Author Topic: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says  (Read 7488 times)

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« on: August 05, 2009, 10:08:43 PM »
Wow, you mean can't get people to do stuff that disgusts and repulses them?  Who da thunk it? 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/05/gay.to.straight/index.html

(CNN) -- The American Psychological Association concluded Wednesday that there is little evidence that efforts to change a person's sexual orientation from gay or lesbian to heterosexual are effective.


The report looks at 87 studies conducted between 1960 and 2007.

In addition, the 138-page report -- covering 87 peer-reviewed studies -- said that such efforts may cause harm.

"Contrary to claims of sexual orientation change advocates and practitioners, there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation," said Judith M. Glassgold, chairwoman of the task force that presented the report at the group's annual meeting in Toronto, Canada. The Washington-based association represents more than 150,000 members.

"At most, certain studies suggested that some individuals learned how to ignore or not act on their homosexual attractions. Yet, these studies did not indicate for whom this was possible, how long it lasted or its long-term mental health effects. Also, this result was much less likely to be true for people who started out only attracted to people of the same sex."

In response, the group's governing Council of Representatives passed a resolution Wednesday urging mental health professionals not to recommend to their clients that they can change their sexual orientation through therapy or any other methods.

The group's Task Force on Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation reached its conclusion after its review of 87 studies conducted between 1960 and 2007 and finding "serious methodological problems" in the vast majority of them.

Those few studies that did have "high-quality" evidence "show that enduring change to an individual's sexual orientation is uncommon," it said.


In addition, the report cited evidence that efforts to switch a person's sexual orientation through aversive treatments might cause harm, including loss of sexual feeling, suicidality, depression and anxiety.

Many who tried to change and failed "described their experiences as a significant cause of emotional and spiritual distress and negative self-image," it said.

The six-member task force was appointed two years ago to address concerns about "efforts to promote the notion that sexual orientation can be changed through psychotherapy or approaches that mischaracterize homosexuality as a mental disorder."

The American Psychological Association removed homosexuality from its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in 1975.

The task force noted that some people attempt to change their sexual orientation because it conflicts with their religious beliefs, and recommended that their mental health care providers help them "explore possible life paths that address the reality of their sexual orientation, reduce the stigma associated with homosexuality, respect the client's religious beliefs, and consider possibilities for a religiously and spiritually meaningful and rewarding life."

"In other words," said Glassgold, "we recommend that psychologists be completely honest about the likelihood of sexual orientation change, and that they help clients explore their assumptions and goals with respect to both religion and sexuality."

Alan Chambers, president of Exodus International, a network of more than 250 ministries that he said "reach out to men and women and families that are affected by what we call 'unwanted same-sex attraction' " disagrees.

He offered himself as proof that such efforts can work. "The fact is that there are tens of thousands of men and women just like me who once identified as gay," Chambers said in a telephone interview. "For me and for these people, the truth is change is possible."

Chambers said his transformation from gay man began more than 18 years ago, when he attended a support group at the organization he now leads. Chambers, who said he married a woman nearly 12 years ago, has written a book, "Leaving Homosexuality," which was published last month.

"You can't refute a personal story," he said, adding that about a third of those who try to switch their sexual orientation through the group's ministries wind up doing so.

"We're not talking a light switch that you turn on and off, we're talking about very deep and complex issues that, I think, take years to resolve."

Though all mainstream health and mental health organizations concluded years ago that homosexuality is not a mental disorder, the American Psychological Association formed the task force to work on the report two years ago after noting a resurgence of groups that identified homosexuality as a defect or spiritual or moral failing

grab an umbrella

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2034
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2009, 11:01:24 PM »
Yeah, I think the same can be said about criminals.

