Sign the Healthcare petition!!!

[Soul Crusher]

I just want facts....I want an opinion that says...we can do this and we'll get money here etc. I want one of these idiots to stop feeling sorry for these people for a minute and look at the big picture. 45 million people of how many, don't have insurance? Please explain to me why its my problem that they don't have insurance, why I need to pay for it, and how I benefit.

[OzmO]

I just want facts....I want an opinion that says...we can do this and we'll get money here etc. I want one of these idiots to stop feeling sorry for these people for a minute and look at the big picture. 45 million people of how many, don't have insurance? Please explain to me why its my problem that they don't have insurance, why I need to pay for it, and how I benefit.

Funny thing is, I'm hell bent to see anyone admit there is even a problem.

[Hereford]

What alot of the pro-universal healthcare crowd won't tell you is that a good number of their statisitics on the uninsured come from illegals.

They won't bring that up because that would put them in a position that is very difficult to defend to most rational people.

[Soul Crusher]

What alot of the pro-universal healthcare crowd won't tell you is that a good number of their statisitics on the uninsured come from illegals.

They won't bring that up because that would put them in a position that is very difficult to defend to most rational people.

That's right.   1/3 of the 45 million are illegal aliens.

[OzmO]

That's right.   1/3 of the 45 million are illegal aliens.

So it's 30 million people.  Well that's ok then there's nothing wrong with our healthcare system.

PS:   I thought it was 12 million illegals in our country?

[Soul Crusher]

So it's 30 million people.  Well that's ok then there's nothing wrong with our healthcare system.

PS:   I thought it was 12 million illegals in our country?

There are many problems.  No one is saying that.  But even the CBO said this will increase the debt and deficit. 

Additionally, you cant have 45 million new patients without doing tort reform and not expect a flood of new lawsuits.

Finally, you cant have 45 million new patients, without a flood of new providers, and not expect longer waits, rationing, and less levels of care.   

[Hereford]

So it's 30 million people.  Well that's ok then there's nothing wrong with our healthcare system.

PS:   I thought it was 12 million illegals in our country?

That number is pure conjecture, and about 6-8 years old. 15-18m is thought to be more like it nowdays.

[shootfighter1]

There are between 12 and 18 million illegal immigrants in this country.  There needs to be a provision to ensure these people are not covered with our tax dollars if there is any kind of gov plan passed.  The moderate democrats need to push for this.

There are so many things that could be done by the government before pushing a nationalized plan!  These items would be good whether or not we eventually decide to change to a public plan.  There is no excuse why we wouldn't try interventions within the current system first...except that the president and some democratic leaders have a very specific agenda they are forcing down our throats.

[Soul Crusher]

There are between 12 and 18 million illegal immigrants in this country.  There needs to be a provision to ensure these people are not covered with our tax dollars if there is any kind of gov plan passed.  The moderate democrats need to push for this.

There are so many things that could be done by the government before pushing a nationalized plan!  These items would be good whether or not we eventually decide to change to a public plan.  There is no excuse why we wouldn't try interventions within the current system first...except that the president and some democratic leaders have a very specific agenda they are forcing down our throats.

How about we treat illegals in the ER.  As soon as they show up, they get treated and ICE gets called?

[Soul Crusher]

There are between 12 and 18 million illegal immigrants in this country.  There needs to be a provision to ensure these people are not covered with our tax dollars if there is any kind of gov plan passed.  The moderate democrats need to push for this.

There are so many things that could be done by the government before pushing a nationalized plan!  These items would be good whether or not we eventually decide to change to a public plan.  There is no excuse why we wouldn't try interventions within the current system first...except that the president and some democratic leaders have a very specific agenda they are forcing down our throats.

Hey shoot, can you please explain "defensive medicine"? 

[shootfighter1]

In general, it is the practice of using excessive testing and proceedures to justify a diagnosis or to rule out any possible other medical explanations, mainly in responce to the threat of a lawsuit. 

Patients can sue the hospital and doctor for any reason, as long as a lawyer will take the case.  In medicine, there are always bad outcomes...people may sue because of the outcome (which testing often doesn't change) or a failure to test.  Some patients come in and want every test done in the book.  Docs (and hospitals) are afraid of suits -because even if they are bad lawsuits, its always on your record and your malpractice costs go up forever- so they give in to patients and the treat of lawsuits.

We must also decrease spending and testing at the end of life.  When a patient has less than 6 months or a year to live, we cannot continue to spend excessive amounts of money on their care.  Defensive medicine practices, overtesting, frivelous lawsuits, allowing lawyers to push for excessive damages (because they receive a %), malpractice premiums, and excessive end of life spending are all significant factors driving up the costs of medicine.

[Soul Crusher]

In general, it is the practice of using excessive testing and proceedures to justify a diagnosis or to rule out any possible other medical explanations, mainly in responce to the threat of a lawsuit. 

Patients can sue the hospital and doctor for any reason, as long as a lawyer will take the case.  In medicine, there are always bad outcomes...people may sue because of the outcome (which testing often doesn't change) or a failure to test.  Some patients come in and want every test done in the book.  Docs (and hospitals) are afraid of suits -because even if they are bad lawsuits, its always on your record and your malpractice costs go up forever- so they give in to patients and the treat of lawsuits.

