Poll

Would you consider getting "De-Baptized?"  (If you've never been baptized, assume you had)  Please vote once from the top 2 options and once from the bottom 2.

It's a good idea
0 (0%)
It's a waste of time
9 (64.3%)
.
0 (0%)
.
0 (0%)
I would do it
0 (0%)
I wouldn't do it
5 (35.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Author Topic: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?  (Read 6244 times)

Butterbean

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...Man de-baptises himself

A man has asked to be 'de-baptised', saying that he was too young to decide his religion at the age of five months.

John Hunt, 56, says that he wants his 1953 baptism at the St Jude and St Aidan parish church in the Southwark diocese, south London, cancelled because he was not consulted and does not believe in God.

He decided to have his baptism revoked after reading about a gay man in Spain, Mañuel Blat, who won a court ruling under Spanish data protection legislation that he could have the record of his baptism stricken from the baptismal register.

Mr Hunt, a member of OutRage!, has obtained a de-baptism certificate from the National Secular Society, which reads: “I, John Geoffrey Hunt, having been subjected to the rite of Christian baptism in infancy hereby publicly revoke any implications of that rite.

“I reject all its creeds and other such superstitions in particular the perfidious belief that any baby needs to be cleansed of original sin.”

He paid £60 to post it in the London Gazette and the London diocese has agreed to amend his baptism notes with the notice.

However, he has been told that he cannot have his baptism revoked as it is a "historical record".

The Bishop of Croydon, the Rt Rev Nick Baines, told the Daily Telegraph: "Whether we agree whether it should have happened or not is a different matter.

"But it's a bit like trying to expunge Trotsky from the photos. You can't remove from the record something that actually happened."


http://www.pinknews.uk.co/news/articles/2005-11673.html






Others are being "de-baptized" as well:

Following atheist trend, Britons seek 'de-baptism'

Do you disagree with your parents over religion?

In Britain, some people clearly do: more than 100,000 Britons have recently downloaded "certificates of de-baptism" from the Internet to renounce their Christian faith.

The initiative launched by a group called the National Secular Society (NSS) follows atheist campaigns here and elsewhere, including a London bus poster which triggered protests by proclaiming, "There's probably no God."

"We now produce a certificate on parchment and we have sold 1,500 units at three pounds (4.35 dollars, 3.20 euros) a pop," said NSS president Terry Sanderson, 58.
John Hunt, a 58-year-old from London and one of the first to try to be "de-baptised," held that he was too young to make any decision when he was christened at five months old.

The male nurse said he approached the Church of England to ask it to remove his name.

"They said they had sought legal advice and that I should place an announcement in the London Gazette," said Hunt, referring to one of the official journals of record of the British government.

So that's what he did -- his notice of renouncement was published in the Gazette in May 2008 and other Britons have followed suit.

Michael Evans, 66, branded baptising children as "a form of child abuse" -- and said that when he complained to the church where he was christened he was told to contact the European Court of Human Rights.
more
http://www.expatica.com/fr/life-in-france/lifestyle/Following-atheist-trend_-Britons-seek_de_baptism_-_14067.html?ppager=0
R

Dos Equis

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Re: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2009, 01:39:16 PM »
Complete waste of time.

Straw Man

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Re: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2009, 02:00:47 PM »
Complete waste of time.

I agree

I'm wondering if we think so for the same reason

MCWAY

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Re: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2009, 03:27:22 PM »
...Man de-baptises himself

A man has asked to be 'de-baptised', saying that he was too young to decide his religion at the age of five months.

John Hunt, 56, says that he wants his 1953 baptism at the St Jude and St Aidan parish church in the Southwark diocese, south London, cancelled because he was not consulted and does not believe in God.

He decided to have his baptism revoked after reading about a gay man in Spain, Mañuel Blat, who won a court ruling under Spanish data protection legislation that he could have the record of his baptism stricken from the baptismal register.

