Author Topic: Obama camp plants fake doctor, Che fan at Jackson Lee forum (Read 5619 times)

Straw Man · « **Reply #25 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:26:16 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 16, 2009, 04:29:28 PM

The majority of ppl agree that the healthcare system needs work, the majority of ppl also feel that obamas view is not the plan they want

http://www.gallup.com/poll/122255/Amid-Debate-Obama-Approval-Rating-Healthcare-Steady.aspx

that is unless those bad bad ppl who organize(i mean the right wing groups in this case b/c we all know the lefties do it too but they dont get called for it) didnt get to the gallup poll as well...

AGAIN STRAW acting simply for the sake of acting IS NOT THE ANSWER...I agree that healthcare needs to be reformed do we need to provide healthcare to everyone I think thats debatable. Do pre-existing conditions, denied coverage etc...need to be fixed yes but the 2 arent tied together and obama is trying to paint them as such to get HIS AGENDA passed.

I agree. I think Obama should get some stones and push for the plan he actually wants instead of acquiescing to the dumbest among us and winding up with a watered down plan that satisfies no one.

Government_Controlled · « **Reply #26 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:32:27 PM »

Won't it be nice when God replaces these govs. with His own?

GC/DEA_AGENT

tonymctones · « **Reply #27 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:43:27 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 05:26:16 PM

I agree. I think Obama should get some stones and push for the plan he actually wants instead of acquiescing to the dumbest among us and winding up with a watered down plan that satisfies no one.

I tell you this as a fellow getbig member who has witnessed your slide into MSNBC ignorance bro...you sound just like olbeirman/matthews brosky and as a person who ive in the past had many great debates with and for the most part have all been civil youre walking down a bad path...This is exactly whats wrong with this country its not an us against them mentality that we need. We are all for the most part productive members of this society we contribute just the same as others and youre voice should be heard same as mine. You calling others ideas dumb is only going to further the divide watch MSNBC but take it as I take a FOX an opinionated spin.

I agree with your post other then the MSNBC like comment though.

I think if obama actually showed that this program will be self sustaining it would go along way in easing ppls fears about the debt and economy as a whole and then he could work on the everybody deserves healthcare angle he is trying to paint it as all one problem and I think thats his problem its not just one big problem its a bunch of problems AS WELL as a different idea of whats fair.

2ND COMING · « **Reply #28 on:** August 16, 2009, 06:41:16 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 16, 2009, 05:43:27 PM

I tell you this as a fellow getbig member who has witnessed your slide into MSNBC ignorance bro...you sound just like olbeirman/matthews brosky and as a person who ive in the past had many great debates with and for the most part have all been civil youre walking down a bad path...This is exactly whats wrong with this country its not an us against them mentality that we need. We are all for the most part productive members of this society we contribute just the same as others and youre voice should be heard same as mine. You calling others ideas dumb is only going to further the divide watch MSNBC but take it as I take a FOX an opinionated spin.

I agree with your post other then the MSNBC like comment though.

I think if obama actually showed that this program will be self sustaining it would go along way in easing ppls fears about the debt and economy as a whole and then he could work on the everybody deserves healthcare angle he is trying to paint it as all one problem and I think thats his problem its not just one big problem its a bunch of problems AS WELL as a different idea of whats fair.

i agree with straw he needs to grab a pair and take the same route as bush and bully his way through laws.

tonymctones · « **Reply #29 on:** August 16, 2009, 07:11:51 PM »

Quote from: 2ND COMING on August 16, 2009, 06:41:16 PM

i agree with straw he needs to grab a pair and take the same route as bush and bully his way through laws.

hahaha why you gotta pick on shaq man? he is boderline retarded

He already did that guys the stimulus bill ring a bell?

lets face it the dems are in real jeopardy of losing a good number of seats in congress in the upcoming elections passing a bill that the majority of ppl arent in favor of with little rep support will pretty much seal the deal. What obama needs to do to get rep support is get public support the only reason the reps are holding out so much right now is b/c they know the majority of ppl dont want this. If they did the reps would go along with it and obama would have his healthcare plan.

