday school.

Without church bells, but with music, this group of humanists believe in a lot of things – but God isn't one of them.....


http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaithMatters/story?id=4539323&page=1


I didn't make up this place, Straw, and obviously I'm not the only one who can see it. Now, if you're done with your denials, perhaps the discussion can pick up.
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« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2009, 03:24:17 PM »

I already did. For instance, you claimed that you don't see an atheist meeting place on every corner. Indeed there are not. However, as mentioned earlier, places like California have "humanist centers" where atheists go to take their kids and to meet with other atheists to discuss their "beliefs" (or whatever), to counter their Christian neighbors who go to church every Sunday.

In fact, I've mentioned several times, as there was a Time magazine article done on it (I called them the "un-churches). It's been discussed here before; Deicide thinks such places are stupid.

Recap:

On Sunday mornings, most parents who don't believe in the Christian God, or any god at all, are probably making brunch or cheering at their kids' soccer game, or running errands or, with luck, sleeping in. Without religion, there's no need for church, right?


Maybe. But some nonbelievers are beginning to think they might need something for their children. "When you have kids," says Julie Willey, a design engineer, "you start to notice that your co-workers or friends have church groups to help teach their kids values and to be able to lean on." So every week, Willey, who was raised Buddhist and says she has never believed in God, and her husband pack their four kids into their blue minivan and head to the Humanist Community Center in Palo Alto, Calif., for atheist Sunday school.



http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686828,00.html

I didn't make up this place, Straw, and obviously I'm not the only one who can see it. Now, if you're done with your denials, perhaps the discussion can pick up.

I'm not aware of any of this stuff but more importantly, if it exists, why do you have a problem with people discussing their beliefs?

Islam doesn't agree with your beliefs, nor do Hindu's, Buddhist, etc..
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« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2009, 03:24:36 PM »

Not exactly going door to door handing out pamphlets.

They are being very non-solicitous in this case.

Didn't Beach Bum (or somebody) put up a thread about atheist groups, putting ads on the sides of buses (with their websites being displayed)?

Then, there's the recent display from last Christmas, particularly in Washington state and those ads being shown (with a girl in a Santa suit), to the tune "There is no God. So be good for goodness sake!", or something along those lines.

Non-soliticious? I beg to differ.
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« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2009, 03:26:24 PM »

I'm not aware of any of this stuff but more importantly, if it exists, why do you have a problem with people discussing their beliefs?

You are aware of it now....AND you were aware of it, when it was discussed last time (as you were posting comments about the situation).


It appears you simply have acute memory loss.  Grin

Plus, I never said I necessarily had a problem with people discussing their beliefs. The point, which you missed once again, is that your claim about not seeing atheists do thus-and-so, as opposed to their Christian counterparts, is categorically false.

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« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2009, 03:30:09 PM »

You are aware of it now....AND you were aware of it, when it was discussed last time (as you were posting comments about the situation).


It appears you simply have acute memory loss.  Grin

Plus, I never said I necessarily had a problem with people discussing their beliefs. The point, which you missed once again, is that your claim about not seeing atheists do thus-and-so, as opposed to their Christian counterparts, is categorically false.

I'm aware of your beliefs too and I don't give a shit

IMO  -  anyone can believe whatever they want as long as they drive carefully and put their weights away

why are you so worked up about one specific group (so small that only you can see it) and what you think they "believe"
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« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2009, 04:01:49 PM »

Didn't Beach Bum (or somebody) put up a thread about atheist groups, putting ads on the sides of buses (with their websites being displayed)?

Then, there's the recent display from last Christmas, particularly in Washington state and those ads being shown (with a girl in a Santa suit), to the tune "There is no God. So be good for goodness sake!", or something along those lines.

Non-soliticious? I beg to differ.

Based on your comment about universities, it is in fact non-solicitous.  Further more, the shear scale of religious solicitation dwarfs anything Atheism has done to "in their mind derail lunacy".  There is no comparison.

These isolated incidences you mention aside, I do live in california and have never seen or been solicited by anything promoting atheism.  Ever.
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« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2009, 04:28:54 PM »

Based on your comment about universities, it is in fact non-solicitous.  Further more, the shear scale of religious solicitation dwarfs anything Atheism has done to "in their mind derail lunacy".  There is no comparison.

Did you not just read what I said earlier, "The scale is simply much smaller than that of their Christian counterparts."

These isolated incidences you mention aside, I do live in california and have never seen or been solicited by anything promoting atheism.  Ever.