Mr Hunt, a member of OutRage!, has obtained a de-baptism certificate from the National Secular Society, which reads: “I, John Geoffrey Hunt, having been subjected to the rite of Christian baptism in infancy hereby publicly revoke any implications of that rite.

“I reject all its creeds and other such superstitions in particular the perfidious belief that any baby needs to be cleansed of original sin.”

He paid £60 to post it in the London Gazette and the London diocese has agreed to amend his baptism notes with the notice.

However, he has been told that he cannot have his baptism revoked as it is a "historical record".

The Bishop of Croydon, the Rt Rev Nick Baines, told the Daily Telegraph: "Whether we agree whether it should have happened or not is a different matter.

"But it's a bit like trying to expunge Trotsky from the photos. You can't remove from the record something that actually happened."


http://www.pinknews.uk.co/news/articles/2005-11673.html






Others are being "de-baptized" as well:

Following atheist trend, Britons seek 'de-baptism'

Do you disagree with your parents over religion?

In Britain, some people clearly do: more than 100,000 Britons have recently downloaded "certificates of de-baptism" from the Internet to renounce their Christian faith.

The initiative launched by a group called the National Secular Society (NSS) follows atheist campaigns here and elsewhere, including a London bus poster which triggered protests by proclaiming, "There's probably no God."

"We now produce a certificate on parchment and we have sold 1,500 units at three pounds (4.35 dollars, 3.20 euros) a pop," said NSS president Terry Sanderson, 58.
John Hunt, a 58-year-old from London and one of the first to try to be "de-baptised," held that he was too young to make any decision when he was christened at five months old.

The male nurse said he approached the Church of England to ask it to remove his name.

"They said they had sought legal advice and that I should place an announcement in the London Gazette," said Hunt, referring to one of the official journals of record of the British government.

So that's what he did -- his notice of renouncement was published in the Gazette in May 2008 and other Britons have followed suit.

Michael Evans, 66, branded baptising children as "a form of child abuse" -- and said that when he complained to the church where he was christened he was told to contact the European Court of Human Rights.
more
http://www.expatica.com/fr/life-in-france/lifestyle/Following-atheist-trend_-Britons-seek_de_baptism_-_14067.html?ppager=0

How do you get "de-baptized", have someone dunk you in a tank of sand?

Besides, as far as the baptismal process goes (at least in our church), the whole thing is voluntary. That is, someone has to decide that he/she wants to be baptized. From there, they go through Bible study with the elders of the church and focus on the basics of the faith. This usually takes several weeks. It is from there that they go through and officially get dunked in the "watery grave".

More often than not, new baptismal candidates invite their friends and family to witness the ceremony, as it is a big step for them to accept the Lord as their Savior. Heck, we usually have lunch or some sort of banquet for the newly-baptized members.

The point, of course, is that this a process, a gesture done only after great consideration and Bible study. It isn't something done to a kid or a baby, who has no idea what's happening (at least, that's not the way it's supposed to be done).

As the saying goes, "God has no grandchildren". Your parents can't decide to accept Christ on your behalf; and you can't do so on behalf of your children.


Butterbean

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Re: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2009, 06:49:57 AM »
How do you get "de-baptized", have someone dunk you in a tank of sank?

Besides, as far as the baptismal process goes (at least in our church), the whole thing is voluntary. That is, someone has to decide that he/she wants to be baptized. From there, they go through Bible study with the elders of the church and focus on the basics of the faith. This usually takes several weeks. It is from there that they go through and officially get dunked in the "watery grave".

More often than not, new baptismal candidates invite their friends and family to witness the ceremony, as it is a big step for them to accept the Lord as their Savior. Heck, we usually have lunch or some sort of banquet for the newly-baptized members.

The point, of course, is that this a process, a gesture done only after great consideration and Bible study. It isn't something done to a kid or a baby, who has no idea what's happening (at least, that's not the way it's supposed to be done).

