Author Topic: Why Libertarian = Fail  (Read 4595 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2009, 08:59:19 AM »
No it's not.

When you tally state and federal taxes, the US's burden is only 28% of GDP.  The UK's is 37.1, Ireland-37, Sweden- 49.1, France- 44.2, Luxembourg
 35.9 and so on.


Relatively speaking, we have a light tax burden.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2009/04/bartlett-time-to-tea-bag-the-tea-parties.html
 

more BS from you.  You are confusing things intentionally and you know it. 

Take a single guy in NYC who makes 70k and tally up everything he pays in takes and it is probably close to 50% when all is said and done.

George Whorewell

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2009, 09:01:50 AM »
Wasn't this same thread posted multiple times?

It was moronic then and its moronic now. Deck, nice to see you're around again, but please- some new material is definetly in order.

Decker

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2009, 09:03:31 AM »
Wasn't this same thread posted multiple times?

It was moronic then and its moronic now. Deck, nice to see you're around again, but please- some new material is definetly in order.
This board is monopolized by fact deficient and morally retarded libertarians.

The fight goes.

And thank you.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2009, 09:08:03 AM »
This board is monopolized by fact deficient and morally retarded libertarians.

The fight goes.

And thank you.

Morally retarded????

Why?  Because I dont want to fund every pet project and program you think is important?

Decker

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2009, 09:23:02 AM »
Morally retarded????

Why?  Because I dont want to fund every pet project and program you think is important?
Arguing for wise spending and limited taxation is a good thing.

Arguing that all taxation is confiscatory and that all gov. spending is wasteful is counterproductive and has no foothold in the real world.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2009, 09:24:35 AM »
Arguing for wise spending and limited taxation is a good thing.

Arguing that all taxation is confiscatory and that all gov. spending is wasteful is counterproductive and has no foothold in the real world.

I never said there should be no taxes.  However, what is being urged now is a massive increase in taxes, either directly, indirectly, or through inflation. 

You and I disagree whether that is a good thing. 

grab an umbrella

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2009, 11:20:29 AM »
No it's not.

When you tally state and federal taxes, the US's burden is only 28% of GDP.  The UK's is 37.1, Ireland-37, Sweden- 49.1, France- 44.2, Luxembourg
 35.9 and so on.


Relatively speaking, we have a light tax burden.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2009/04/bartlett-time-to-tea-bag-the-tea-parties.html
 

Do you enjoy using miscalculated numbers?  GDP?  Really, that ever knowing, always wonderful number?  If the government decides to spend money it doesn't have, guess what happens?  The GDP goes up.  Also GDP includes salaries of employees, plus their expenditures.  That means if a married couple brings in 150,000 dollars a year, and spends 75,000, their measure is 225,000.  I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out why that isn't all that accurate.

Going back to the above point about the government, our government spends so much more than other governments, artificially causing a spike in the GDP.  So when you say that we as Americans spend a lower percentage of our GDP, I think that is a misguided statement.

Hope this helps

Soul Crusher

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2009, 11:29:55 AM »
Do you enjoy using miscalculated numbers?  GDP?  Really, that ever knowing, always wonderful number?  If the government decides to spend money it doesn't have, guess what happens?  The GDP goes up.  Also GDP includes salaries of employees, plus their expenditures.  That means if a married couple brings in 150,000 dollars a year, and spends 75,000, their measure is 225,000.  I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out why that isn't all that accurate.

Going back to the above point about the government, our government spends so much more than other governments, artificially causing a spike in the GDP.  So when you say that we as Americans spend a lower percentage of our GDP, I think that is a misguided statement.

Hope this helps

not only that, but Decker misdled with his post since the number now of GDP spending is almost what it was during WW2.

Never confuse a lib with the facts right????

shootfighter1

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2009, 12:40:14 PM »
Decker, when you add federal + state + local + RITA + property taxes.  Most people are between 40-50% taxation.  That is not light taxation.  I oppose almost anything that raises taxes more than they are now.  Spending needs to be cut.