Obama needs to
address the problems seperatly instead of painting them as all interconnected...they are not he is trying to push his philosophy that everyone should be health insurance and paint it as the problem with healthcare, its not the problem. I dont know if you guys understand that or not his playing a cloak and dagger game with healthcare.

He also needs so show that his plan on getting the money to run this public option can come from the new regulations and processes within the current system before he goes full scale. The idea that this guy thinks he can just throw some shit out there and it will operate just as he believes it will is assinine. This is the same thing as a pharmacuetical company putting out a drug w/o any trial runs behind it.

2ND COMING · « **Reply #30 on:** August 16, 2009, 07:22:27 PM »

the stimulus was pelosi's bill...and it wasn't exactly an agenda thing for obamer. I'm not gonna get in to a full fledged debate with you because its sunday night...and your grammar is giving me a headache

Straw Man · « **Reply #31 on:** August 16, 2009, 07:30:52 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 16, 2009, 05:43:27 PM

I tell you this as a fellow getbig member who has witnessed your slide into MSNBC ignorance bro...you sound just like olbeirman/matthews brosky and as a person who ive in the past had many great debates with and for the most part have all been civil youre walking down a bad path...This is exactly whats wrong with this country its not an us against them mentality that we need. We are all for the most part productive members of this society we contribute just the same as others and youre voice should be heard same as mine. You calling others ideas dumb is only going to further the divide watch MSNBC but take it as I take a FOX an opinionated spin.

I agree with your post other then the MSNBC like comment though.

I think if obama actually showed that this program will be self sustaining it would go along way in easing ppls fears about the debt and economy as a whole and then he could work on the everybody deserves healthcare angle he is trying to paint it as all one problem and I think thats his problem its not just one big problem its a bunch of problems AS WELL as a different idea of whats fair.

I haven't called an "others ideas" dumb

what "ideas" are you even referring to?

mere opposition, screaming/yelling about something that's completely false (death camps, people with disabilities are going to be killed, your grandma is going to be denied health care in order to give health to to an illegal alien etc...) is not an idea or a solution

Do you really think the guy screaming that his son in a wheel chair will be killed if health care reform passes is really concerned about the finances of the bill. This guy truly believes that Obama is out to kill his kid. That's the stupidity I'm talking about. The fucking Dems are changing the bill so to satisfy angry people who are too dumb to even understand the converstaion.

We've got 50 million people with zero health care and probably at least another 50 million with health care whe can't even afford to use it.

I've already weighed in on what I think should be done to fix our fucked up system:

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 11:01:32 AM

Reform could be as simple as fostering more competition, stopping abusive practices (rescission, pre-existing conditions, etc..), setting up a reliable way for the consumer to have recourse against health insurance companies who reject legitimate claims for service, and having a public option.

tonymctones · « **Reply #32 on:** August 16, 2009, 07:42:32 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 07:30:52 PM

I haven't called an "others ideas" dumb

what "ideas" are you even referring to?

mere opposition, screaming/yelling about something that's completely false (death camps, people with disabilities are going to be killed, your grandma is going to be denied health care in order to give health to to an illegal alien etc...) is not an idea or a solution

Do you really think the guy screaming that his son in a wheel chair will be killed if health care reform passes is really concerned about the finances of the bill. This guy truly believes that Obama is out to kill his kid. That's the stupidity I'm talking about. The fucking Dems are changing the bill so to satisfy angry people who are too dumb to even understand the converstaion.

We've got 50 million people with zero health care and probably at least another 50 million with health care whe can't even afford to use it.

I've already weighed in on what I think should be done to fix our fucked up system:

LOL is it out of the realm of possibilities that decisions that could be made on the program could lead to the death of ppl? no its not, is it probable? no its not

Those ideas arent dumb the are articulated in probably one of the most ignorant ways possible but they have legitimate worries about losing options, govt determining health care procedures etc...

