Author Topic: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)  (Read 2597 times)

Soul Crusher

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Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« on: July 18, 2009, 07:51:48 AM »
O'S BROKEN PROMISES
HEALTH BILLS V. PREZ'S WORDS

By BETSY MCCAUGHEY

Obama: His reform drive has led to bills that hurt everyone who has insurance now.

updated: 1:04 am

July 17, 2009



PRESIDENT Obama promises that "if you like your health plan, you can keep it," even after he reforms our health-care system. That's untrue. The bills now before Congress would force you to switch to a managed-care plan with limits on your access to specialists and tests.

Two main bills are being rushed through Congress with the goal of combining them into a finished product by August. Under either, a new government bureaucracy will select health plans that it considers in your best interest, and you will have to enroll in one of these "qualified plans." If you now get your plan through work, your employer has a five-year "grace period" to switch you into a qualified plan. If you buy your own insurance, you'll have less time.

And as soon as anything changes in your contract -- such as a change in copays or deductibles, which many insurers change every year -- you'll have to move into a qualified plan instead (House bill, p. 16-17).

When you file your taxes, if you can't prove to the IRS that you are in a qualified plan, you'll be fined thousands of dollars -- as much as the average cost of a health plan for your family size -- and then automatically enrolled in a randomly selected plan (House bill, p. 167-168).

It's one thing to require that people getting government assistance tolerate managed care, but the legislation limits you to a managed-care plan even if you and your employer are footing the bill (Senate bill, p. 57-58). The goal is to reduce everyone's consumption of health care and to ensure that people have the same health-care experience, regardless of ability to pay.

Nowhere does the legislation say how much health plans will cost, but a family of four is eligible for some government assistance until their household income reaches $88,000 (House bill, p. 137). If you earn more than that, you'll have to pay the cost no matter how high it goes.

The price tag for this legislation is a whopping $1.04 trillion to $1.6 trillion (Congressional Budget Office estimates). Half of the tab comes from tax increases on individuals earning $280,000 or more, and these new taxes will double in 2012 unless savings exceed predicted costs (House bill, p. 199). The rest of the cost is paid for by cutting seniors' health benefits under Medicare.

There's plenty of waste in Medicare, but the Congressional Budget Office estimates only 1 percent of the savings under the legislation will be from curbing waste, fraud and abuse. That means the rest will likely come from reducing what patients get.

One troubling provision of the House bill compels seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years (and more often if they become sick or go into a nursing home) about alternatives for end-of-life care (House bill, p. 425-430). The sessions cover highly sensitive matters such as whether to receive antibiotics and "the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration."

This mandate invites abuse, and seniors could easily be pushed to refuse care. Do we really want government involved in such deeply personal issues?

Shockingly, only a portion of the money accumulated from slashing senior benefits and raising taxes goes to pay for covering the uninsured. The Senate bill allocates huge sums to "community transformation grants," home visits for expectant families, services for migrant workers -- and the creation of dozens of new government councils, programs and advisory boards slipped into the last 500 pages.

The most recent ABC News/Washington Post poll (June 21) finds that 83 percent of Americans are very satisfied or somewhat satisfied with the quality of their health care, and 81 percent are similarly satisfied with their health insurance.

They have good reason to be. If you're diagnosed with cancer, you have a better chance of surviving it in the United States than anywhere else, according to the Concord Five Continent Study. And the World Health Organization ranked the United States No. 1 out of 191 countries for being responsive to patients' needs, including providing timely treatments and a choice of doctors.

Congress should pursue less radical ways to cover the uninsured. We have too much to lose with this legislation.

Betsy McCaughey is founder of the Committee to Reduce Infection Deaths and a former lieutenant governor of New York. betsy@hospitalinfection.org

________________________ ________________________ ____________________

I am speechless.  We warned you guys.     

Any "Pro Choice" liberal who supports this needs to be hung.


James

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2009, 08:16:52 AM »
Unbelievable !  :o   :o

Soul Crusher

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2009, 08:20:33 AM »
Unbelievable !  :o   :o


And some fools around here accuse me of making things up!

They simply cant bring themselves to admit that they were fooled into voting for someone who is even worse in every respect than the dreaded, hated, despicable, GWB. 

 

GigantorX

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2009, 08:21:33 AM »
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Stop listening to the facts. What you need to do is become an apologist and try to ram this thing through. Who cares if the CBO says that it will cost an order of magnitude more than Obama claims, don't listen to the CBO when they say it won't cover everyone it says. Stop listening to the facts about it being an absolute disaster in the making, that we can't afford it, that it's a bad bill.

Just stop. If it gets passed, all will be right, all will be well, the world will be at peace, no one will ever die again, all the illegal immigrants will have de-facto amnesty and get all the care they want, and they even won't have to pay for any of it!

What's not to like!?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2009, 08:26:18 AM »
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Stop listening to the facts. What you need to do is become an apologist and try to ram this thing through. Who cares if the CBO says that it will cost an order of magnitude more than Obama claims, don't listen to the CBO when they say it won't cover everyone it says. Stop listening to the facts about it being an absolute disaster in the making, that we can't afford it, that it's a bad bill.

