Author Topic: 33336 FAILS to comprehend again- Ezekiel Emanuel SHOCKED at Death Panel LIES!!!!  (Read 1923 times)

The True Adonis

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http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1915835,00.html

Ezekiel Emanuel, Obama's 'Deadly Doctor,' Strikes Back
By MICHAEL SCHERER / WASHINGTON Wednesday, Aug. 12, 2009




Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the medical ethicist and oncologist who advises President Obama, does not own a television, and if you catch him in a typically energized moment, when his mind speeds even faster than his mouth, he is likely to blurt out something like, "I hate the Internet." So it took him several days in late July to discover he had been singled out by opponents of health-care reform as a "deadly doctor," who, according to an opinion column in the New York Post, wanted to limit medical care for "a grandmother with Parkinson's or a child with cerebral palsy."


"I couldn't believe this was happening to me," says Emanuel, who in addition to spending his career opposing euthanasia and working to increase the quality of care for dying patients is the brother of White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel. "It is incredible how much one's reputation can be besmirched and taken out of context."


It would only get worse. Within days, the Post article, with selective and misleading quotes from Emanuel's 200 or so published academic papers, went viral. Minnesota Representative Michelle Bachmann, a fierce opponent of Obama's reform plans, read large portions of it on the House floor. "Watch out if you are disabled!" she warned. Days later, in an online posting, former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin attacked Emanuel's "Orwellian thinking," which she suggested would lead to a "downright evil" system that would employ a "death panel" to decide who gets lifesaving health care. By Aug. 10, hysteria had begun to take over in places. Mike Sola, whose son has cerebral palsy, turned up at a Michigan town-hall meeting to shout out concerns about what he regarded as Obama and Emanuel's plans to deny treatment to their family. Later, in an interview on Fox News, Sola held up the Post article. "Every American needs to read this," he declared.
(Read "What Health-Care Reform Really Means.")
By this point, Emanuel, who has a sister who suffers from cerebral palsy, had arrived in northern Italy, where he planned to spend a week on vacation, hiking in the Dolomites. Instead, he found himself calling the White House, offering to book a plane home to defend his name. "As an academic, what do you have? You have the quality of your work and the integrity with which you do it," he said by phone from the Italian Alps. "If it requires canceling a week's long vacation, what's the big deal?"

The attacks on Emanuel are a reminder that there is a narrow slice of Americans who not only don't trust government, but also have come to regard it as a dark conspirator in their lives. This peculiar brand of distrust helps create the conditions for fast-moving fear-mongering, especially on complex and emotionally charged topics like the life and death of the elderly and infirm. Prairie fires of that kind are hard to douse when the Administration's own plan for health care remains vague, weeks away from being ready for a public rollout. The health-care bill that recently passed the House does not contain, as some have suggested, any provisions that would deny treatment to the elderly, infirm or disabled like Sola's son. One provision allows doctors to be reimbursed for voluntary discussions of so-called living wills with patients, but does not in any way threaten to deny treatment to dying patients against their will. The legislation anticipates saving hundreds of billions of dollars by reforming the health-care system itself, a process that would try to increase the efficiency of medical care by better connecting payments to health outcomes and discouraging doctors from unnecessary tests and procedures. The Obama Administration hopes that many of these reforms will be made in the coming years by independent panels of scientists, who will be appointed by the President and overseen by Congress.

This is where the criticism of Emanuel enters the picture, since he is just the sort of scientist who might be appointed to one of those panels. For decades, Emanuel has studied the ethics of medical care, especially in situations where a scarcity of resources requires hard decisions to be made. His work sometimes deals with the hardest possible decisions, like how to choose who gets a single kidney if there are three patients in need, or the reasons that doctors order tests with little medical value. Emanuel's reputation ranks him among the top members of his field. He is published often in the best journals; he has been given multiple awards for work to improve end-of-life care. At the White House, he has taken a free-floating role at the Office of Management and Budget, advising on a wide range of health issues.

But in a country where trust is in short supply, Emanuel has become a proxy for all the worst fears of government efforts to rein in costs by denying care. "The fundamental danger is that the American people are being asked to delegate all these life-influencing decisions," explains Betsy McCaughey, the conservative scholar who wrote the New York Post attack on Emanuel. "There is a lack of transparency here."

In her Post article, McCaughey paints the worst possible image of Emanuel, quoting him, for instance, endorsing age discrimination for health-care distribution, without mentioning that he was only addressing extreme cases like organ donation, where there is an absolute scarcity of resources. She quotes him discussing the denial of care for people with dementia without revealing that Emanuel only mentioned dementia in a discussion of theoretical approaches, not an endorsement of a particular policy. She notes that he has criticized medical culture for trying to do everything for a patient, "regardless of the cost or effects on others," without making clear that he was not speaking of lifesaving care but of treatments with little demonstrated value. "No one who has read what I have done for 25 years would come to the conclusions that have been put out there," says Emanuel. "My quotes were just being taken out of context."

