Incredible picture of Racist/rogue Cop Crowley/Gates/Obama

[The True Adonis]

You are the first supposed socialist that I have ever heard of wanting a flat tax.

Every socialist state relies on progressive tax rates.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6297
In 1848 Marx and Engels proposed that progressive taxation be used "to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeois, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state." Although communism has failed, the idea of progressive taxation, as a means of achieving "social justice," remains ingrained in the modern liberal psyche.

Marx was a Communist.     Socialism is not Communism.

[Soul Crusher]

Stop the Press!

Something we can agree on.

I always knew you had a little Inner-Socialist lurking.

Has nothing to with socialism, I 'm talking from what actually occurs with the tax code, espcecially an income tax v sales tax.  The income tax is also a huge burden to the economy since people and companies have to spend billions just to hire accountants to deal with this mess.  Shit, the IRS cant even figure out the tax code.  

The income tax discourages savings and promotes corruption like we have.  It is the cause of a ton of lobbying efforts, graft, etc. and the politicians are able to be bought off very easily with tinkering with the tax code.

A flat sales tax is the fairest, and is the most honest since the pacs, lobbyists, spcial interests, etc, will not be able to rig the tax code to create special exceptions, loop holes, etc.  

      

[The True Adonis]

You are the first supposed socialist that I have ever heard of wanting a flat tax.

Every socialist state relies on progressive tax rates.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6297
In 1848 Marx and Engels proposed that progressive taxation be used "to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeois, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state." Although communism has failed, the idea of progressive taxation, as a means of achieving "social justice," remains ingrained in the modern liberal psyche.

http://spectator.org/blog/2009/05/27/socialist-sales-tax-may-be-com
Socialist Sales Tax May Be Coming to America
By Matthew Vadum on 5.27.09 @ 8:30PM

The Washington Post reports that a national sales tax, embraced by some because it would prop up the faltering social welfare state, is gaining fans in Congress.
We'll see how far lawmakers like Senate Budget Committee chairman Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota) who think such a tax would be a good thing for America get with the proposal.
"There is a growing awareness of the need for fundamental tax reform," Conrad said. "I think a VAT and a high-end income tax have got to be on the table."
The paper describes a VAT, or value-added tax, as "a tax on the transfer of goods and services that ultimately is borne by the consumer. Highly visible, it would increase the cost of just about everything, from a carton of eggs to a visit with a lawyer. It is also hugely regressive, falling heavily on the poor."
I suspect such a tax, depending on how it is administered, might actually provoke civil unrest in America because consumers would quickly tire of shelling out extra for everything or virtually everything they purchase. The beauty of income taxes, from the statist point of view, is that they are generally withheld at the source, and so income earners don't feel the same kind of pain at the loss of money they never had in the first place.
Europeans and Canadians may put up with this burdensome tax scheme but my guess is Americans would not.
Meanwhile, Phil Kerpen of Americans for Prosperity has a good summary of the ramifications of bringing a national sales tax to the U.S.

[Soul Crusher]

http://spectator.org/blog/2009/05/27/socialist-sales-tax-may-be-com
Socialist Sales Tax May Be Coming to America
By Matthew Vadum on 5.27.09 @ 8:30PM

The Washington Post reports that a national sales tax, embraced by some because it would prop up the faltering social welfare state, is gaining fans in Congress.
We'll see how far lawmakers like Senate Budget Committee chairman Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota) who think such a tax would be a good thing for America get with the proposal.
"There is a growing awareness of the need for fundamental tax reform," Conrad said. "I think a VAT and a high-end income tax have got to be on the table."
The paper describes a VAT, or value-added tax, as "a tax on the transfer of goods and services that ultimately is borne by the consumer. Highly visible, it would increase the cost of just about everything, from a carton of eggs to a visit with a lawyer. It is also hugely regressive, falling heavily on the poor."
I suspect such a tax, depending on how it is administered, might actually provoke civil unrest in America because consumers would quickly tire of shelling out extra for everything or virtually everything they purchase. The beauty of income taxes, from the statist point of view, is that they are generally withheld at the source, and so income earners don't feel the same kind of pain at the loss of money they never had in the first place.
Europeans and Canadians may put up with this burdensome tax scheme but my guess is Americans would not.
Meanwhile, Phil Kerpen of Americans for Prosperity has a good summary of the ramifications of bringing a national sales tax to the U.S.

TA - THIS IS AN ADDITION TO THE INCOME TAX

[The True Adonis]

TA - THIS IS AN ADDITION TO THE INCOME TAX

The "addition" or "National Sales Tax" is what some in your party refer to as a Socialist Tax.

National Sales Taxes are Socialist and you recognize that they are the best form of taxation so I don`t see the argument.  The current Socialistic nations have a National Sales Tax without an income tax.

[Soul Crusher]

The "addition" or "National Sales Tax" is what some in your party refer to as a Socialist Tax.

National Sales Taxes are Socialist and you recognize that they are the best form of taxation so I don`t see the argument.  The current Socialistic nations have a National Sales Tax without an income tax.