24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24454
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 12:06:24 AM »
I betcha Ted Haggard's wife is not quite sure what to think at this point.  ;D
w

Colossus_500

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3993
  • Psalm 139
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 01:58:11 PM »
Most (if not all) of these reports make the erroneous assumption that this behavior is normal.  As if murder, porn addiction, or thievery are normal forms of behavior

George Whorewell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7362
  • TND
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 03:17:38 PM »
This just in- Dogs can't breathe under water and eating raw chicken causes food poisoning in humans.

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 04:03:49 PM »
Most (if not all) of these reports make the erroneous assumption that this behavior is normal.  As if murder, porn addiction, or thievery are normal forms of behavior

So?  Was does porn addiction, thievery or murder have to do with homosexuality?

This report is based on a series of studies that show trying to change gays to straight doesn't work.  It's not about murder, porn addiction, or thievery.

George Whorewell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7362
  • TND
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2009, 04:10:11 PM »
People are born gay or are forced into being gay because they're in prison. Nuff said.

I dont think anyone chooses to be abnormal-- And by abnormal I mean not in line with what our species is meant to be and out of sync with what most human beings have hardwired into their biology.

Nothing wrong with it and its uncurable anyway.

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 04:15:44 PM »
So?  Was does porn addiction, thievery or murder have to do with homosexuality?

This report is based on a series of studies that show trying to change gays to straight doesn't work.  It's not about murder, porn addiction, or thievery.
actually it does as you know these things all have a genetic predisposition as does homosexuality but b/c society deems these things bad you are supposed to suppress them. In fact not but a few decades ago homosexuality was considered a mental disorder its generally b/c of the acceptance of society that they now say let them be gay.

Hereford

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4028
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2009, 06:12:19 PM »
actually it does as you know these things all have a genetic predisposition as does homosexuality but b/c society deems these things bad you are supposed to suppress them. In fact not but a few decades ago homosexuality was considered a mental disorder its generally b/c of the acceptance of society that they now say let them be gay.

Yep.

gayness, like a lot of things, is now OK because the pushers got enough people to accept it.

pedophilia is next on the liberal social agenda...

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2009, 06:16:32 PM »
Yep.

gayness, like a lot of things, is now OK because the pushers got enough people to accept it.

pedophilia is next on the liberal social agenda...

what does pedophilia have to do with being gay

Al Doggity

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7286
  • Old School Gemini
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2009, 06:17:39 PM »
actually it does as you know these things all have a genetic predisposition as does homosexuality but b/c society deems these things bad you are supposed to suppress them. In fact not but a few decades ago homosexuality was considered a mental disorder its generally b/c of the acceptance of society that they now say let them be gay.

Theft and murder are bad because you are harming people when you commit them, not because society arbitrarily deems them bad.

Homosexuality doesn't cause anyone harm who isn't involved in that relationshipl.

Hereford

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4028
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2009, 06:23:44 PM »
what does pedophilia have to do with being gay

It's a social and behavioral deviation. A big reason the liberals are behind (heh) the gay movement is because if they can make it ok to do things that people have held to be deviant they can create precedence to do just about anything.

The left NEEDS movements like this to promote the continued moral decay of society so that it can push its' other agendas.

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2009, 06:25:21 PM »
Theft and murder are bad because you are harming people when you commit them, not because society arbitrarily deems them bad.

Homosexuality doesn't cause anyone harm who isn't involved in that relationshipl.
LOL doggity harming ppl is bad b/c society says its bad...LOL its always amazing to me how engrained ppl are in there way of thinking you miss the forest for the trees brother.

If we lived in small tribes then pillaging and plundering another tribe would be considered good by our tribe(society)

I see your point about the harm it does but lets not pretend that one issue is ok and one issue is not doesnt have anything to do with society...

Al Doggity

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7286
  • Old School Gemini
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2009, 06:39:45 PM »
LOL doggity harming ppl is bad b/c society says its bad...LOL its always amazing to me how engrained ppl are in there way of thinking you miss the forest for the trees brother.