For Emanuel, the entire experience has been a painful education in the sometimes brutal ways of politics, something his brother has long endured and dolled out. "I guess I have a better appreciation for what Rahm had to go through for years and years," Emanuel says. But that appreciation does not solve the question raised by the controversy. There is universal understanding that the nation's fiscal course is doomed without major changes to health care, but whom will the American people trust to carry it out?

Emanuel, for his part, plans to continue his work, which is focused on finding the most equitable and ethical way for this reform to be carried out, even if he has opted against returning from the Italian Alps. "I am an Emanuel," he says. "We are pretty thick-skinned. I am not going to change my colors. I am not going to crawl under a rock."

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333386,

your response?

big L dawg

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333386,

your response?

He's busy.....He owns his own business you know.
DAWG

Hugo Chavez

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He's busy.....He owns his own business you know.
He had an accident chick fighting.

Soul Crusher

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333386,

your response?

1.  Did Emanuel disclaim or disown and of the quotes attributed to him and his writings?    -    No. 

2.  Which quotes "are taken out context"????

Soul Crusher

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He had an accident chick fighting.

Fool - I already told you I did BJJ, TMA, etc for many years. 

By the - way - I inclined 315 for 7 last night no spot (I dont do sauce either). 

BM OUT

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333386,

your response?

His initial quotes still stand!!!!!No denial!!!!!The guy said what he said,sorry,HE WROTE IT!!!So he cant even say he was misquoted!!

This is typical lib revisionist history.Just like a senator can be a recruiter for the KLAN for years and then be lauded for his sensitivity to the plight of minorities.

Soul Crusher

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His initial quotes still stand!!!!!No denial!!!!!The guy said what he said,sorry,HE WROTE IT!!!So he cant even say he was misquoted!!

This is typical lib revisionist history.Just like a senator can be a recruiter for the KLAN for years and then be lauded for his sensitivity to the plight of minorities.

Thats right Billy - Emanuel did not disclaim one quote attributed to him.

Of course he is upset having his radical views exposed so that all can see, who wouldnt? 

However, is writing are what they are and no amount of spin can change that.   

The True Adonis

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Fool - I already told you I did BJJ, TMA, etc for many years. 

By the - way - I inclined 315 for 7 last night no spot (I dont do sauce either). 
No you didn`t.  How about we both post pics. :)

Soul Crusher

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No you didn`t.  How about we both post pics. :)

I'm 5'8" about 205 and have been lifting for 15 years.   I will get you a pic later so you have new bathroom material. 

I did the throwing events in college - Shot Put, Hammer Throw, etc and have always been involved in strength related activities.

 

The True Adonis

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Thats right Billy - Emanuel did not disclaim one quote attributed to him.

Of course he is upset having his radical views exposed so that all can see, who wouldnt? 

However, is writing are what they are and no amount of spin can change that.   
No he is upset because his life`s work has been spent on opposing Euthanasia and he is befuddled at how anyone can misinterpret this.  Reading Comprehension and analysis and contextual skills really need to be taught and stressed in schools.  This is just downright absurd.

I would say you know better 333366, but the problem is you never bother to do any fact-checking and you sometimes drop the ball when it comes to context and comprehension.

You can easily remedy this by reading and with about 5 minutes worth of research.


The True Adonis

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I'm 5'8" about 205 and have been lifting for 15 years.   I will get you a pic later so you have new bathroom material. 

I did the throwing events in college - Shot Put, Hammer Throw, etc and have always been involved in strength related activities.

 
Well there are a few pics of you on the web and in my opinion it does not even look like you could lift anywhere near 315 for even a half of a rep.  A 315 incline for 7 Lifetime Natural would put you in line for a World Record Bench amongst Naturals.

Billy Mimnaugh is a Power lifter.  Lets ask him what he thinks.

Soul Crusher

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No he is upset because his life`s work has been spent on opposing Euthanasia and he is befuddled at how anyone can misinterpret this.  Reading Comprehension and analysis and contextual skills really need to be taught and stressed in schools.  This is just downright absurd.

I would say you know better 333366, but the problem is you never bother to do any fact-checking and you sometimes drop the ball when it comes to context and comprehension.

You can easily remedy this by reading and with about 5 minutes worth of research.



I simply quoted an article that posted MANY QUOTES directly attributed to him.  Those were his writings, not mine.  He can spin all he likes, but he wrote along the same theme line many times and he is not disclaiming any of the writings I listed.  