As the saying goes, "God has no grandchildren". Your parents can't decide to accept Christ on your behalf; and you can't do so on behalf of your children.



Yeah as far as I know, the bible doesn't support any infant baptism...... and water baptism does not save.  Only "faith through grace and not of works so that no one can boast" Eph 2:8,9.

I see baptism as an outright sign of someone who is already a believer who desires to follow Christ/to live in a way pleasing to Him.

So these people are spending time and money to "reverse" something that didn't do anything in the first place. ....even if they did believe it did something.....but they don't right ??? in the first place  :-\
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MCWAY

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2009, 11:49:39 AM »
Let me get this straight: These logical and rational atheists are SOOOOOOOOOOO intellectually sound and “enlightened”, that their psyche gets bruised by having water sprinkled on them, mere months removed from the womb (an event they DON’T EVEN REMEMBER).

“Three drops of water hit my head, and someone mentioned the name of Jesus Christ, when I was in diapers. OOOOOOHHHH, THE HUMANITY!!!!”

And they call us nuts!!

ToxicAvenger

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2009, 09:19:38 AM »
De baptize...good lord...thats going a bit overboard with the indignation no  :-\



next on teh ajenda i'm gonna officially demuslamize myself my "re-heading" someone... ;D
k..i think its funny  >:(
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Hustle Man

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Re: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 01:15:03 PM »
...water baptism does not save.  Only "faith through grace and not of works so that no one can boast" Eph 2:8,9.

I see baptism as an outright sign of someone who is already a believer who desires to follow Christ/to live in a way pleasing to Him.

I liken baptism to wearing a wedding ring; You wear it to show the world you are married but if you take it off does't mean you are not married.

HM
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Joel_A

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Re: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2009, 05:13:12 AM »
I liken baptism to wearing a wedding ring; You wear it to show the world you are married but if you take it off does't mean you are not married.

HM

But your hair is about to get dry some day, so who would know you're baptized to begin with? Regardless, it is silly to get "de-baptized."

As a raised Catholic and now atheist, should I also get debaptized, 'unconfirm,' and take back all of the confessions from the priests? No. That's stupid.

Joel_A

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2009, 05:15:33 AM »
I might have to buy some round crackers and donate them to Catholic churches now.

Butterbean

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Re: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2009, 06:17:05 AM »
But your hair is about to get dry some day, so who would know you're baptized to begin with? Regardless, it is silly to get "de-baptized."

As a raised Catholic and now atheist, should I also get debaptized, 'unconfirm,' and take back all of the confessions from the priests? No. That's stupid.

Yeah, because those didn't do anything anyway.

I might have to buy some round crackers and donate them to Catholic churches now.

I took communion in a Catholic church once.  I wasn't supposed to because I'm not Catholic but I was a rebel  ::) ;D    anyway, it tasted like styrofoam  :-X
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Hustle Man

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Re: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2009, 05:15:03 PM »
As a raised Catholic and now atheist, should I also get debaptized, 'unconfirm,' and take back all of the confessions from the priests? No. That's stupid.

That's not what I was talking about but I agree with you!
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Straw Man

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Re: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2009, 09:22:03 AM »
Yeah, because those didn't do anything anyway.

I took communion in a Catholic church once.  I wasn't supposed to because I'm not Catholic but I was a rebel  ::) ;D    anyway, it tasted like styrofoam   :-X

if you were a real Catholic that wafer would have turned into the body of christ

Joel_A

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Re: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2009, 12:36:46 PM »
if you were a real Catholic that wafer would have turned into the body of christ

We were just a bunch of cannibals.

The Catholics have got to be the most ridiculous of all the Christian sects. Kneel, stand, sit, pray, genuflect.... lol, I almost forgot about the genuflecting part.

Dropkick

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2009, 11:29:27 AM »
I was baptised and am an atheist. I wouldn't be de-baptised because I realise how pointless splashing water on my forehead is and how little it obviously achieves.