OK now see you again are confusing two seperate problems, ppl without healthcare and problems within our current healthcare system are not tied together and SHOULD NOT BE PRESENTED AS SUCH like obama is doing.

I think just about everybody is in agreement that our current healthcare system needs some work, that doesnt mean we want to give healthcare to everyone...2 seperate problems that obama is putting together to push his agenda, do you understand that?

Fix our current healthcare system would be number one, the only reason he is trying to push both at in the same bill is b/c he knows a bill to soley provide healthcare to those without it would not stand a chance of passing.

Straw Man · « **Reply #33 on:** August 16, 2009, 07:47:13 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 16, 2009, 07:42:32 PM

LOL is it out of the realm of possibilities that decisions that could be made on the program could lead to the death of ppl? no its not, is it probable? no its not

Those ideas arent dumb the are articulated in probably one of the most ignorant ways possible but they have legitimate worries about losing options, govt determining health care procedures etc...

OK now see you again are confusing two seperate problems, ppl without healthcare and problems within our current healthcare system are not tied together and SHOULD NOT BE PRESENTED AS SUCH like obama is doing.

I think just about everybody is in agreement that our current healthcare system needs some work, that doesnt mean we want to give healthcare to everyone...2 seperate problems that obama is putting together to push his agenda, do you understand that?

Fix our current healthcare system would be number one, the only reason he is trying to push both at in the same bill is b/c he knows a bill to soley provide healthcare to those without it would not stand a chance of passing.

I think we as a country should be able to provide basic health care to everyone, especially children.

If other countries can do it then we certainly can do it too

tonymctones · « **Reply #34 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:17:39 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 07:47:13 PM

I think we as a country should be able to provide basic health care to everyone, especially children.

If other countries can do it then we certainly can do it too

I agree and if they go to a hospital then they will not be turned away, its not my responsibility nor yours to subsidize someone elses healthcare sorry. I think everybody should be able to live comfortably as well that doesnt mean im going to pay for apartments or homes for everyone though. Sorry straw I understand where youre coming from but sorry we are taxed enough for BS reasons. This is a worthy cause but get rid of some of the bs first and then come talk to me paying for someone elses problems.

Again thats a difference in opinion and philosophy though and has nothing to do with our current healthcare system and its problem so lets leave them seperate and not try to put them together and piggy back one b/c you know the other wont pass.

Straw Man · « **Reply #35 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:20:15 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 16, 2009, 08:17:39 PM

I agree and if they go to a hospital then they will not be turned away, its not my responsibility nor yours to subsidize someone elses healthcare sorry. I think everybody should be able to live comfortably as well that doesnt mean im going to pay for apartments or homes for everyone though. Sorry straw I understand where youre coming from but sorry we are taxed enough for BS reasons. This is a worthy cause but get rid of some of the bs first and then come talk to me paying for someone elses problems.

Again thats a difference in opinion and philosophy though and has nothing to do with our current healthcare system and its problem so lets leave them seperate and not try to put them together and piggy back one b/c you know the other wont pass.

we already subsidize peoples health care

and guess what, we subsidize their apartments too

tonymctones · « **Reply #36 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:24:57 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 08:20:15 PM

we already subsidize peoples health care

and guess what, we subsidize their apartments too

do we subsidize everyones?

straw: no

tony: my point exactly

I agree that programs need to be in place to assist ppl which is what we do...

Hows this add healthcare for children into property tax in each school district if you dont have children you dont pay the tax.

Sorry again straw its not my place to pay for others shit, Im not going around asking for handouts and Im especially hurting right now why should I be asked to pay for other ppls shit?

Straw Man · « **Reply #37 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:29:45 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 16, 2009, 08:24:57 PM

do we subsidize everyones?

straw: no

tony: my point exactly

I agree that programs need to be in place to assist ppl which is what we do...

Hows this add healthcare for children into property tax in each school district if you dont have children you dont pay the tax.

