Misunderstanding about natural limit.

[physicsgeek]

Yeah, atleast 240-250 while not being too fat. Good luck with that. 

And we are talking about average height bodybuilder right? Around 175 cm, 5"9.

Haha, I know it isn't realistic for most. Ya average height. I am 5' 9".

[Nasty Nate]

I think Tom Platz said it best... "A body is like a car...and steroids are like putting wax on it."

Steroids work differently for different people...I get a lot harder...and little bigger...but really it just makes me look better...then again my natural bodyweight is fairly big. (about 230-240 at 5"11 at about 12-13% bodyfat)...I only jump up about 10-15 pounds on gear.

M!

If Tom didn't use steroids he'd be driving a pinto instead of a lambo... that's more a more realistic comparison.

[Van_Bilderass]

Oh, I forgot to add, although I don't compete, I love the sport. I don't have anything against someone who decides to take steroids. I work as a defense contractor for the US Govt for the past 15 yrs and as such I am subject to routine drug tests.  As long as I can purchase the product legally over the counter I'm not worried.  That's why I tried the Superdrol/Phere Plex and the Decabolen.  If I get tested then it's on big deal. I'm not competing so it really isn't a matter of an unfair advantage.  

Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Pat

This is such bullshit. Didn't you read about that guy working at a nuclear plant that was fired after using an OTC hormone?

Iraq? Kosovo? The drugs are flowing in great amounts over there. Don't try to tell us guys in your line of business don't use steroids. There's been recent newspaper articles on the rampant steroid use of US guys working in Iraq for example.

I don't think you guys are tested for steroids unless someone really has a personal vendetta against you. The first pics you posted I bet you were on Galenika Enanthate.  You are clearly on drugs there.

Now you're paranoid that they will start testing but you can't give up the drugs so you try to stay with the OTC products to have plausible deniability.

[Van_Bilderass]

I want to correct the concept about the natural limit of you guys.

This is the truth.

Size...........You can reach almost 202lbs pro level mass without even supps if you have a average genetics.

Quality........You cant even reach the hardness of local competitors. It doesnt mean that natural bbers are fatter. Just natural bber look way softer than juicers.

You can't get hard without insulin (of all things!), right Kyomu? 

[dr.chimps]

This is such bullshit. Didn't you read about that guy working at a nuclear plant that was fired after using an OTC hormone?

Iraq? Kosovo? The drugs are flowing in great amounts over there. Don't try to tell us guys in your line of business don't use steroids. There's been recent newspaper articles on the rampant steroid use of US guys working in Iraq for example.

I don't think you guys are tested for steroids unless someone really has a personal vendetta against you. The first pics you posted I bet you were on Galenika Enanthate.  You are clearly on drugs there.

Now you're paranoid that they will start testing but you can't give up the drugs so you try to stay with the OTC products to have plausible deniability.

LOL. Political doublespeak hits Getbig. Only a matter of time, I 'spose. 

[Van_Bilderass]

LOL. Political doublespeak hits Getbig. Only a matter of time, I 'spose. 

Was the term appropriate to use there? I'm not a native English speaker (writer). 

[arce1988]

  ...

[ManBearPig...]

  ...

thank god you posted this, you FUCKING ASSHOLE, STOP POSTING!!!!

[dyslexic]

Why don't we put this "misunderstanding" to a test? What better candidate than yourself since we have all seen so many (too many?) pics and videos already?


Kyomu, get started on 500 mg a week of Sustanon and let's see if your physique changes. We can just call it an experiment, and you still won't be considered a juicer.


Once you come off, we can take a look at how smooth you don't get-- or do get.


Maybe you could throw a little Clen in the mix and use the Palumbo "no carb" diet.

[SaltShaker]

I want to correct the concept about the natural limit of you guys.

This is the truth.

Size...........You can reach almost 202lbs pro level mass without even supps if you have a average genetics.

Quality........You cant even reach the hardness of local competitors. It doesnt mean that natural bbers are fatter. Just natural bber look way softer than juicers.

this coming from a juiced up "natty" . thanks 

[turnerg31]

This is such bullshit. Didn't you read about that guy working at a nuclear plant that was fired after using an OTC hormone?

Iraq? Kosovo? The drugs are flowing in great amounts over there. Don't try to tell us guys in your line of business don't use steroids. There's been recent newspaper articles on the rampant steroid use of US guys working in Iraq for example.

I don't think you guys are tested for steroids unless someone really has a personal vendetta against you. The first pics you posted I bet you were on Galenika Enanthate.  You are clearly on drugs there.

Now you're paranoid that they will start testing but you can't give up the drugs so you try to stay with the OTC products to have plausible deniability.

You are ranting and raving about bullshit and you dont have a clue of what you are talking about. Many of the jobs I have had since beeing over here require security clearances and yes you can be tested at any time for any reason.  Of course there are guys using steroids that work over here.  There are thousands of companies that employ workers in this region and not all of them require clearances or even work directly for the government on many occasions.  Yes there have been people fired for using and possessing steroids over here and they will continue to do so. No, the jobs that I've had will not fire you for taking something that is legal to buy over the counter. They wouldn't have any authority to unless they had some company rules regarding those types of products, which none of the companies I have worked for has had.  So before you go spouting off at the hole check to make sure you know what you are talking about.  Thanks.

Pat

[Van_Bilderass]

You are ranting and raving about bullshit and you dont have a clue of what you are talking about. Many of the jobs I have had since beeing over here require security clearances and yes you can be tested at any time for any reason.  Of course there are guys using steroids that work over here.  There are thousands of companies that employ workers in this region and not all of them require clearances or even work directly for the government on many occasions.  Yes there have been people fired for using and possessing steroids over here and they will continue to do so. No, the jobs that I've had will not fire you for taking something that is legal to buy over the counter. They wouldn't have any authority to unless they had some company rules regarding those types of products, which none of the companies I have worked for has had.  So before you go spouting off at the hole check to make sure you know what you are talking about.  Thanks.

