Author Topic: 6 of 10 cars sold in "Cash for Clunkers" is a Toyota,. Honda, or Hyundai  (Read 1422 times)

Soul Crusher

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Obama administration withholds data on program 
 
Aug 4 01:08 PM US/Eastern
By BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE
Associated Press Writer Comments (49)      Share on Facebook         
Outcry Causes Obama Administration to Change Language on ‘Cash for Clunkers’ Website
DeMint: ‘Cash for Clunkers’ is ‘Great Example of Stupidity Coming Out of Washington’


 

  WASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration is refusing to release government records on its "cash-for-clunkers" rebate program that would substantiate—or undercut—White House claims of the program's success, even as the president presses the Senate for a quick vote for $2 billion to boost car sales.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said Sunday the government would release electronic records about the program, and President Barack Obama has pledged greater transparency for his administration. But the Transportation Department, which has collected details about 157,000 rebate requests, won't release sales data that dealers provided showing how much U.S. car manufacturers are benefiting from the $1 billion initially pumped into the program.

The Associated Press has sought release of the data since last week. But the public and Senate Republicans demanding more information will have to wait for details because federal officials running the program don't have time to turn over data delivered by car dealers, said Rae Tyson, spokesman for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

LaHood said in an interview Sunday he would make the electronic records available. "I can't think of any reason why we wouldn't do it," he said.

DOT officials already have received electronic details from car dealers of each trade-in transaction. The agency regularly analyzes the data internally, producing helpful talking points for LaHood, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs and other officials to use when urging more funding.

LaHood, the program's chief salesman, has pitched the rebates as good for America, good for car buyers, good for the environment, good for the economy. But it's difficult to determine whether the administration is overselling the claim without seeing what's being sold, what's being traded in and where the cars are being sold.

LaHood, for example, promotes the fact that the Ford Focus so far is at the top of the list of new cars purchased under the program. But the limited information released so far shows most buyers are not picking Ford, Chrysler or General Motors vehicles, and six of the top 10 vehicles purchased are Honda, Toyota and Hyundai.

LaHood has called the popular rebates to car buyers "the lifeline that will bring back the automobile industry in America." He and other advocates are citing program data to promote passage of another $2 billion for the incentives -- claiming dealers sold cars that are 61 percent more fuel efficient than trade-ins and Ford's Focus is the top seller.

LaHood also said this week that even if buyers aren't choosing cars made by U.S. automobile manufacturers, many of the Honda, Toyota and Hyundai cars sold were made in those companies' American plants.

But there's no way to verify his claims without access to DOT's data.

Senate GOP leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky has argued against quick approval of $2 billion for the program because little is known about the first round of $3,500 and $4,500 rebates.

"We don't have the results of the first $1 billion," McConnell spokesman Don Stewart said. "You don't have them. We don't have them. DOT doesn't have all of it. We'd hate to make a mistake on something like that."

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This is hysterical.  You really cant make this up anymore how dumb this entire Govt is.   

240 is Back

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they should amend it - you have to buy AMERICAN when you get your $4500

Soul Crusher

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they should amend it - you have to buy AMERICAN when you get your $4500

Hey 240 - you ever hear of the Ciener .22 conversion Kit for the AR15?


240 is Back

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Hey 240 - you ever hear of the Ciener .22 conversion Kit for the AR15?

nope

BayGBM

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LaHood, for example, promotes the fact that the Ford Focus so far is at the top of the list of new cars purchased under the program. But the limited information released so far shows most buyers are not picking Ford, Chrysler or General Motors vehicles, and six of the top 10 vehicles purchased are Honda, Toyota and Hyundai.


I thought this was common knowledge.  If you were trading in a clunker today what brand would you buy? ::)

We do not need a congressional investigation or a presidential declaration to tell us that the sky is blue, water is wet, or that people are buying Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai over GM, Chrysler, and Ford products.

they should amend it - you have to buy AMERICAN when you get your $4500

I do not agree with this.  Buying products out of patriotism or sympathy is a fool's errand.  People want the best product (value); when the Big three make the best people will buy them.  You are seriously ill and need medical care: would you go to a demonstrably inferior physician or hospital simply because he/it was American?