Dos Equis

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2010, 04:21:40 PM »
 :)

U.S. Atheists Reportedly Using Hair Dryers to 'De-Baptize'
Published July 17, 2010
 
American atheists lined up to be "de-baptized" in a ritual using a hair dryer, according to a report Friday on U.S. late-night news program "Nightline."

Leading atheist Edwin Kagin blasted his fellow non-believers with the hair dryer to symbolically dry up the holy water sprinkled on their heads in days past. The styling tool was emblazoned with a label reading "Reason and Truth."

Kagin believes parents are wrong to baptize their children before they are able to make their own choices, even slamming some religious eduction as "child abuse." He said the blast of hot air was a way for adults to undo what their parents had done.

"I was baptized Catholic. I don't remember any of it at all," said 24-year-old Cambridge Boxterman. "According to my mother, I screamed like a banshee ... so you can see that even as a young child I didn't want to be baptized. It's not fair. I was born atheist, and they were forcing me to become Catholic."

Kagin doned a monk's robe and said a few mock-Latin phrases before inviting those wishing to be de-baptized to "come forward now and receive the spirit of hot air that taketh away the stigma and taketh away the remnants of the stain of baptismal water."

Ironically, Kagin's own son became a fundamentalist Christian minister after having "a personal revelation in Jesus Christ."

"One wonders where they went wrong," he chuckled to the TV show.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/17/atheists-reportedly-using-hair-dryers-baptize/?test=latestnews

MCWAY

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2010, 07:03:26 AM »
:)

U.S. Atheists Reportedly Using Hair Dryers to 'De-Baptize'
Published July 17, 2010
 
American atheists lined up to be "de-baptized" in a ritual using a hair dryer, according to a report Friday on U.S. late-night news program "Nightline."

Leading atheist Edwin Kagin blasted his fellow non-believers with the hair dryer to symbolically dry up the holy water sprinkled on their heads in days past. The styling tool was emblazoned with a label reading "Reason and Truth."

Kagin believes parents are wrong to baptize their children before they are able to make their own choices, even slamming some religious eduction as "child abuse." He said the blast of hot air was a way for adults to undo what their parents had done.

"I was baptized Catholic. I don't remember any of it at all," said 24-year-old Cambridge Boxterman. "According to my mother, I screamed like a banshee ... so you can see that even as a young child I didn't want to be baptized. It's not fair. I was born atheist, and they were forcing me to become Catholic."

Kagin doned a monk's robe and said a few mock-Latin phrases before inviting those wishing to be de-baptized to "come forward now and receive the spirit of hot air that taketh away the stigma and taketh away the remnants of the stain of baptismal water."

Ironically, Kagin's own son became a fundamentalist Christian minister after having "a personal revelation in Jesus Christ."

"One wonders where they went wrong," he chuckled to the TV show.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/17/atheists-reportedly-using-hair-dryers-baptize/?test=latestnews

I just read this stupid mess about an hour ago. Some of these atheists have to be the most cracked-in-the-head folks I've ever seen. All this drama, over someone they claim doesn't even exist.

And they call Christians nuts!???

With that said, the child baptism (or at least, infant baptism thing) is ridiculous. I'll give Kagan that. But, even more ridiculous is his citing as proof that he didn't want to be baptized, his screaming like a banshee.

HEY EINSTEIN!!! You were a BABY!! Babies scream for just about anything. My son screams as I'm changing his diaper. Is that proof that he wants to have a soiled Pamper stuck to his butt, in perpetuity. And, these folks are supposed to be the "smart", "enlightened" folks? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

In case these Rhodes scholars hadn't realized it yet, sprinking water on a baby no more makes him a Christian than dusting protein powder on my head makes me Mr. Olympia. Most people who get baptized HAVE TO REQUEST BAPTISM, from their pastor and deacons. And, that's followed by WEEKS of intense Bible study and preparation.

Now I see why the verse, "thinking themselves wise, they became fools" applies to a number of atheists.