Just stop. If it gets passed, all will be right, all will be well, the world will be at peace, no one will ever die again, all the illegal immigrants will have de-facto amnesty and get all the care they want, and they even won't have to pay for any of it!

What's not to like!?

You know what, these threads never get traction, but the Palin ones do.  Watch, go post a thread about Palin walking her dog and see the posts on that.

Yet, these scumbags vote gave us this marxist tyrant are silent while their boy wonder destroys this nation. 

Slapper

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2009, 08:35:01 AM »
You know what, these threads never get traction, but the Palin ones do.  Watch, go post a thread about Palin walking her dog and see the posts on that.

Yet, these scumbags vote gave us this marxist tyrant are silent while their boy wonder destroys this nation. 

Dude, what do you care? I mean... it's not like the cash business is going down the drain.  ;) ;)

You're still not going to have to pay your fair shares in taxes. Relax dude. Live a little.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2009, 08:45:29 AM »
Dude, what do you care? I mean... it's not like the cash business is going down the drain.  ;) ;)

You're still not going to have to pay your fair shares in taxes. Relax dude. Live a little.

Sorry, I dont cheat on my taxes like all Obama's cabinet members do. 

I pay taxes onlike most of the people who voted for Obama. 

Slapper

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2009, 08:59:18 AM »
Sorry, I dont cheat on my taxes like all Obama's cabinet members do. 

I pay taxes onlike most of the people who voted for Obama. 

Onlike?

I hate to break it to you... but we all pay taxes. All of us. Buy a pair of pants? Pay taxes. Buy a movie? Pay taxes. Buy a bottle of scotch? Pay taxes.

And, at the end of the day, when you tally it all up, meaning services paid for vs. services received, it's the ones at the bottom getting stiffed.

Not you.

You are not a victim.

You have money (or so I think).

headhuntersix

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2009, 09:09:57 AM »
Paying taxes for roads, police, defense, etc etc is alot different then paying for bs social programs that benefit a small percentage of Americans. Or how about paying for illegals? Why am I paying for them. Why am I paying for the mounds of beaucratic bullshit that this bill will create. Is government not big enough. I have to laugh at all u people who cant wait for government healthcare. I'm on a gov healthcare program and it works marginally for less the 1% of the population......just wait until u are all on it. You folks will all be on it because nobody in their right mind will keep employees on a private program. I'm sure a small percentage will have it but most will have Barrycare.
L

Slapper

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2009, 09:16:36 AM »
Paying taxes for roads, police, defense, etc etc is alot different then paying for bs social programs that benefit a small percentage of Americans. Or how about paying for illegals? Why am I paying for them. Why am I paying for the mounds of beaucratic bullshit that this bill will create. Is government not big enough. I have to laugh at all u people who cant wait for government healthcare. I'm on a gov healthcare program and it works marginally for less the 1% of the population......just wait until u are all on it. You folks will all be on it because nobody in their right mind will keep employees on a private program. I'm sure a small percentage will have it but most will have Barrycare.

You're friggin military.

If you want to eliminate social programs why don't we start with you. I mean, you young patriotic whipper-snappers want to defend your country? Ok, next time president X declares a war I want to see you at the local Outdoorsman buying your own gun, ammunition, camouflage suit, tuna cans and a canoe so you can paddle your patriotic arse to whatever country president X decides to "liberate". All of it paid out of YOUR OWN POCKET.

Then you will have enough props to bitch and moan about socialism.

GigantorX

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2009, 09:29:58 AM »
You're friggin military.

If you want to eliminate social programs why don't we start with you. I mean, you young patriotic whipper-snappers want to defend your country? Ok, next time president X declares a war I want to see you at the local Outdoorsman buying your own gun, ammunition, camouflage suit, tuna cans and a canoe so you can paddle your patriotic arse to whatever country president X decides to "liberate". All of it paid out of YOUR OWN POCKET.

Then you will have enough props to bitch and moan about socialism.

This qualifies as the absolute dumbest thing I've heard on this board. Ever

Do you really believe that shit that you just wrote?

Slapper

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2009, 09:36:02 AM »
This qualifies as the absolute dumbest thing I've heard on this board. Ever

Do you really believe that shit that you just wrote?

What I read in your comment is that you do not understand sarcasm.

And that I, or anyone else here, cannot help you understand.

You know what the cure is: Start reading from page one and don't let the ADD convince you to stop before the last page, OK?

Get back to me when you're done.

GigantorX

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2009, 09:38:15 AM »
What I read in your comment is that you do not understand sarcasm.

And that I, or anyone else here, can help you understand.

You know what the cure is: Start reading from page one and don't let the ADD convince you to stop before the last page, OK?

Get back to me when you're done.

 ::) ::) ::) ::)

There is so much dumb shit that gets posted in this forum that it really is tough to see who is being sarcastic and who is actually being genuine. Words on a page, especially in the forum, can be hard to discern.

