I WILL ,say this bob stuck with npc through thick and thin,through so many shows and beat and was beaten by many great future pros.those 80/90 yrs the usa lineups were so deep that a 10 th place guy say in 91 u look down the road a few yrs and they finally turned pro.or they were a middleweight then turned pro as a light heavy a few yrs later.chic competed at the jr nat's at like 20?u cannot deny his contest record or longevity to compete.