MCWAY

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2010, 07:13:53 AM »
I was baptised and am an atheist. I wouldn't be de-baptised because I realise how pointless splashing water on my forehead is and how little it obviously achieves.

Actually, you weren't baptized. As stated earlier, baptism is a voluntary thing, as clearly stated in Scripture. This article that Beach Bum posted does make one good point. Most ardent atheists are former Catholics. A reason for that, I believe, is the Catholic Church's obsession with holding to a bunch of mess that has NO BASIS in Scripture, whatsoever (infant baptism, being among the least of this).


ToxicAvenger

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2010, 05:54:14 AM »
...Man de-baptises himself

A man has asked to be 'de-baptised', saying that he was too young to decide his religion at the age of five months.


he's an idiot....

IF he doesn't believe in his religion then baptasim or no baptasim...it wouldn't matter AT ALL..since he does not believe in it anyways.

the FACT that he is getting de-pabtised shows to prove that he does believe in it....otherwise..why would he bother?
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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2010, 09:39:15 PM »
this is retarded

Butterbean

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2010, 07:50:22 AM »


 

Specific Biblical References?


But, one might ask, does the Bible ever say that infants or young children can be baptized? The indications are clear. In the New Testament we read that Lydia was converted by Paul’s preaching and that "She was baptized, with her household" (Acts 16:15). The Philippian jailer whom Paul and Silas had converted to the faith was baptized that night along with his household. We are told that "the same hour of the night . . . he was baptized, with all his family" (Acts 16:33). And in his greetings to the Corinthians, Paul recalled that, "I did baptize also the household of Stephanas" (1 Cor. 1:16).

In all these cases, whole households or families were baptized. This means more than just the spouse; the children too were included. If the text of Acts referred simply to the Philippian jailer and his wife, then we would read that "he and his wife were baptized," but we do not. Thus his children must have been baptized as well. The same applies to the other cases of household baptism in Scripture.

Granted, we do not know the exact age of the children; they may have been past the age of reason, rather than infants. Then again, they could have been babes in arms. More probably, there were both younger and older children. Certainly there were children younger than the age of reason in some of the households that were baptized, especially if one considers that society at this time had no reliable form of birth control. Furthermore, given the New Testament pattern of household baptism, if there were to be exceptions to this rule (such as infants), they would be explicit.

 


I still don't see specific scriptural references encouraging infant baptism?

My buddy's household at one point consisted of her, her husband, his father, and 2 adult sons.




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MCWAY

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2010, 11:28:54 AM »

Huh? So um, what if we now go all crazy  for a sec here and assume that other households besides your buddy and yours ofcorse, actualy do have infants?

Please just read it again Stella, this time with your head out of the sand.

Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" (2:39). We also read: "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a
connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."


  the historic Christian Church has always held that Christ’s law applies to infants as well as adults, for Jesus said that no one can enter heaven unless he has been born again of water and the Holy Spirit (John 3:5). His words can be taken to apply to anyone capable of belonging to his kingdom. He asserted such even for children: "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 19:14).

More detail is given in Luke’s account of this event, which reads: "Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God’" (Luke 18:15–16).
Luke 18:15 says, "Now they were bringing even infants to him" (Greek, Prosepheron de auto kai ta brepha). The Greek word brepha means "infants"—children who are quite unable to approach Christ on their own and who could not possibly make a conscious
decision to "accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior." And that is precisely the problem. Fundamentalists refuse to permit the baptism of infants and young children, because they are not yet capable of making such a conscious act. But notice what Jesus said: "to such as these [referring to the infants and children who had been brought to him by their mothers] belongs the kingdom of heaven." The Lord did not require them to make a conscious decision. He says that they are precisely the kind of people who can come to him and receive the kingdom. So on what basis, Fundamentalists should be asked, can infants and young children be excluded from the sacrament of baptism? If Jesus said "let them come unto me," who are we to say "no," and withhold baptism from them?