If we lived in small tribes then pillaging and plundering another tribe would be considered good by our tribe(society)


Yes, but if we did the same thing to our own tribes, it would still be considered harm. No matter how you try to frame the issue, it non-debatable.

Quote
I see your point about the harm it does but lets not pretend that one issue is ok and one issue is not doesnt have anything to do with society...

Where is any pretending going on? If you kill someone, they die. If  someone is involved in a homosexual relationship, no one outside of that relationship is effected.


tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2009, 06:48:14 PM »
Yes, but if we did the same thing to our own tribes, it would still be considered harm. No matter how you try to frame the issue, it non-debatable.

Where is any pretending going on? If you kill someone, they die. If  someone is involved in a homosexual relationship, no one outside of that relationship is effected.
LOL again your missing the forest for the trees bro...if the only reason murder and theft are bad is b/c they cause harm it would be universal but its not again if we lived in tribes it would be ok so its not that it simply causes harm its b/c society says you cant harm these specific ppl in our group...ITS SOCIETY that deems it wrong not the fact you are causing harm. get it?

I dont even know what your talking about in the second comment Im not argueing that homosexuality harms ppl. I can see how herefords points on how it will lead to other actions by society could lead to harm but homosexuality itself doesnt.

Al Doggity

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7286
  • Old School Gemini
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2009, 06:59:32 PM »
LOL again your missing the forest for the trees bro...if the only reason murder and theft are b/c the cause harm it would be universal but its not again if we lived in tribes it would be ok so its not that it simply causes harm its b/c society says you cant harm these specific ppl in our group...ITS SOCIETY that deems it wrong not the fact you are causing harm. get it?
Quote

Even if we lived in tribes, we would still recognize that killing a member of another tribe would cause that tribe harm and that it was wrong.

Quote
I dont even know what your talking about in the second comment Im not argueing that homosexuality harms ppl. I can see how herefords points on how it will lead to other actions by society could lead to harm but homosexuality itself doesnt.

You said "let's not pretend one issue is okay while one issue is not". The difference between the two is perfectly clear.

24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24454
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2009, 07:08:13 PM »
It's a social and behavioral deviation. A big reason the liberals are behind (heh) the gay movement is because if they can make it ok to do things that people have held to be deviant they can create precedence to do just about anything.

The left NEEDS movements like this to promote the continued moral decay of society so that it can push its' other agendas.

Judging from all the guys caught trying to seduce underage pages, getting massages, or having wide stances in bathroom stalls, ...I think it's the RIGHT that NEEDS the gay movement more than anyone. It allows them to indulge themselves physically, ...while spewing the kind of vile hatred, intolerance, and hypocrisy they and their followers are so famous for.
w

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2009, 07:14:25 PM »
^^
right but it would still be ok im not argueing that murder and theft dont cause harm only that they arent ok b/c society says so...trust AL you are wrong on this...calm down and think about it and read my statments...society comes first in this logical equation

its not b/c it causes harm that its not accepted(wrong was a bad term) if it was then society would not accept anything that causes harm...but we do dont we? Logically if something is not accepted b/c it causes harm then all things that cause harm are not accepted.

slaves where ok with society even though it caused harm to ppl it was only when societies view of slaves changed that they decided to stop causing harm. Its not b/c it causes harm its b/c society deems it acceptable or not acceptable.


Al Doggity

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7286
  • Old School Gemini
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2009, 08:34:26 PM »
^^
right but it would still be ok im not argueing that murder and theft dont cause harm only that they arent ok b/c society says so...trust AL you are wrong on this...calm down and think about it and read my statments...society comes first in this logical equation
 

You keep specifically using a murder of another tribe as an example because you know it's a weak argument. Of course, people would care less if someone from another tribe was murdered. They might even be happy about it if it somehow benefited them. However, if a member of their own tribe killed another tribe member, it would, without exception, be considered wrong. If a member of another tribe killed someone within their own tribe, it would be considered an affront and wrong. Likewise, if someone was involved in a murder of someone from another tribe, the murderer would attempt to conceal it or expect retaliation. Whether or not they felt bad about it, they would know that associates of the victim would respond in a similar way, and to some extent, be justified. There would be no question that someone was wronged.