Parker

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they should amend it - you have to buy AMERICAN when you get your $4500

Most of their cars nobody wants!!! Unless everybody wants a Corvette Z06, ZR1, Cadillac CTS, CTS-V, XLR, XLR-V. Or a Shelby  KR500. Or A Viper, Challenger.

240 is Back

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Most of their cars nobody wants!!! Unless everybody wants a Corvette Z06, ZR1, Cadillac CTS, CTS-V, XLR, XLR-V. Or a Shelby  KR500. Or A Viper, Challenger.

$4500 for a piece of shite 1989 Dodge Voyager mini-van is a steal.  There should be some pro-USA strings.

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$4500 for a piece of shite 1989 Dodge Voyager mini-van is a steal.  There should be some pro-USA strings.

How about this 240? 

1.  We borrowed billions from China to take over GM and Chrysler
2.  We borrowed billions from China with the stimulus bill
3.  Taxpayers are forced through taxation and inflation to pay for other Americans to go into debt to buy cars and destroy perfectly good cars.
4.  Most of the cars being turned in are american cars while most of the new ones bought are foregin cars. 
5.  The profits of these sales are going to foreign owned companies.
6.  The debt of the sales is going to be paid for by taxpayers for years and generations to come. 


How anyone can not realize what a mess this is is completely beyond me.     
   

Parker

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How about this 240? 

1.  We borrowed billions from China to take over GM and Chrysler
2.  We borrowed billions from China with the stimulus bill
3.  Taxpayers are forced through taxation and inflation to pay for other Americans to go into debt to buy cars and destroy perfectly good cars.
4.  Most of the cars being turned in are american cars while most of the new ones bought are foregin cars. 
5.  The profits of these sales are going to foreign owned companies.
6.  The debt of the sales is going to be paid for by taxpayers for years and generations to come. 


How anyone can not realize what a mess this is is completely beyond me.     
   

Well, the Big three Orchestrated thier downfall by: telling Americans what they should buy, not producing cars that there was need for, not responding quick enough to the Oil crisis in the 70's, which gave the Japanese a leg up on the American car companies, not capitalizing on the Muscle Car phenomenon, and keeping it going, albeit in a diff form, not being tougher with Congress and having tariffs on Japanese cars, like they do with our cars, Not bringing over more Euro developed cars (Opel is GM's Euro arm, and FORD of Europe)--these cars were up to the higher standards of the Euro continent, and could run all day on the autobahn.


Again TYPICL AMERICAN THINKING: Reactionary not preventionary..Prevent the problem before occurs, not respond to the problem once it arises--and when you do respond, the problem is so grave, one can hardly make up the distance.

$4500 for a piece of shite 1989 Dodge Voyager mini-van is a steal.  There should be some pro-USA strings.

Agreed, but you that person probably wants a Porsche

Soul Crusher

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Well, the Big three Orchestrated thier downfall by: telling Americans what they should buy, not producing cars that there was need for, not responding quick enough to the Oil crisis in the 70's, which gave the Japanese a leg up on the American car companies, not capitalizing on the Muscle Car phenomenon, and keeping it going, albeit in a diff form, not being tougher with Congress and having tariffs on Japanese cars, like they do with our cars, Not bringing over more Euro developed cars (Opel is GM's Euro arm, and FORD of Europe)--these cars were up to the higher standards of the Euro continent, and could run all day on the autobahn.


Again TYPICL AMERICAN THINKING: Reactionary not preventionary..Prevent the problem before occurs, not respond to the problem once it arises--and when you do respond, the problem is so grave, one can hardly make up the distance.

Agreed, but you that person probably wants a Porsche


The other issue is quality and dependability. 

When you think of toyota and honda - what comes to mind? 

Parker

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The other issue is quality and dependability. 

When you think of toyota and honda - what comes to mind? 

Exactly, but it has been shown, that the porducts from GM and FORD are now up there, and Jag as well, according to the JD Power initial quality report. It's the public's perception that needs to change. I remember getting a alignment done and I was talking to a guy who said he would never buy another GM product, he had a  Buick crossover vehicle, and he said it was trash, guess what he was driving now...a BMW X5 with Dinan upgrades...it was off the meter...said he is a BMW man now, and has a M5 and his wife has a M3 convertible.
 