Were Only Adults Baptized?
Fundamentalists are reluctant to admit that the Bible nowhere says baptism is to be restricted to adults, but when pressed, they will. They just conclude that is what it should be taken as meaning, even if the text does not explicitly support such a view. Naturally enough, the people whose baptisms we read about in Scripture (and few are individually identified) are adults, because they were converted as adults. This makes sense, because Christianity was just beginning—there were no "cradle Christians," people brought up from childhood in Christian homes.

Even in the books of the New Testament that were written later in the first century, during the time when children were raised in the first Christian homes, we never—not even once—find an example of a child raised in a Christian home who is baptized only upon making a "decision for Christ." Rather, it is always assumed that the children of Christian homes are already Christians, that they have already been "baptized into Christ" (Rom. 6:3). If infant baptism were not the rule, then we should have references to the children of Christian parents joining the Church only after they had come to the age of reason, and there are no such records in the Bible.


 

Specific Biblical References?



But, one might ask, does the Bible ever say that infants or young children can be baptized? The indications are clear. In the New Testament we read that Lydia was converted by Paul’s preaching and that "She was baptized, with her household" (Acts 16:15). The Philippian jailer whom Paul and Silas had converted to the faith was baptized that night along with his household. We are told that "the same hour of the night . . . he was baptized, with all his family" (Acts 16:33). And in his greetings to the Corinthians, Paul recalled that, "I did baptize also the household of Stephanas" (1 Cor. 1:16).

In all these cases, whole households or families were baptized. This means more than just the spouse; the children too were included. If the text of Acts referred simply to the Philippian jailer and his wife, then we would read that "he and his wife were baptized," but we do not. Thus his children must have been baptized as well. The same applies to the other cases of household baptism in Scripture.


Granted, we do not know the exact age of the children; they may have been past the age of reason, rather than infants. Then again, they could have been babes in arms. More probably, there were both younger and older children. Certainly there were children younger than the age of reason in some of the households that were baptized, especially if one considers that society at this time had no reliable form of birth control. Furthermore, given the New Testament pattern of household baptism, if there were to be exceptions to this rule (such as infants), they would be explicit.

Christ prescribed instruction and actual faith for adult converts (Matt. 28:19–20), but his general law on the necessity of baptism (John 3:5) puts no restriction on the subjects of baptism. Although infants are included in the law he establishes, requirements of that law that are impossible to meet because of their age are not applicable to them. They cannot be expected to be instructed and have faith when they are incapable of receiving instruction or manifesting faith. The same was true of circumcision; faith in the Lord was necessary for an adult convert to receive it, but it was not necessary for the children of believers.


It becomes apparent, then, that the Fundamentalist position on infant baptism is not really a consequence of the Bible’s strictures, but of the demands of Fundamentalism’s idea of salvation. In reality, the Bible indicates that infants are to be baptized, that they too are meant to inherit the kingdom of heaven. Further, the witness of the earliest Christian practices and writings must once and for all silence those who criticize the Catholic Church’s teaching on infant baptism. The Catholic Church is merely continuing the tradition established by the first Christians, who heeded the words of Christ: "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God" (Luke 18:16). [/u]


Not a word of what you just posted gives any instruction towards infant baptism. As for children, yes, they can be baptized (I was baptized at 10 or 11). But, that was a conscious decision. And I had to take baptismal classes for my age group BEFORE the ceremony took place.

Babies can't do that.

