Breaking news: Ron Reagan voted for Obama !

[Soul Crusher]

Not quite. Getting reimbursement for doctors/nurses in places with socialized medicine is lower than it is in the U.S. And Shoot1 is correct, when we think of doctors we are usually thinking of surgeons etc, not the ones who own a family practice, local practice, small practice etc....these doctor don't make a ton of money either and I bet they are super pumped when they will make even less.

And my comment about student loans for school still stands, as it was not challenged. Doctors and the like rack up HUGE debt, gigantic debt to get through med school as it is a huge and long term adventure. What happens IF people don't see it as a way to make a good living or they stop seeing it as being "worth it" ? What happens then.

You can't simply call people fear mongers and then hide behind platitudes and interference. I am raising actual important questions, answer them if you want, disprove them if you can. If you can then I will stand corrected and admit it. If you can't or simply don't want to then you can shut the fuck up.

What will happen is we will get more foreign doctors willing to work for less who barely speak English. 

Mal - go into botox, boob jobs, whatever. 

[GigantorX]

What will happen is we will get more foreign doctors willing to work for less who barely speak English. 

Mal - go into botox, boob jobs, whatever. 

Or we will just continue to ration care more and more and more.....

[Option D]

What will happen is we will get more foreign doctors willing to work for less who barely speak English. 

Mal - go into botox, boob jobs, whatever. 

If i wanna be rich...ill do elective procedures.  

no 99213's for me shoot...you know what that means shoot

[The True Adonis]

Or we will just continue to ration care more and more and more.....

In Metal Gear, the NES version, Rations were key to survival.

[GigantorX]

In Metal Gear, the NES version, Rations were key to survival.

Actually, the key to survival was not being seen by the guards and not waking up the dogs.

[Soul Crusher]

If i wanna be rich...ill do elective procedures.  

no 99213's for me shoot...you know what that means shoot

Mal that is where you are wrong.  Just think of the tine you have spent in school vs. working and how much you would have made, plus what you paid in tuition.

4 years od medical school.  = 150k
4 Years of not working - $200k (Assuminig 50k per year out of college)  
________________________ _____________
350k

Lets say you start working for decent money at about - 35 y/o and plan to work until 65 or 70.  

Do you reealize that over that 30 yeat period you need to make up that difference just to break even had you not gone to medical school?

Think about it, and think about what I just told you the next time some moron socialist tells you that Docs do not deserve to make very good money.    
  

[kcballer]

" Doctors will always live a life of a higher standard financially regardless of a nationalized healthcare system.  If you are a good doctor you will earn a lot of money.  Period.  Quit it with the bullsh*t."

This is certainly not absolute.  The amount of money a physician makes is absolutely not proportional to their skill.  Most general physicians make $120-$150K per year.  While that is a good living, it is not a ton of money.  Moreover, physician salaries have not increased to offset regular inflation & cost of living.  Physician salaries have dropped in comparison with other jobs and have not kept up with inflation.  In the meantime, education costs and length of training has increased and physicians typically do more than they have in the past (see more patients, more paperwork, etc).  When you guys think of doctors, many of you think of surgeons and high level specialists who do make a lot of $ (and probably deserve it)...that is not the majority of docs.

Nationalized healthcare will affect all private practice doctors negatively from what I have read.  That forces us all into big systems where we loose autonomy, bureaucracy increases, paperwork and pre-certifications increase, hospital administrators call the shots, we must see more patients/day, more rationing of care will take place and care is no longer just between the patient and their doctor.  The system must be changed, but nationalized healthcare does not look good to me from what I've read so far.

Well you are wrong.  Currently there are examples of people with insurance with no choice but to go to an approved hospital.  How is that fair?  Nationalized health care will enable any citizen to walk into a public hospital and get treatment, anywhere.  I would rather have administrators who care about keeping people alive running things, than insurance companies who care about profit running things.

Dr's WILL always live a high standard and that's fact.  If you are a good dr even under nationalized health care you will earn good money.  It's done in other nationalized countries and will be done in america.  Dr's i have spoken to are all for this because they know their profession is about helping people first and earning money to do so second.  The current system is about money first, people second.  That is the fundamental change that will occur and i for one, can not wait until that day arrives.  It sickens me that it still causes debate.  Something so essential as life and health is given a backseat to profits.  Disgusting.

[Soul Crusher]

Well you are wrong.  Currently there are examples of people with insurance with no choice but to go to an approved hospital.  How is that fair?  Nationalized health care will enable any citizen to walk into a public hospital and get treatment, anywhere.  I would rather have administrators who care about keeping people alive running things, than insurance companies who care about profit running things.

Dr's WILL always live a high standard and that's fact.  If you are a good dr even under nationalized health care you will earn good money.  It's done in other nationalized countries and will be done in america.  Dr's i have spoken to are all for this because they know their profession is about helping people first and earning money to do so second.  The current system is about money first, people second.  That is the fundamental change that will occur and i for one, can not wait until that day arrives.  It sickens me that it still causes debate.  Something so essential as life and health is given a backseat to profits.  Disgusting.

It sickens me that people like yourself think that the govt is going to be more efficient than the private sector when every single thing the Govt does results in failure at a huge cost. 

Go to your DMV or welfare office and see how much the govt thinks of you. 

[kcballer]

It sickens me that people like yourself think that the govt is going to be more efficient than the private sector when every single thing the Govt does results in failure at a huge cost. 

Go to your DMV or welfare office and see how much the govt thinks of you. 

This isn't the DMV or welfare.  That's a bullsh*t deflection.

You are all about the dollar.  You are a sickened individual if you truly believe not every american should have health care. 

[Soul Crusher]

This isn't the DMV or welfare.  That's a bullsh*t deflection.

You are all about the dollar.  You are a sickened individual if you truly believe not every american should have health care. 

Its pure nonsense -

15 Million are illegals who dont deserve squat. 
Another 15 Million are people who are young who choose not to get health care although they can afford it as is right now.

The balance is a nonsense figure that is a transitory number.

And yes, it is the DMV and Welfare office since every govt endeavor ends up in like fashion. 

Go into almost any govt office and it is almost all the same.       

[The True Adonis]

Actually, the key to survival was not being seen by the guards and not waking up the dogs.

ROFLMAO, that game had to be the most difficult thing ever made.

[Hugo Chavez]

hows this breaking news? didn't he endorse Obama?  I thought it came up here during the election

[GigantorX]

ROFLMAO, that game had to be the most difficult thing ever made.

And if you died you had to start all the way over from the beginning.

[The True Adonis]

And if you died you had to start all the way over from the beginning.

Do you play any of the newer ones?  I have yet to play 4, but I absolutely loved 3.

[Hugo Chavez]

I figured I would beat 240 to it.   

Here it is, you way didn't beat 240 to it.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=243753.msg3428130#msg3428130