Slapper

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2009, 09:49:42 AM »
::) ::) ::) ::)

There is so much dumb shit that gets posted in this forum that it really is tough to see who is being sarcastic and who is actually being genuine. Words on a page, especially in the forum, can be hard to discern.

No, I don't think it's so much about that. I think it has to do with people eager to connect, jumping into the first post they see, not bother to read all the comments, pick and choose the first one we do not like on the last page and then take the flow of the thread in an entirely different direction. That's why you see some threads about, for example, Palin's bra ending up with HH6 somehow bringing Kim Jong-Il into the fray.

I do confess I do that too once in a while.

We're all soldiers in the army of the Lord brother!

GigantorX

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2009, 09:56:12 AM »
No, I don't think it's so much about that. I think it has to do with people eager to connect, jumping into the first post they see, not bother to read all the comments, pick and choose the first one we do not like on the last page and then take the flow of the thread in an entirely different direction. That's why you see some threads about, for example, Palin's bra ending up with HH6 somehow bringing Kim Jong-Il into the fray.

I do confess I do that too once in a while.

We're all soldiers in the army of the Lord brother!

I read the thread and you struck me as being serious, of course if it were an actual face to face conversation I probably could have detected the sarcasm. Mons Venus has forever linked HH6 and trolling socialism posts, forever.

blacken700

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2009, 10:15:30 AM »


LOL! BETSY!! HAH! She's a loon! Governor Pataki fired her coz she was always making wacky statements without coordinating with anyone at all. She tried to run against him for Gov in the next election but the Democrats didn't elect her in the primaries so she ran against him as a Liberatarian or somesuch.

She always has this "those poor starving puppies out in the cold and the rain" expression when she's talking about anything.

Fast forward to 2009, and another fallacious McCaughey claim based on a clear misreading of legislative language makes the rounds of conservative media. Her claim that health information technology and comparative effectiveness research would cause rationing and give big gubmint a veto over your medical care is ridiculous. Only this time, a mainstream reporter actually chronicled how that conservative media puke funnel reinforces itself and creates opinion where there are only lies. And then a cable news show thoroughly debunks the lie in a long segment. And a series of blog posts reveal that McCaughey is on the board of directors of a medical device company and therefore has a conflict of interest over stopping comparative effectiveness studies, or that she received stock options from that company days before writing her flase op-ed in Bloomberg, or that the think tank she works at is funded by drug companies.

grab an umbrella

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2009, 11:53:17 AM »
A.  We cannot afford this.

B.  Name me one government program that isn't in the red.

C.  Do you believe its right to punish citizens for not having healthcare?

Dos Equis

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2009, 12:02:09 PM »
A.  We cannot afford this.

B.  Name me one government program that isn't in the red.

C.  Do you believe its right to punish citizens for not having healthcare?

A. Completely agree.

B.  That's one of the main reasons we shouldn't have the federal government running the healthcare system.

C.  No way.

240 is Back

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2009, 12:18:55 PM »
how does this healthcare plan compare with those of other nations?

are we just catching up with the rest of the socialist world, or is this LIB on the level beyond Europe?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2009, 05:05:08 PM »
how does this healthcare plan compare with those of other nations?

are we just catching up with the rest of the socialist world, or is this LIB on the level beyond Europe?

The problem 240 is that the tax rates needed to pass this will put us beyond most of Europe in terms of tax rates.  The economy does not need more govt meddling right now and more taxes.  Its madness to impose new taxes right now. 

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2009, 05:16:33 PM »
in all honestly...i could care less what obama or bush did....its usually just fun to argue...however...


how come people weren't THIS up in arms about bullshit spending when we were dropping trillions or dollars/yr on a war that up till now has not paid off in ANY way...

other than causing..death...debt... and a healthy terrorist recruting ground  :-\

dosen't add up...i'm mean NOW you r all up in arms?  or is the " unnecessary spending of US $s that could lead to debt" meter wired wrong?  ???
carpe` vaginum!

Heywood

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2009, 07:19:22 PM »
Sadly, it may be necessary for Obama to destroy something important, like healthcare, in order for people to realize what they have and vote him out in 4 years.

He wants free healthcare for his core constituency voters, and wants the rich to pay for it.  However there aren't enough rich people to pay for it, so it'll be the middle class who ends up paying.



ToxicAvenger

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2009, 07:36:51 AM »
just kick out all illegals and ya save a few billion instantly
carpe` vaginum!

Soul Crusher

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2009, 07:59:50 AM »
just kick out all illegals and ya save a few billion instantly

No kidding!  15 million of the alleged 45 million people without insurance aree illegal aliens.  Obama is not telling the public that because he knows that his plan is insane. 

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Health Care Bill's shocking details (MUST READ NOW!)
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2009, 08:12:05 AM »
No kidding!  15 million of the alleged 45 million people without insurance aree illegal aliens.  Obama is not telling the public that because he knows that his plan is insane. 

i dunno the numbers...but..

either kick the illegals out

OR

give me back my 80k my family spent on lawyers to get our citizenships
carpe` vaginum!