California is a rather large state, last time I checked. Of course, your having not seen doesn't equate to such not happening, albeit (as mentioned earlier) on a much smaller scale.
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« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2009, 05:09:57 PM »

Did you not just read what I said earlier, "The scale is simply much smaller than that of their Christian counterparts."



I read that.  But, still, no comparison.

Quote
California is a rather large state, last time I checked. Of course, your having not seen doesn't equate to such not happening, albeit (as mentioned earlier) on a much smaller scale.

In 30+ years?

Anyone that does are probably converts who used to do it with religion  Cheesy
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« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2009, 05:14:11 PM »

I read that.  But, still, no comparison.

In 30+ years?

Anyone that does are probably converts who used to do it with religion  Cheesy


The question of this thread was, "Do Atheists Proselytize?". The answer appears to be "Yes, they do."

Whether that is done to the same scale and degree as Christian proselytizing or not makes no difference.
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« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2009, 06:58:58 PM »

The question of this thread was, "Do Atheists Proselytize?". The answer appears to be "Yes, they do."

Whether that is done to the same scale and degree as Christian proselytizing or not makes no difference.

Sure it does because the degree defines answer.  There are very few atheists that actively solicit there beliefs.  To say Atheists proselytize is like asking are Christians thieves.  Which by saying yes is the same thing as saying yes to atheists proselytizing.   

To classify atheists as active proselytizers is inaccurate.  "Are there atheists that proselytize?" yes.   To say christians proselytize is far more accurate then saying Atheist do.
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« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2009, 08:51:35 AM »

Only as much as a-fairyists, a-leprechaunists, a-ghostists, and a-unicornists proselytize.

Imagine living among millions of morons who believe that an invisible sky fairy knocked up some woman who then gave birth to him (i.e. he is his own father), he died and came back to life and now he is a cosmic zombie. They believe they can talk to him, and what's worse, he talks back to them. They have conversations with him in their heads and then want to dictate to the rest of us how our morality should be, and want to turn their views into our laws. One such moron even believed the sky fairy told him to invade a large Middle-eastern country!

It's like living among among morons who believe in ghosts, and believe they are talking to distant ancestors and getting advice from them, and then wanting to dictate that advice as mandatory rules for the rest of us.

Or like living among morons who believe in astrology and want their moronic ideas taught as an alternative to astronomy in schools.

Or like living among morons who believe creationism and want their moronic fairy tale taught as an alternative to astronomy, geology, and biology in schools.

Hope this helps.  Tongue


 Grin
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« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2009, 08:59:36 AM »

Sure it does because the degree defines answer.  There are very few atheists that actively solicit there beliefs.  To say Atheists proselytize is like asking are Christians thieves.  Which by saying yes is the same thing as saying yes to atheists proselytizing.   

To classify atheists as active proselytizers is inaccurate.  "Are there atheists that proselytize?" yes.   To say christians proselytize is far more accurate then saying Atheist do.

spot on.
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« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2009, 10:42:57 AM »

I already did. For instance, you claimed that you don't see an atheist meeting place on every corner. Indeed there are not. However, as mentioned earlier, places like California have "humanist centers" where atheists go to take their kids and to meet with other atheists to discuss their "beliefs" (or whatever), to counter their Christian neighbors who go to church every Sunday.

In fact, I've mentioned several times, as there was a Time magazine article done on it (I called them the "un-churches). It's been discussed here before; Deicide thinks such places are stupid.

Recap:

On Sunday mornings, most parents who don't believe in the Christian God, or any god at all, are probably making brunch or cheering at their kids' soccer game, or running errands or, with luck, sleeping in. Without religion, there's no need for church, right?


Maybe. But some nonbelievers are beginning to think they might need something for their children. "When you have kids," says Julie Willey, a design engineer, "you start to notice that your co-workers or friends have church groups to help teach their kids values and to be able to lean on." So every week, Willey, who was raised Buddhist and says she has never believed in God, and her husband pack their four kids into their blue minivan and head to the Humanist Community Center in Palo Alto, Calif., for atheist Sunday school.



http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686828,00.html

A more recent article on this same place:

'We Make Our Own Heaven'
Atheist Minority Finds Spiritual Home in Palo Alto



It is hard not to notice the bells that ring on Sunday morning. But at churches, synagogues and mosques around the globe there are some for whom that religion is lost. This group is part of America's atheist minority.

Non-believers find humanist community in Palo Alto.While Christians, Muslims and Jews can celebrate their beliefs, and fellowship in the company of others in churches, mosques and synagogues, where can non-believers find a spiritual home?