Butterbean

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2010, 03:38:02 PM »
More detail is given in Luke’s account of this event, which reads: "Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God’" (Luke 18:15–16).
Luke 18:15 says, "Now they were bringing even infants to him" (Greek, Prosepheron de auto kai ta brepha). The Greek word brepha means "infants"—children who are quite unable to approach Christ on their own and who could not possibly make a conscious
decision to "accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.
" And that is precisely the problem. Fundamentalists refuse to permit the baptism of infants and young children, because they are not yet capable of making such a conscious act. But notice what Jesus said: "to such as these [referring to the infants and children who had been brought to him by their mothers] belongs the kingdom of heaven." The Lord did not require them to make a conscious decision. He says that they are precisely the kind of people who can come to him and receive the kingdom. So on what basis, Fundamentalists should be asked, can infants and young children be excluded from the sacrament of baptism? If Jesus said "let them come unto me," who are we to say "no," and withhold baptism from them?


Oh an I suppose households these days don't have infants too  ::)
If there were exceptions to infants in a household Jesus would of made that clear. I'm pretty sure he knew his word would be recorded and lived by.

Next False accusation of the Roman Catholic Church please..

It says they brought them to Him to have them touch them.
Are you saying that Jesus baptized these babies in water?  




Sizwe, do you believe that infant baptism in water results in them being saved?



R

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2010, 03:52:39 PM »
More detail is given in Luke’s account of this event, which reads: "Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God’" (Luke 18:15–16).
Luke 18:15 says, "Now they were bringing even infants to him" (Greek, Prosepheron de auto kai ta brepha). The Greek word brepha means "infants"—children who are quite unable to approach Christ on their own and who could not possibly make a conscious
decision to "accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.
" And that is precisely the problem. Fundamentalists refuse to permit the baptism of infants and young children, because they are not yet capable of making such a conscious act. But notice what Jesus said: "to such as these [referring to the infants and children who had been brought to him by their mothers] belongs the kingdom of heaven." The Lord did not require them to make a conscious decision. He says that they are precisely the kind of people who can come to him and receive the kingdom. So on what basis, Fundamentalists should be asked, can infants and young children be excluded from the sacrament of baptism? If Jesus said "let them come unto me," who are we to say "no," and withhold baptism from them?


Oh an I suppose households these days don't have infants too  ::)
If there were exceptions to infants in a household Jesus would of made that clear. I'm pretty sure he knew his word would be recorded and lived by.

Next False accusation of the Roman Catholic Church please..

The passage you quoted doesn't talk about Jesus baptizing babies. 

I view baptism as a conscience and public decision made by someone to follow Christ.  As McWay said, babies can't do that. 

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Re: POLL: "De-Baptism:" Good Idea or Waste of time? Would you do it?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2010, 08:20:42 AM »
The Lords grace extends to infants.
Luke 18:15 says, "Now they were bringing even infants to him" (Greek, Prosepheron de auto kai ta brepha). The Greek word brepha means "infants"—children who are quite unable to approach Christ on their own and who could not possibly make a conscious
decision to "accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior." Jesus said: "to such as these [referring to the infants and children who had been brought to him by their mothers] belongs the kingdom of heaven." The Lord did not require them to make a conscious decision. So on what basis, can infants and young children be excluded from the sacrament of baptism? If Jesus said them come unto me," who are we to say "no," and withhold baptism from them?
Please tell me where in the Bible it says that infants are to be excluded from the grace of baptism? To say that they cannot receive it because they can’t possibly make the conscious decision is to ADD to God’s word..
Well dunno about you, but Roman Catholics take Christ’s words literally when he said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)

Stella, I would just quickly like to know where you’re coming from.
Which one of the thousands of denominations do you belong to?
Do you believe that the Bible has an objective, infallible truth? If yes, then who has the authority to interpret it? Keep in mind; The Holy Spirit cannot be the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33).




I don't have the time at this very moment to explain your error in your citing and or quotes of the Holy Bible. I will come back when I can appropriately address this. Stella is absolutely correct in her interpretation regarding infant baptism. I will leave you with this.

What question(s) is/are asked of baptismal candidate(s)? This should give you some insight before I return. Although, I'm sure Stella can address this issue, as it has been beat slam to death over the many centuries. She will not have any problem explaining and clearing your inquires up. If not, I'll be back to help you. God speed!
Bright Future Ahead!