Quote
its not b/c it causes harm that its not accepted(wrong was a bad term) if it was then society would not accept anything that causes harm...but we do dont we? Logically if something is not accepted b/c it causes harm then all things that cause harm are not accepted.

Not really, but what harmful actions can a person perform that are accepted by society?


Quote
slaves where ok with society even though it caused harm to ppl it was only when societies view of slaves changed that they decided to stop causing harm. Its not b/c it causes harm its b/c society deems it acceptable or not acceptable.


This whole statement is a little wrong, but I'll take it at face value for now. When societies view of slaves changed, why did slavery fall out of favor? Answer: Because the treatment of slaves was considered unfair, i.e. harmful.

This is slowly veering away from the topic, though.

You compared a genetic predisposition for homosexuality to a genetic predisposition for murder. Murder has an definitive negative impact on others who do not wish to be impacted. That is why society views it as wrong. 

George Whorewell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7362
  • TND
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2009, 02:58:17 AM »
Comparing murder to being a queer is like comparing apples to bowling balls. I would think sexuality is more like eye color or facial structure- Hereditary and unchangable.

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2009, 06:15:54 AM »
You keep specifically using a murder of another tribe as an example because you know it's a weak argument. Of course, people would care less if someone from another tribe was murdered. They might even be happy about it if it somehow benefited them. However, if a member of their own tribe killed another tribe member, it would, without exception, be considered wrong. If a member of another tribe killed someone within their own tribe, it would be considered an affront and wrong. Likewise, if someone was involved in a murder of someone from another tribe, the murderer would attempt to conceal it or expect retaliation. Whether or not they felt bad about it, they would know that associates of the victim would respond in a similar way, and to some extent, be justified. There would be no question that someone was wronged.

Not really, but what harmful actions can a person perform that are accepted by society?

This whole statement is a little wrong, but I'll take it at face value for now. When societies view of slaves changed, why did slavery fall out of favor? Answer: Because the treatment of slaves was considered unfair, i.e. harmful.

This is slowly veering away from the topic, though.

You compared a genetic predisposition for homosexuality to a genetic predisposition for murder. Murder has an definitive negative impact on others who do not wish to be impacted. That is why society views it as wrong. 
FACE PALM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG slavery caused harm before society changed its view on it didnt it? nobody got hurt during slavery before they changed their minds? It was societies view that changed not the fact it caused harm that changed. Yes they changed their view b/c it caused harm but thats not why it was accepted or not accepted it was accepted b/c society deemed it ok and then deemed it not ok if it was simply b/c it caused harm it would have NEVER BEEN OK...

LOL go back and read Al youre trying to argue a point i never made...Oz asked what murder and theft have to do in a conversation about homosexuality. They all have a genetic predisposition to them I never said homosexuality was bad in this thread pls find it. Simply pointed out that they all had a genetic predisposition to them and it was society that deemed one ok and the other not ok...

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2009, 06:19:02 AM »
Comparing murder to being a queer is like comparing apples to bowling balls. I would think sexuality is more like eye color or facial structure- Hereditary and unchangable.
hmmm not at all, see it is expressed in the form of a behavior and we have control over what we do. Eye color or facial structure is completely out of our hands while we may be more attracted to one over another it is still a choice to indulge that desire.

Al Doggity

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7286
  • Old School Gemini
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2009, 09:31:31 AM »
FACE PALM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG slavery caused harm before society changed its view on it didnt it? nobody got hurt during slavery before they changed their minds? It was societies view that changed not the fact it caused harm that changed. Yes they changed their view b/c it caused harm but thats not why it was accepted or not accepted it was accepted b/c society deemed it ok and then deemed it not ok if it was simply b/c it caused harm it would have NEVER BEEN OK...

