Author Topic: Misunderstanding about natural limit. (Read 26095 times)

dr.chimps · « **Reply #125 on:** August 05, 2009, 07:17:46 AM »

Quote from: Van_Bilderass on August 05, 2009, 05:50:30 AM

A natural can get ripped. Look at Iggy Pop.

LOL. 'Natural' is not a word that springs to mind to describe Iggy. Be like calling Keef 'healthy.'

njflex · « **Reply #126 on:** August 05, 2009, 07:33:43 AM »

Quote from: Schmoe Buster on August 05, 2009, 07:14:50 AM

Tom Platz is a complete tool, he was never off gear while he competed, when he retired well see how he shrunk,except his jaw, into a skinny sack of skin and bones shit, this moron said all he took for the 1980 Olympia was 400mg Deca per week and 30mg Winstrol a day, or some bullshit, almost as stupid as that other moron Robby Robinson and his 1 shot of primobolan to win Mr World bullshit

WELL OBVIOUSLY THEY CAN'T BE COMPLETLY FORTHRIGHT.

kyomu · « **Reply #127 on:** August 05, 2009, 07:56:10 AM »

Quote from: BIG ACH on August 05, 2009, 05:29:25 AM

Kyomu, I disagree 100% with you - I believe its Size thats mostly effected and determined by a person's Natural Limit, and not hardness.

Thats why in natural organizations there is a higher emphasis on hardness and being conditioned as opposed to size.

In comparison to NPC shows where there is more of an emphasis on size as opposed to conditioning.

but, most of natural competitors go with GH which create hardness and pass the doping test.

kyomu · « **Reply #128 on:** August 05, 2009, 07:58:08 AM »

Quote from: Van_Bilderass on August 05, 2009, 05:50:30 AM

A natural can get ripped. Look at Iggy Pop.

Yes. You can get ripped. But not look hard as a rock like Dorian.
Plus, you can be ripped with small size.

njflex · « **Reply #129 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:01:36 AM »

Quote from: kyomu on August 05, 2009, 07:58:08 AM

Yes. You can get ripped. But not look hard as a rock like Dorian.
Plus, you can be ripped with small size.

LIKE U SAID RIPPED IS ONE THING,ROCK HARD AND GRANITE HARDNESS IS DRUG INDUCED ,RELAXED FOR EXAMPLE DORIAN LOOKED FLEXED AND HARD STANDING STILL.

saucetradomous · « **Reply #130 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:21:56 AM »

Quote from: Method101 on August 04, 2009, 03:50:35 AM

His bodyfat is not even under 10% hope this helps, hes soft

I agree.. he's probably around 10% he just holds it all in his legs. I don't see any cuts or striations in his legs. Calves are a weak point but your buddy looks good.

kyomu · « **Reply #131 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:47:34 AM »

Quote from: njflex on August 05, 2009, 08:01:36 AM

LIKE U SAID RIPPED IS ONE THING,ROCK HARD AND GRANITE HARDNESS IS DRUG INDUCED ,RELAXED FOR EXAMPLE DORIAN LOOKED FLEXED AND HARD STANDING STILL.

Thats what i am saying. They are so full and hard.
On the other hand, Natural bber are cut but looks flat and soft.

kyomu · « **Reply #132 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:48:54 AM »

Quote from: saucetradomous on August 05, 2009, 08:21:56 AM

I agree.. he's probably around 10% he just holds it all in his legs. I don't see any cuts or striations in his legs. Calves are a weak point but your buddy looks good.

I see, but how about his upper body? He looks quite lean and SOFT no?

Mars · « **Reply #133 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:50:11 AM »

dorian is not natural

saucetradomous · « **Reply #134 on:** August 05, 2009, 09:02:03 AM »

Quote from: kyomu on August 05, 2009, 08:48:54 AM

I see, but how about his upper body? He looks quite lean and SOFT no?

Yeah but thats because he could still lose a few pounds of fat atleast 10lbs maybe more cause of the legs. That would be sacrificing "size" for hardness so in that regard I agree with Big Ach. I think the best theory here is, it is harder to combine both size & hardness while being natural. -- Your friend is not as lean as you may think he is and that is leading you to believe naturals are not able to achieve such hardness, that's what I think.

kyomu · « **Reply #135 on:** August 05, 2009, 09:15:06 AM »

Quote from: saucetradomous on August 05, 2009, 09:02:03 AM

Yeah but thats because he could still lose a few pounds of fat atleast 10lbs maybe more cause of the legs. That would be sacrificing "size" for hardness so in that regard I agree with Big Ach. I think the best theory here is, it is harder to combine both size & hardness while being natural. -- Your friend is not as lean as you may think he is and that is leading you to believe naturals are not able to achieve such hardness, that's what I think.

Thats good opinion.

#1 Klaus fan · « **Reply #136 on:** August 05, 2009, 09:37:55 AM »

Quote from: Mars on August 05, 2009, 08:50:11 AM

dorian is not natural

You have a misunderstanding about the natural limit.