Pat

Those products aren't really legal to sell. That's the problem, brolio. And not only that, many of them are tainted with scheduled anabolics. See the 6-OXO case for example. You test positive for Dianabol or Trenbolone or Methyltestosterone, will you be cleared if you show your bottle of "DECAVOL" or whatever? You take Gaspari's Novedex XT and you'll test positive for boldenone, a highly illegal steroid.

[turnerg31]

This is such bullshit. Didn't you read about that guy working at a nuclear plant that was fired after using an OTC hormone?

Iraq? Kosovo? The drugs are flowing in great amounts over there. Don't try to tell us guys in your line of business don't use steroids. There's been recent newspaper articles on the rampant steroid use of US guys working in Iraq for example.

I don't think you guys are tested for steroids unless someone really has a personal vendetta against you. The first pics you posted I bet you were on Galenika Enanthate.  You are clearly on drugs there.

Now you're paranoid that they will start testing but you can't give up the drugs so you try to stay with the OTC products to have plausible deniability.

Oh, I forgot to say thanks for that "clearly on drugs comment."   I've heard it before and hopefully I'll hear it again.  That means I must be doing something right.  I don't really care what you or anyone else thinks about it. I've been lifting for 30 yrs and your opinion won't have the slightest effect on what I can or can't acheive in the gym.  But anyway, thanks.  

Pat

[turnerg31]

Those products aren't really legal to sell. That's the problem, brolio. And not only that, many of them are tainted with scheduled anabolics. See the 6-OXO case for example. You test positive for Dianabol or Trenbolone or Methyltestosterone, will you be cleared if you show your bottle of "DECAVOL" or whatever? You take Gaspari's Novedex XT and you'll test positive for boldenone, a highly illegal steroid.

Aren't legal to sell?

I won't dispute what you are saying but in my case, if I have the product on hand or can proove what I was taking then I won't have an issue. Like you said, sometimes taking these products will cause positive test results.  Unless I happen to take a job over here where my employer states that their staff is not allowed to take these type of products then I won't even waist time worrying about it.  I've been in the game a long time "brolio", and what I got took years of training and hard work.  Hearing from guys like you lets me know that whatever I'm doing is working. Keep up the good work.

Pat

[Van_Bilderass]

Aren't legal to sell?

I won't dispute what you are saying but in my case, if I have the product on hand or can proove what I was taking then I won't have an issue. Like you said, sometimes taking these products will cause positive test results.  Unless I happen to take a job over here where my employer states that their staff is not allowed to take these type of products then I won't even waist time worrying about it.  I've been in the game a long time "brolio", and what I got took years of training and hard work.  Hearing from guys like you lets me know that whatever I'm doing is working. Keep up the good work.

Pat

Alright, whatever you say. But that sounds like an awfully easy way to get out of a positive test, if they don't even investigate further. Might as well do any "real" cycle then and just say you were using this or that supplement which caused a positive. What's to stop you?

Sounds like they don't take positive tests seriously at your companies, unlike these guys, who fired the guy despite him using a "legal" supplement. They don't prohibit supplement use but if you test positive you're fucked.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/blog/2009/07/26/decavol-leads-to-firing-of-guard-at-nuclear-weapons-facility/

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/jul/26/fired-guard-disputes-test/

"We were just told, don't take steroids," he said. "I thought, 'I'm fine, I'm not doing steroids.' … When they told me I tested positive, I was in shock."

[11venthhour]

Naturals don't lose that much muscle when dieting correctly, you just overestimate how much muscle you really have.

agreed! when i dieted many, many, years ago i made the mistake of following a 12 week diet plan underestimating how much drugs play a role in a pro's diet. needless to say it took me a 1.5 years to get things back again.

with that said at your size you do not need to diet, at all! this will greatly effect your ability to gain.

[KevinP85]

If some of you guys think Kyomu's physique can't be achieved naturally, you are a sad bunch of people.

average genetics, hard work, diet, and it's definitely attainable. I also believe Kyomu has been training for years.

[dyslexic]

Why does Chris Faildo suddenly come to mind? 



Oh yeah, he's all natural too.

[KevinP85]

Why does Chris Faildo suddenly come to mind? 



Oh yeah, he's all natural too.

That's a different story, now Kyomu, that can definitely be achieved naturally.

[dyslexic]

 Kyomu, that can definitely be achieved naturally.

I have absolutely no arguement with that. If he were juicing, I would have to say he's "doing it wrong."

[Cleanest Natural]

kyomu is as natural as a cock in a man's anus

[kyomu]

You can't get hard without insulin (of all things!), right Kyomu? 

At least, I havent seen any pure naturals who have  hard physics.

[kyomu]

Why don't we put this "misunderstanding" to a test? What better candidate than yourself since we have all seen so many (too many?) pics and videos already?


Kyomu, get started on 500 mg a week of Sustanon and let's see if your physique changes. We can just call it an experiment, and you still won't be considered a juicer.


Once you come off, we can take a look at how smooth you don't get-- or do get.


Maybe you could throw a little Clen in the mix and use the Palumbo "no carb" diet.

Its good idea to do a experiment.
But, Already I did it in the past.

[kyomu]

If some of you guys think Kyomu's physique can't be achieved naturally, you are a sad bunch of people.

average genetics, hard work, diet, and it's definitely attainable. I also believe Kyomu has been training for years.

That is the factor which separates hardgainer and gainer.

[kyomu]

This guy(I know him very well) is 100% pure natural.
His bodyfat is really low. But he looks kind of soft.