    

Soul Crusher

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Well there are a few pics of you on the web and in my opinion it does not even look like you could lift anywhere near 315 for even a half of a rep.  A 315 incline for 7 Lifetime Natural would put you in line for a World Record Bench amongst Naturals.

Billy Mimnaugh is a Power lifter.  Lets ask him what he thinks.

Here is one from a few years ago.   Mind you, I am completely clean and never did the sauce ever.   

The True Adonis

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Here is one from a few years ago.   Mind you, I am completely clean and never did the sauce ever.   

Good pic there!

I still don`t think you can do 315 for 7 on incline though. 

Soul Crusher

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Good pic there!

I still don`t think you can do 315 for 7 on incline though. 

Im not bragging,  but I have to have some benefit being 5 8' no????   ;D ;D

In all seriousness, its a lot of leverage, technigue, back strength and power.  I have a compact build and the bar really does not have to move too far.   

The ChemistV2

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Here is one from a few years ago.   Mind you, I am completely clean and never did the sauce ever.   

Look great there. Especially good for a natural. Have you won any titles in drug-tested shows?

Soul Crusher

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Look great there. Especially good for a natural. Have you won any titles in drug-tested shows?

I went to law school and all the days of rice cakes, chicken breasts came to an end.   

The True Adonis

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I went to law school and all the days of rice cakes, chicken breasts came to an end.   
You don`t have to eat any of that stuff to stay ripped, lean and keep the size.  You can eat whatever you like.

Kazan

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For cripe sake who is Ezekiel Emanuel's bother? Oh thats right Rahm Emanuel the White House Chief of Staff.

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when the converstaion between those two took place.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Soul Crusher

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You don`t have to eat any of that stuff to stay ripped, lean and keep the size.  You can eat whatever you like.

I look at food and I gain weight. 

Straw Man

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This article by Betsy McCaughey (longtime shill for the health ins. industry) is an intentional distortion of Emanuels work for the express purpose of scaring people who are already dumb and scared to begin with.  One of the biggest problems I have the the Repubs is the shameless intellectual dishonesty.  They know exactly what they are doing, they know they are lying and distorting the facts and they don't care.  It's simply a means to an end and all that matters is that it works.  It's get's people like that nut with his son in a wheelchair to show up at a town hall meeting and start screaming like a lunatic that Obama wants to kill his kid.   What we're witnessing here is a war between corporate interests (PROFITS) and  the best inerests of the citizen/ taxpayer. 


3333 - I know you continue to harp on the whether these quotes are accurate or not but being an attorney and I assume not a stupid person you have to admit, if only to yourself, that context does matter.  If you pull a bunch of quotes taken from many different conversations/interview etc.. you can frame them in a way to present a point of view that is completely false.   This is exactly what McCaughy has done and it clearly works on a certain segment of our society.   I'm honestly suprised you're in that group (but then again  I keep forgetting you think Palin is capable/qualified to be POTUS which always makes me wonder about you)

from the article that Adam posted earlier in this thread:

In her Post article, McCaughey paints the worst possible image of Emanuel, quoting him, for instance, endorsing age discrimination for health-care distribution, without mentioning that he was only addressing extreme cases like organ donation, where there is an absolute scarcity of resources. She quotes him discussing the denial of care for people with dementia without revealing that Emanuel only mentioned dementia in a discussion of theoretical approaches, not an endorsement of a particular policy. She notes that he has criticized medical culture for trying to do everything for a patient, "regardless of the cost or effects on others," without making clear that he was not speaking of lifesaving care but of treatments with little demonstrated value.

This is being dishonest and it's intent is to misinform and scare people.   It clearly works and that's why they do it.

I'm kind of suprised it works on your too. 

Soul Crusher

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Straw - the article I posted had many quotes stretching over many articles that all had the same theme. 

Straw Man

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Straw - the article I posted had many quotes stretching over many articles that all had the same theme. 
again, context matters.

If you don't agree with that basic fact then we have nothing more to talk about

I suspect we'll have nothing more to talk about

Soul Crusher

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again, context matters.

If you don't agree with that basic fact then we have nothing more to talk about

I suspect we'll have nothing more to talk about

This is no different than Furman denying using the N word and than saying he played basketball with blacks.  He should just admit it and defend his writings, not try to do a John Kerry with some nonsensical nuanced view that only he knows.   

Emanuel's own words are understandably upsetting for him to see exposed, no different than Furman when that tape came out.  Sure its embarassing, but those are his writings, not mine or yours.

Tell me the context he was talking about when he said Doctors take the "Hippocratic Oath too seriously"???