Soul Crusher

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Exactly, but it has been shown, that the porducts from GM and FORD are now up there, and Jag as well, according to the JD Power initial quality report. It's the public's perception that needs to change. I remember getting a alignment done and I was talking to a guy who said he would never buy another GM product, he had a  Buick crossover vehicle, and he said it was trash, guess what he was driving now...a BMW X5 with Dinan upgrades...it was off the meter...said he is a BMW man now, and has a M5 and his wife has a M3 convertible.
 

I have a 328i and love it.  For the $$$, I would rather pay a little more for quality than a few g's less for a roll of the dice.   

a_joker10

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The other issue is quality and dependability. 

When you think of toyota and honda - what comes to mind? 

Too bad Ford has been leading the quality index.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/07/ford_tops_quali_2.html
As for Japanese or Korean cars.
It would be only fair that those cars built in US factories be exempt by any proposed legislation.

Also it wasn't the muscle cars that did the big three in. It was the SUV market.
All three focused on the SUV market and forgot about the small car sales.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jan2009/db2009015_732907.htm

If you look at the future market I think many car companies are going to be burnt with hybrids once the tax subsidies are gone.
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2009/mar/16/business/chi-biz-hybrid-sales-march16

Government shouldn't be in the car business.
Z

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Me personally, I am going to buy another car and want a small crossover.  I would like something like the Honda ridgline if it were a bit smaller and am looking at the Escape.   

a_joker10

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Me personally, I am going to buy another car and want a small crossover.  I would like something like the Honda ridgline if it were a bit smaller and am looking at the Escape.   

We almost bought an escape. I really like them.
But the dealer was an a-hole.
We wound up buying a AWD Matrix instead


I find this affects my choice in cars much more than any literature, because I live in a small city and there are only so many places to get warranty work completed.

As for this plan, why didn't they just give a 4500 subsidy on all "fuel efficient"  North American vehicles.

This would have been a lot easier to administer and you don't have the problems of destroying perfectly drivable cars, that poor people could afford.
Z

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As for this plan, why didn't they just give a 4500 subsidy on all "fuel efficient"  North American vehicles.

This would have been a lot easier to administer and you don't have the problems of destroying perfectly drivable cars, that poor people could afford.

This is an excellent idea!

Hereford

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LOL at you tools who say the rebate should only be good on American cars.

Go drive a BMW, then go drive a Chevy and let us know which one you want to buy.


And LOL at those who support tarriffs on foreign cars. Typical union-style thinking... level the playing field by handicapping your competition because it is much easier to do that than raise your own quality and standards.

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LOL at you tools who say the rebate should only be good on American cars.

Go drive a BMW, then go drive a Chevy and let us know which one you want to buy.

if thousands of people suddenly having $4500 cash....

then buying more overseas cars leads to more Gm plants closing and those employees getting unemployment which we're paying...

then yes, i'm okay with controlling it.

If people don't like the terms, don't trade in your clunker.

Hereford

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if thousands of people suddenly having $4500 cash....

then buying more overseas cars leads to more Gm plants closing and those employees getting unemployment which we're paying...

then yes, i'm okay with controlling it.

If people don't like the terms, don't trade in your clunker.

Lame reasoning.

It's this kind of thinking that leads to "GM is too big to fail" and other foolish theories.

24KT

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they should amend it - you have to buy AMERICAN when you get your $4500

There's really no such thing these days, since the so called "foreign" car makers produce their cars right here in North America. Ford & GM aren't the only auto manufacturers that hire and maintain American workers.  :-\
w

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they should amend it - you have to buy AMERICAN when you get your $4500
Why?

What good will a protectionist stance do?

In Germany and several other countries, there's been a similar reform.

And nowhere has there been any limits on what brand the buyer has to stick to.

But in eg Germany, the reform has been a huge success.

Despite not taking on a protectionist agenda.

So why should USA do it?

What's next – Americans are only allowed to buy US cars?

The Soviet Union tried that with their cars. Look where that got them.
As empty as paradise

Soul Crusher

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if thousands of people suddenly having $4500 cash....

then buying more overseas cars leads to more Gm plants closing and those employees getting unemployment which we're paying...

then yes, i'm okay with controlling it.

If people don't like the terms, don't trade in your clunker.

This whole program is a complete joke.