Sorry again straw its not my place to pay for others shit, Im not going around asking for handouts and Im especially hurting right now why should I be asked to pay for other ppls shit?

we don't have to subsidize everyone

the same would go for health care too

hence the word "option" in public option

tonymctones · « **Reply #38 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:38:51 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 08:29:45 PM

we don't have to subsidize everyone

the same would go for health care too

hence the word "option" in public option

then why do we even need a public option?

why not simply fix the problems with our current healthcare system?

Straw Man · « **Reply #39 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:42:03 PM »

I'll repeat:

"Reform could be as simple as fostering more competition, stopping abusive practices (rescission, pre-existing conditions, etc..), setting up a reliable way for the consumer to have recourse against health insurance companies who reject legitimate claims for service, and having a public option"

the more we do of the first part of the list the less people there are who will need the public option

tonymctones · « **Reply #40 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:49:32 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 08:42:03 PM

I'll repeat:

"Reform could be as simple as fostering more competition, stopping abusive practices (rescission, pre-existing conditions, etc..), setting up a reliable way for the consumer to have recourse against health insurance companies who reject legitimate claims for service, and having a public option"

the more we do of the first part of the list the less people there are who will need the public option

agreed so lets start there and save the rest of obamas plan for say plan E

stop supporting a movement that you already agree is way overboard and not necessary at this moment. Lets scale it down and address problems and not ideals and deal with the issues at hand with our current system.

If obama really wanted to reform healthcare he would do that...

tonymctones · « **Reply #41 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:54:43 PM »

Quote from: 2ND COMING on August 16, 2009, 07:22:27 PM

the stimulus was pelosi's bill...and it wasn't exactly an agenda thing for obamer. I'm not gonna get in to a full fledged debate with you because its sunday night...and your grammar is giving me a headache

LOL i always had to rely on the grammer/spell check in WORD to help my write my papers

and obamers pushed that bill more then anyone else, its fine if it wasnt "his" bill but he made it his own when he campaigned and pushed so hard for it...

Straw Man · « **Reply #42 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:55:20 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 16, 2009, 08:49:32 PM

agreed so lets start there and save the rest of obamas plan for say plan E

stop supporting a movement that you already agree is way overboard and not necessary at this moment. Lets scale it down and address problems and not ideals and deal with the issues at hand with our current system.

If obama really wanted to reform healthcare he would do that...

I never said or agreed that healthcare legislation was way overboard or not necessary at this time

where did you get that idea?

tonymctones · « **Reply #43 on:** August 16, 2009, 09:06:41 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 08:55:20 PM

I never said or agreed that healthcare legislation was way overboard or not necessary at this time

where did you get that idea?

I figured it from your stance that not providing a public option is ok and not necessary, sorry if i misinterpreted

on this topic

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090816/pl_politico/26158

looks like they MAY be looking to back away from the public option...

make it where insurance companies can cross state lines, implement his rules and regs that are supposed to cut healthcare costs, implement tort reform, get rid of the pre-existing conditions bull shit and the denied coverage bs...this should eliminate the need for a public option.

If doing these things was going to lower the cost of health insurance as it is why does he feel the need to create another govt program?

Straw Man · « **Reply #44 on:** August 16, 2009, 09:13:22 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 16, 2009, 09:06:41 PM

I figured it from your stance that not providing a public option is ok and not necessary, sorry if i misinterpreted

on this topic

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090816/pl_politico/26158

looks like they MAY be looking to back away from the public option...

make it where insurance companies can cross state lines, implement his rules and regs that are supposed to cut healthcare costs, implement tort reform, get rid of the pre-existing conditions bull shit and the denied coverage bs...this should eliminate the need for a public option.

If doing these things was going to lower the cost of health insurance as it is why does he feel the need to create another govt program?

no worries but I'm baffled how you arrived at the conclusion that my "stance" was that not providing a public option is OK and not necessary.

are you joking?