Decker

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2009, 07:47:32 AM »
Do you enjoy using miscalculated numbers?  GDP?  Really, that ever knowing, always wonderful number?  If the government decides to spend money it doesn't have, guess what happens?  The GDP goes up.  Also GDP includes salaries of employees, plus their expenditures.  That means if a married couple brings in 150,000 dollars a year, and spends 75,000, their measure is 225,000.  I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out why that isn't all that accurate.

Going back to the above point about the government, our government spends so much more than other governments, artificially causing a spike in the GDP.  So when you say that we as Americans spend a lower percentage of our GDP, I think that is a misguided statement.

Hope this helps
What are you trying to say?  You're not helping.

GDP is reliable index for measuring tax burdens. 

Leveraged spending happens all the time--loans for homes, wars etc.  It's big piece of how growth happens.  You should be more concerned what that spending comprises instead the fact that it happens.

I posted a national comparison on individual tax burdens somewhere on this godforsaken site.

We'll use this instead:
Believe it or not, Americans enjoy some of the lowest income tax rates in the world. Today of all days, it might not seem so.

When you look at the overall tax burden, the U.S. is quite low," said Eric Toder, a senior fellow at the Urban Institute in Washington, D.C., and former director of the office of research for the Internal Revenue Service.

...The OECD collects data on 30 member countries and annually calculates what it calls the tax "wedge" for each -- the combined effects of personal income tax, employee and employer social security contributions, payroll taxes and cash benefits.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P148855.asp

Unless you are paying way over 21% of your income in sales tax, you are not paying well over 50% of your annual earnings in taxes.





Decker

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2009, 07:48:19 AM »
not only that, but Decker misdled with his post since the number now of GDP spending is almost what it was during WW2.

Never confuse a lib with the facts right????
You make as much sense as grab an umbrella.

Decker

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2009, 07:49:19 AM »
Decker, when you add federal + state + local + RITA + property taxes.  Most people are between 40-50% taxation.  That is not light taxation.  I oppose almost anything that raises taxes more than they are now.  Spending needs to be cut.
Most people do not pay between 40-50% of their earnings in taxes.  They don't.  The number is closer to 30%.

shootfighter1

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2009, 08:00:54 AM »
If you make over $80,000/yr and own a home, your total tax burden is around 40% (thats including state, local, rita, medicare and SS).  Thats a lot of taxes for a middle class person.  Sales tax differs by state but through that in there as well...usually around 8%.
Point being is the middle class and upper middle class already pay a lot of taxes.  IMO, our governments have become too comfortable with excessive spending and budgets.

In Rome, they took 1/10th of your earnings. 

Hedgehog

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2009, 08:18:57 AM »
If you make over $80,000/yr and own a home, your total tax burden is around 40% (thats including state, local, rita, medicare and SS).  Thats a lot of taxes for a middle class person.  Sales tax differs by state but through that in there as well...usually around 8%.
Point being is the middle class and upper middle class already pay a lot of taxes.  IMO, our governments have become too comfortable with excessive spending and budgets.

In Rome, they took 1/10th of your earnings. 

What happened to Rome?

Rome had huge economic problems due to not being able to finance eg the military.

As for the government, it seems like Obama lacks the political balls or whatever to cut down on some of the biggest spending posts.

The Military has to be slimmed down severly.

Trying to do something about the ailing health care costs is obviously a good deed.

A lot of people seems to forget that a sick nation will be much less effective than one that is well.

But the execution of the health care reform hasn't impressed me so far.

Over here, we will get swine flu vaccine for the whole population this fall.

Pandemias are just one obvious reason for universal health care.

IMO, if and when the swine flu hits with full force you're bound to see an increased support for SOME TYPE of health care reform.
As empty as paradise

Decker

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2009, 08:27:55 AM »
If you make over $80,000/yr and own a home, your total tax burden is around 40% (thats including state, local, rita, medicare and SS).  Thats a lot of taxes for a middle class person.  Sales tax differs by state but through that in there as well...usually around 8%.
Point being is the middle class and upper middle class already pay a lot of taxes.  IMO, our governments have become too comfortable with excessive spending and budgets.