I would be 100% favor of this tax only if they repealed the 17th Amendmenent to the Constitution.  I think that is the one re: the income tax.

Without repealing the income tax, I am not in favor of this since they can always increase both. 

 

[Soul Crusher]

The "addition" or "National Sales Tax" is what some in your party refer to as a Socialist Tax.

National Sales Taxes are Socialist and you recognize that they are the best form of taxation so I don`t see the argument.  The current Socialistic nations have a National Sales Tax without an income tax.

Here is the other problem TA, The govt will not know how much money people are making with a straight sales tax.  Do you think they will relinquish that type of control? 

Additionally, the politicians are addcited to spending and can force you to pay up more with an income tax.  With a sales tax, they cant force you to spend more. 

[a_joker10]

TA - THIS IS AN ADDITION TO THE INCOME TAX

Of course it is because the poor won't pay.
We have a national sales tax in Canada and everyone who makes under 35,000 gets money from the government.
The Carbon Tax would work the same way.

Adonis -  All taxes are viewed as socialist. By conservatives because they redistribute wealth.

Progressive Income taxes is a large party of Socialism.

By the way

Marx was a Communist.     Socialism is not Communism.

Marx lead to Marxism not communism.

Marxism is the backbone of both Communism and Socialism.

[The True Adonis]

I would be 100% favor of this tax only if they repealed the 17th Amendmenent to the Constitution.  I think that is the one re: the income tax.

Without repealing the income tax, I am not in favor of this since they can always increase both. 

 

I agree.  Income Tax should be repealed Federally and only used in times of war if needed as was the original intent of Lincoln`s Secretary of the Treasury, Salmon P. Chase.

[The True Adonis]

Of course it is because the poor won't pay.
We have a national sales tax in Canada and everyone who makes under 35,000 gets money from the government.
The Carbon Tax would work the same way.

Adonis -  All taxes are viewed as socialist. By conservatives because they redistribute wealth.

Progressive Income taxes is a large party of Socialism.

By the way Marx lead to Marxism not communism.

Marxism is the backbone of both Communism and Socialism.

Do you support solely a National Sales tax as 333366 and I do?

[a_joker10]

Do you support solely a National Sales tax as 333366 and I do?

Hell no,

I am firm believer in progressive income taxes mixed with a national sales tax.

Even though I am in the higher tax brackets.

For me I think of the sales tax as the ultimate Carbon Tax because it limits the production and use of energy.
I don't believe in using a separate carbon tax because then the disadvantaged wind up footing most of the bill, because they can't afford to fix up their house, moved to a better building or replace their transportation.

[Soul Crusher]

Hell no,

I am firm believer in progressive income taxes mixed with a national sales tax.

Even though I am in the higher tax brackets.

For me I think of the sales tax as the ultimate Carbon Tax because it limits the production and use of energy.
I don't believe in using a separate carbon tax because then the disadvantaged wind up footing most of the bill, because they can't afford to fix up their house, moved to a better building or replace their transportation.

My beef with income taxes is that there are crafty ways they can screw with you even if the rates dont change.

With a sales tax, it is what it is. 

The real culprit however, is govt spending gone insane.  The insane level of govt spending on all levels makes all levels of taxation extremely burdensome right now. 

Whether it is a low income tax or low sales tax, who cares?  However, the rates we have now on federal and state levels is becoming almost to the point of confiscatory.   

[a_joker10]

My beef with income taxes is that there are crafty ways they can screw with you even if the rates dont change.

With a sales tax, it is what it is. 

The real culprit however, is govt spending gone insane.  The insane level of govt spending on all levels makes all levels of taxation extremely burdensome right now. 

Whether it is a low income tax or low sales tax, who cares?  However, the rates we have now on federal and state levels is becoming almost to the point of confiscatory.   

I like many thing in the US system.
One of the things I don't like though is the way that riders are placed on bills so that do your own income tax becomes impossible.
There are many loop holes on the long form that most people are not aware of and this makes income tax unfair.

You are right the level of spending is unsustainable and it needs to be reviewed.

Too many lobbyists in the US as well, the causes many programs to either bloat up or exponentially increase the cost of programs.

For example, why do drug companies that use taxpayer money or charitable get to keep the patent on these drugs.
This is one of the main reasons drugs are getting so expensive and should be fixed.

[24KT]

Jews,from which I come from, always know the value and always have an appreciation for the dollar.  
 

 

[24KT]

A sales tax is based on how much you consumer.  If you consume more, you pay more.  It allows you to have a choice how much you pay, which I agree with from a freedom poiint of view.  However, the politicians will never allow you that choice and spend too much.  There is no way this can work, sadly.  We have structural spwending and debt obligations that never can be taken care of with a sales tax.  Its sad, but its the reality of the matter.   

It also promotes savings which I agree with as well.  The current tax structure encourages wasteful consumption by businesses looking for writeoffs.
 

You'd be surprised how well a federal consumer tax works. How do you think Canada paid off our debt, and turned our deficits into surpluses. You'd be surprised how far a 7% tax on all goods & services go. Heaven help the federal leader who brings it in though, ...there's no way he gets re-elected to anything ever again.