LOL go back and read Al youre trying to argue a point i never made...Oz asked what murder and theft have to do in a conversation about homosexuality. They all have a genetic predisposition to them I never said homosexuality was bad in this thread pls find it. Simply pointed out that they all had a genetic predisposition to them and it was society that deemed one ok and the other not ok...

I think you are misunderstanding my argument. I'm not saying that throughout the course of history, society hasn't changed what it finds acceptable. I'm saying that using murder and theft as examples of this is a poor argument. You made the statement that murder and homosexuality were comparable, and both were seen as bad because society said so. Not true. Murder and theft are undeniably, indisputably harmful, both to others and society as a whole. There's no getting around that. If someone has a homosexual relationship, it has no effect on someone outside of that relationship. Slavery and the way some parts of society feel about homosexuals are perfect examples of arbitrarily applying a false morality to behavior one doesn't agree with. Murder and theft are  poor examples of that.  If you were determined to make a genetic predisposition comparison, you might give overeating or being a neat freak a try, but when you use murder and compare how the two behaviors are viewed by society, you are attaching a morality to it, whether you admit it or not. The reasons murder and theft aren't accepted by society are very clear.



tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2009, 09:59:49 AM »
I think you are misunderstanding my argument. I'm not saying that throughout the course of history, society hasn't changed what it finds acceptable. I'm saying that using murder and theft as examples of this is a poor argument. You made the statement that murder and homosexuality were comparable, and both were seen as bad because society said so. Not true. Murder and theft are undeniably, indisputably harmful, both to others and society as a whole. There's no getting around that. If someone has a homosexual relationship, it has no effect on someone outside of that relationship. Slavery and the way some parts of society feel about homosexuals are perfect examples of arbitrarily applying a false morality to behavior one doesn't agree with. Murder and theft are  poor examples of that.  If you were determined to make a genetic predisposition comparison, you might give overeating or being a neat freak a try, but when you use murder and compare how the two behaviors are viewed by society, you are attaching a morality to it, whether you admit it or not. The reasons murder and theft aren't accepted by society are very clear.
I made a statement that they are comparable b/c of their genetic predisposition and yes we do harm as a society that is acceptable. Death penalty ring a bell? wait you will say its in response to something but its still harm and its accepted by society...I understand your point im not making a moral equivilancy of homosexuality to murder which is i believe what you feel im doing. Simply stating they both do share a genetic component. I didnt comment on WHY society accepts one or the other you jumped to that only that society accepts one and not the other.

Now for the love of shit lets drop it

Al Doggity

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7286
  • Old School Gemini
Re: Programs to change gays to straights don't work, report says
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2009, 10:57:47 AM »
I made a statement that they are comparable b/c of their genetic predisposition and yes we do harm as a society that is acceptable. Death penalty ring a bell? wait you will say its in response to something but its still harm and its accepted by society...I understand your point im not making a moral equivilancy of homosexuality to murder which is i believe what you feel im doing. Simply stating they both do share a genetic component. I didnt comment on WHY society accepts one or the other you jumped to that only that society accepts one and not the other.

Now for the love of shit lets drop it

Death penalty is not accepted by society as a whole. Many people consider it immoral and barbaric. And as much as you may attempt to gloss over it, the fact that the death penalty is a response to a crime iIS significant. That's not just a minor detail.It's a penalty for criminal actions.

If you want to drop it, you don't have to respond, but the highlighted text is completely disingenuous. It's like if I were to say, "Yeah, George Bush and Hitler had a lot of things in common. They both breathed oxygen and they both had e's in their names."  Or even, "Mothers and Pedophiles are similar in that they both love children." The comparison itself is loaded, no matter how abstractedly you try to frame it. And it's simply a poor comparison, the reasons for which I"ve already stated multiple times.