In Rome, they took 1/10th of your earnings. 
First we'll look at state income tax rates.  The range from 0-9%, some states have graded schedules and some do not.  The average state income tax is about 6-7%.  State and local taxes (including property tax) are deductible.  Sales tax run btn 0-7% with the average being 4-5%.  State sales tax can also be deductible but not in the same way state and local taxes are.

Every study I have ever seen about individual total tax burden comes up with 30% or less as the average.

I agree with you on the spending part.  It seems that only a national catastrophe would prioritize spending...at least it used to.

grab an umbrella

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2009, 02:26:16 PM »
First we'll look at state income tax rates.  The range from 0-9%, some states have graded schedules and some do not.  The average state income tax is about 6-7%.  State and local taxes (including property tax) are deductible.  Sales tax run btn 0-7% with the average being 4-5%.  State sales tax can also be deductible but not in the same way state and local taxes are.

Every study I have ever seen about individual total tax burden comes up with 30% or less as the average.

I agree with you on the spending part.  It seems that only a national catastrophe would prioritize spending...at least it used to.

Top tax bracket-35%
Georgia State Tax(where I live)6%
Fulton County Sales tax(where I live)8-9%(depends on if you're in atlanta)
Property Tax-this one gets tricky
25 dollars for every 1000 dollars of assessed property value, where property value is hedl at 50% percent of market value.

Other taxes
Excise tax(on smokes)Federal-$1.01/pack
Excise tax(on smokes)State-.37$

Beer tax-$1.01/gallon
Wine tax-$1.51/gallon
Liquor tax-$3.79(didn't state quantity)

Capital Gains tax-15%

I'm sure there are tons of other taxes I'm forgetting, but it's easy to see how quickly this call all add up.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2009, 02:28:32 PM »
Top tax bracket-35%
Georgia State Tax(where I live)6%
Fulton County Sales tax(where I live)8-9%(depends on if you're in atlanta)
Property Tax-this one gets tricky
25 dollars for every 1000 dollars of assessed property value, where property value is hedl at 50% percent of market value.

Other taxes
Excise tax(on smokes)Federal-$1.01/pack
Excise tax(on smokes)State-.37$

Beer tax-$1.01/gallon
Wine tax-$1.51/gallon
Liquor tax-$3.79(didn't state quantity)

Capital Gains tax-15%

I'm sure there are tons of other taxes I'm forgetting, but it's easy to see how quickly this call all add up.


Gasoline Tax
Cell Phone Tax
Electric Bill Tax

Decker

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2009, 04:49:17 AM »
Top tax bracket-35%
Georgia State Tax(where I live)6%
Fulton County Sales tax(where I live)8-9%(depends on if you're in atlanta)
Property Tax-this one gets tricky
25 dollars for every 1000 dollars of assessed property value, where property value is hedl at 50% percent of market value.

Other taxes
Excise tax(on smokes)Federal-$1.01/pack
Excise tax(on smokes)State-.37$

Beer tax-$1.01/gallon
Wine tax-$1.51/gallon
Liquor tax-$3.79(didn't state quantity)

Capital Gains tax-15%

I'm sure there are tons of other taxes I'm forgetting, but it's easy to see how quickly this call all add up.

Nobody pays an income tax of 35%.  There is something called an effective tax rate.

http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Effective+tax+rate

Federal (and some state) income tax is graded.  It has deductions and exemptions.  Property taxes are deductible.

The total tax burden/effective tax rate for the rich is 30.9%.

For everyone else, it's 29.4%.
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2009.pdf

Jeez, we already have a flat tax system.

MB_722

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Re: Why Libertarian = Fail
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2009, 10:22:34 AM »
Sanford and Son had a great episode last night.

watch 4:27 and why Grady justifies cashing in extra social security chacks that were sent to him by accident.



 ;D ;D