We must also decrease spending and testing at the end of life.  When a patient has less than 6 months or a year to live, we cannot continue to spend excessive amounts of money on their care.  Defensive medicine practices, overtesting, frivelous lawsuits, allowing lawyers to push for excessive damages (because they receive a %), malpractice premiums, and excessive end of life spending are all significant factors driving up the costs of medicine.

That's my point.  When these clowns say Med Mal judgements are a small percentage of overall costs, they ignore the fact that many procedures are being done just in CYA mode to avoid a lawsuit. 

[muscleforlife]

How do you feel about veterans who are uninsured?
People who have defended this country should not be uninsured.

Illegals should not be insured, I agree with that.
Anyone thinking that people using emergency rooms as a personal doctor is no big deal is laughable.

With the downturn of the economy, hospitals and insurance companies are sticking it to the people who are insured.

So, once you are no longer in the military, or just lost your job.  Unemployment benefits runs out, a low paying job doesn't give benefits, what do we as a people do to help each other.

Remember, at anytime that uninsured, unemployed person could be you or me.
Sandra

[shootfighter1]

In know the VA isn't very good, but don't all vets have access to the VA system?

We can work within the system to reduce the cost of healthcare, increase efficiency and allow more free competition between insurance companies (allow them to compete against each other across state lines).  The gov can step in and set some rules for insurance companies...like no denial for pre-existing conditions.  The gov can give better tax breaks and offer more group purchasing options for small and mid size businesses.  I don't like too much interference in free markets but I think banking and healthcare are two areas where there must be federal regulations to protect citizens.

[headhuntersix]

In know the VA isn't very good, but don't all vets have access to the VA system?

We can work within the system to reduce the cost of healthcare, increase efficiency and allow more free competition between insurance companies (allow them to compete against each other across state lines).  The gov can step in and set some rules for insurance companies...like no denial for pre-existing conditions.  The gov can give better tax breaks and offer more group purchasing options for small and mid size businesses.  I don't like too much interference in free markets but I think banking and healthcare are two areas where there must be federal regulations to protect citizens.

Yes we do...as well as Tri Care for life...as long as u pay the premium, it works like ur Insurance. I can also get varied levels of coverage and I can drop coverage and get gap/supplemental coverage that works great. U have to pay for it...much like anything else.

[OzmO]

There are many problems.  No one is saying that.  But even the CBO said this will increase the debt and deficit. 

Additionally, you cant have 45 million new patients without doing tort reform and not expect a flood of new lawsuits.

Finally, you cant have 45 million new patients, without a flood of new providers, and not expect longer waits, rationing, and less levels of care.   

I like your angle on TORT however, illegals are here to stay because the politicians will not get them out. 

[muscleforlife]

In know the VA isn't very good, but don't all vets have access to the VA system?

We can work within the system to reduce the cost of healthcare, increase efficiency and allow more free competition between insurance companies (allow them to compete against each other across state lines).  The gov can step in and set some rules for insurance companies...like no denial for pre-existing conditions.  The gov can give better tax breaks and offer more group purchasing options for small and mid size businesses.  I don't like too much interference in free markets but I think banking and healthcare are two areas where there must be federal regulations to protect citizens.

I think that vets are cut off if they earn 30k or more.
I would have to look it up.
There have been budget cuts in a lot of "social" programs, the VA among them.
Benefits of the military used to be one of the selling points of joining.  Then it was the draw of college education.
  Sandra

[OzmO]

There are many problems.  No one is saying that. 

NOT true.  Some people say the lazy bastards need to work and sacrifice their cable bill for med insurance all the while never acknowledging that there is a serious problem with our health care.

It's ranked pathetically low, over bloated, over priced.  

[muscleforlife]

Yes we do...as well as Tri Care for life...as long as u pay the premium, it works like ur Insurance. I can also get varied levels of coverage and I can drop coverage and get gap/supplemental coverage that works great. U have to pay for it...much like anything else.

The point is not all veterans are healthy enough to meld back to their former lives.  Can't get your old job back, have mental, physical injuries due to the wars.
If you have to depend on disability and Social security, what is the quality of coverage do you get?

I guess that is why the Walter Reed scandal was so bad.
Sandra

[MM2K]

 

The gov can step in and set some rules for insurance companies...like no denial for pre-existing conditions. 

The only way you could ban insurance companies from denying cheap insuarance to people with pre-existing conditions WITHOUT substantially raising the cost of insurance for others is if you forced everyone to get some form of basic insurance in the first place. And in practice Im not so sure that is feasable. Please understand that people with pre-existing conditions are not denied insurance. They just have to pay a much higher price for it than others which makes perfect sense.

 

  The gov can give better tax breaks and offer more group purchasing options for small and mid size businesses.

 

The government needs to either give tax breaks to individuals or subsidize individuals to buy private individual insurance. The central problem with the system is that there is no market for individual private insurance. It is all crowded out either by government or big employers. So the problem is the governement.

 

I don't like too much interference in free markets but I think banking and healthcare are two areas where there must be federal regulations to protect citizens.

Those are the two sectors where government is MORE involved, not less. And government is the problem, not the solution.