I posted at least 3 times that I was in favor of a public option and I also posted this:

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 07:47:13 PM

I think we as a country should be able to provide basic health care to everyone, especially children.

If other countries can do it then we certainly can do it too

tonymctones · « **Reply #45 on:** August 16, 2009, 09:18:14 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 09:13:22 PM

no worries but I'm baffled how you arrived at the conclusion that my "stance" was that not providing a public option is OK and not necessary.

are you joking?

I posted at least 3 times that I was in favor of a public option and I also posted this:

ok let me ask you this i may be a little confused as to what the public option entails...

The public option provides healthcare to all ppl, yes or no? I mean even if you dont pay for health insurance under obamas plan you go to the hospital for something and youre covered?

or is it something that you will still have to pay for and if you dont pay for it like you would a regular health insurance you dont get the benefits?

Straw Man · « **Reply #46 on:** August 16, 2009, 09:24:07 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 16, 2009, 09:18:14 PM

ok let me ask you this i may be a little confused as to what the public option entails...

The public option provides healthcare to all ppl, yes or no? I mean even if you dont pay for health insurance under obamas plan you go to the hospital for something and youre covered?

or is it something that you will still have to pay for and if you dont pay for it like you would a regular health insurance you dont get the benefits?

Tommy, haven't we already been over this.

We should have a public option for people who want to avail themselves of it. It would be a low cost or subsidized option similar to Medicare but it wouldn't have (again, speculating here) the same level of choices that say a PPO plan would have. If we did all the other stuff I mentioned: fostering more competition, stopping abusive practices (rescission, pre-existing conditions, etc..), setting up a reliable way for the consumer to have recourse against health insurance companies who reject legitimate claims for service, etc... then many people would still most likely choose a private option.

tonymctones · « **Reply #47 on:** August 16, 2009, 09:29:21 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 09:24:07 PM

Tommy, haven't we already been over this.

We should have a public option for people who want to avail themselves of it. It would be a low cost or subsidized option similar to Medicare but it wouldn't have (again, speculating here) the same level of choices that say a PPO plan would have. If we did all the other stuff I mentioned: fostering more competition, stopping abusive practices (rescission, pre-existing conditions, etc..), setting up a reliable way for the consumer to have recourse against health insurance companies who reject legitimate claims for service, etc... then many people would still most likely choose a private option.

just curious theres alot of misinformation on both sides straw...

the way you put it, it sounds that you would still have to pay premiums etc. for the public option, the way some others on here including lefties you wouldnt, which one is it?

so it would be govt subsidized?

it seems to me that if obama implemented all the things that we agree on then a public option would not be needed at all, what would a public option provide over those actions?

Straw Man · « **Reply #48 on:** August 16, 2009, 09:33:03 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 16, 2009, 09:29:21 PM

just curious theres alot of misinformation on both sides straw...

the way you put it, it sounds that you would still have to pay premiums etc. for the public option, they way some others on here including lefties you wouldnt, which one is it?

so it would be govt subsidized?

it seems to me that if obama implemented all the things that we agree on then a public option would not be needed at all, what would a public option provide over those actions?

the public option has not been clearly defined but I expect it would be some combo of free (depending on income) or very low premiums. I doubt it would compare to a good PPO plan.

Frankly, if we just implemented the the items that I listed: foster competition, stop abuses, give insureds recourse against rejection of legitimate claims - then I think very few people would choose the public option.

tonymctones · « **Reply #49 on:** August 16, 2009, 09:39:50 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 16, 2009, 09:33:03 PM

the public option has not been clearly defined but I expect it would be some combo of free (depending on income) or very low premiums. I doubt it would compare to a good PPO plan.

Frankly, if we just implemented the the items that I listed: foster competition, stop abuses, give insureds recourse against rejection of legitimate claims - then I think very few people would choose the public option.

well then again sorry its not my place to pay for another persons ish, a difference in philosophy i guess

I agree perhaps making companies supply lower coverage health insurance to part time workers over say 20 hrs/wk as well would help the situation as well.