One answer lies in Palo Alto, Calif., if you spot the sign by the roadside. It's at the Humanist Community, where for a few hours every Sunday the humanists, as they call themselves, come together in what one might call a congregation. It even has its own Sunday school.

Without church bells, but with music, this group of humanists believe in a lot of things – but God isn't one of them.....


http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaithMatters/story?id=4539323&page=1


I didn't make up this place, Straw, and obviously I'm not the only one who can see it. Now, if you're done with your denials, perhaps the discussion can pick up.

McWay - you've listed one example of one group in a very progressive city and jut the fact that they get together is NOT Proselytizing. 
-----------------------------
Main Entry: pros·e·ly·tize 
Pronunciation: \ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtīz\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): pros·e·ly·tized; pros·e·ly·tiz·ing
Date: 1679
intransitive verb
1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
transitive verb
: to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause
----------------------------

I've lived in the bay area ~ 25 years and I go to Palo Alto all the time and I've never heard or seen this group so they're not doing a very good job recruiting people to their belief system.

News Flash - atheist/agnostics/non-christians do exist but they don't appear to do much if any "proselytizing.   Christians on the other hand go all over the planet trying to spread the "good news" that from the moment you're born you're condemned to an eternity of suffering unless you accept JC as your personal saviour.   

Frankly, I wish atheist would actually proselytize.   The human race needs something to  counter-balance to the "mind virus" of christianity that is swarming the planet
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« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2009, 11:46:32 AM »

McWay - you've listed one example of one group in a very progressive city and jut the fact that they get together is NOT Proselytizing. 
-----------------------------
Main Entry: pros·e·ly·tize 
Pronunciation: \ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtīz\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): pros·e·ly·tized; pros·e·ly·tiz·ing
Date: 1679
intransitive verb
1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
transitive verb
: to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause
----------------------------

I've lived in the bay area ~ 25 years and I go to Palo Alto all the time and I've never heard or seen this group so they're not doing a very good job recruiting people to their belief system.

News Flash - atheist/agnostics/non-christians do exist but they don't appear to do much if any "proselytizing.   Christians on the other hand go all over the planet trying to spread the "good news" that from the moment you're born you're condemned to an eternity of suffering unless you accept JC as your personal saviour.   

News Flash!!! The Palo Alto humanist center was used to counter your claim that supposedly you'd never heard of atheists getting together (no they're not on every other corner; their numbers aren't big enough).

As for the proselytizing, you conveniently forget the other examples I mentioned sometime ago, namely the advertisements on buses, and the ads done at Christmas time (most recently, last year), as well as the incident in Washington state.

Why are atheist groups running these ads, along with their websites, if they are not looking to INCREASE their numbers?




Frankly, I wish atheist would actually proselytize.   The human race needs something to  counter-balance to the "mind virus" of christianity that is swarming the planet


For what purpose (notwithstanding the rather ridiculous assertion of Christianity being a "mind virus)?

I asked Deicide that on one of his threads. What is the end-goal for atheists? What is this grandiose vision they have for a country or a planet that they so passionately feel CANNOT be accomplished, as long as the majority of people on Earth believe that there's a God?



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« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2009, 11:53:09 AM »

News Flash!!! The Palo Alto humanist center was used to counter your claim that supposedly you'd never heard of atheists getting together (no they're not on every other corner; their numbers aren't big enough).

As for the proselytizing, you conveniently forget the other examples I mentioned sometime ago, namely the advertisements on buses, and the ads done at Christmas time (most recently, last year), as well as the incident in Washington state.

Why are atheist groups running these ads, along with their websites, if they are not looking to INCREASE their numbers?

paranoid much?

who cares if there numbers are increasing.....what's it to you?

Here's a list of the "places of worship in Palo Alto" :  http://www.paloaltoonline.com/cgi/pao_search_fab.cgi?Section=resources&Category=places%20to%20worship

You'll not doubt find comfort (unless you're paranoid) in the fact the vast majority are selling the Jesus Story
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« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2009, 12:38:25 PM »

paranoid much?

who cares if there numbers are increasing.....what's it to you?

Smoke crack much?? The question at hand was whether or not atheists proselytize.

If your attitude is "who cares", why do you keep flapping your lips, claiming that atheists DO NOT do such?

Someone with a "who cares" attitude wouldn't be chirping about how they wish atheists would proselytize to counter the so-called "mind virus" of Christianity.

Make up your mind here.
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