BIG ACH · « **Reply #137 on:** August 05, 2009, 03:25:13 PM »

Quote from: kyomu on August 05, 2009, 07:56:10 AM

but, most of natural competitors go with GH which create hardness and pass the doping test.

I was talking about naturals who don't use juice or GH. A lot of natural shows will do unit tests and Lie Detector tests, and I know that neither is 100% accurate, and people do go into tested shows using, but that doesn't mean that ALL of them are.

I disagree with your argument.

BIG ACH · « **Reply #138 on:** August 05, 2009, 03:31:04 PM »

I've never used juice or GH in my life, am I soft in this picture?

Mr Nobody · « **Reply #139 on:** August 05, 2009, 03:41:17 PM »

Quote from: BIG ACH on August 05, 2009, 03:31:04 PM

I've never used juice or GH in my life, am I soft in this picture?

Ripped man nice job - reminds me of a praying mantis

BIG ACH · « **Reply #140 on:** August 05, 2009, 03:45:28 PM »

Here it is bigger, am I soft?

BIG ACH · « **Reply #141 on:** August 05, 2009, 03:46:43 PM »

Another...

BIG ACH · « **Reply #142 on:** August 05, 2009, 03:47:52 PM »

Not even full flexing..... Still soft? Last one....

Ursus · « **Reply #143 on:** August 05, 2009, 04:52:07 PM »

You look fantastic.

However, Natties cant getthe hard dryand grainy look juicers can

BIG ACH · « **Reply #144 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:11:54 PM »

Quote from: Mr Nobody on August 05, 2009, 03:41:17 PM

Ripped man nice job - reminds me of a praying mantis

Mr Nobody thank you for your compliment - I do look like some sort of insect , dont I! LOL

[/quote]

Quote from: Ursus on August 05, 2009, 04:52:07 PM

You look fantastic.

However, Natties cant getthe hard dryand grainy look juicers can

Ursus - thank you as well for the props. you are abolutely right I don't have that grainy look - I never have been able to achieve it, no matter what I do.

This picture below is of me at probably the best conditioning of my life and the LIGHTEST I have ever competed, I weighed 157 in that picture, (my norm competition weight is 175 - 180) and I am still not grainy like you are saying.

But that doesn't mean it can't be done, I have seen some legit naturals with a SICK grainy look that put some juicing IFBB pros to shame when it comes to conditioning. Maybe in the future I will be able to achieve it.

I have totally hijacked this thread with my pictures!

kyomu · « **Reply #145 on:** August 06, 2009, 02:30:42 AM »

Quote from: BIG ACH on August 05, 2009, 03:45:28 PM

Here it is bigger, am I soft?

No offence.
You are not a lier. You are natural.

Because you have SOFT shredded body.
You still misunderstand what i am saying.
You can look HARD with juicing without your bodyfat low.

DK II · « **Reply #146 on:** August 06, 2009, 02:35:07 AM »

Quote from: kyomu on August 06, 2009, 02:30:42 AM

No offence.
You are not a lier. You are natural.

Because you have SOFT shredded body.
You still misunderstand what i am saying.
You can look HARD with juicing without your bodyfat low.

lol, first time a guy that admits juice is called a natural. LMAO!!!

grab an umbrella · « **Reply #147 on:** August 06, 2009, 02:35:46 AM »

Quote from: BIG ACH on August 05, 2009, 08:11:54 PM

Mr Nobody thank you for your compliment - I do look like some sort of insect , dont I! LOL

Ursus - thank you as well for the props. you are abolutely right I don't have that grainy look - I never have been able to achieve it, no matter what I do.

This picture below is of me at probably the best conditioning of my life and the LIGHTEST I have ever competed, I weighed 157 in that picture, (my norm competition weight is 175 - 180) and I am still not grainy like you are saying.

But that doesn't mean it can't be done, I have seen some legit naturals with a SICK grainy look that put some juicing IFBB pros to shame when it comes to conditioning. Maybe in the future I will be able to achieve it.

I have totally hijacked this thread with my pictures!

Clearly on GH, just look at the gums....

Had to man, sorry...

BIG ACH · « **Reply #148 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:24:41 AM »

Quote from: kyomu on August 06, 2009, 02:30:42 AM

No offence.
You are not a lier. You are natural.

Because you have SOFT shredded body.
You still misunderstand what i am saying.
You can look HARD with juicing without your bodyfat low.

You are saying that if you juice you can look hard with a HIGH bodyfat?

njflex · « **Reply #149 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:32:52 AM »

Quote from: BIG ACH on August 06, 2009, 08:24:41 AM

You are saying that if you juice you can look hard with a HIGH bodyfat?

just to use yates say as an example ,at 285/300 he looked pretty hard already.probably 8/10 pct at that wght,maybe lower if anybody has any insight on it.