Overwhelming Majority of Fox Viewers Don't Know Obama's Health Plan

[Decker]

FOX vs. CNN/MSNBC: Here’s another way to look at the misinformation: In our poll, 72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will:

*give coverage to illegal immigrants,

*79% of them say it will lead to a government takeover,

*69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and

*75% believe that it will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing care for the elderly.

But it would be incorrect to suggest that this is ONLY coming from conservative viewers who tune in to FOX. In fact, 41% of CNN/MSNBC viewers believe the misinformation about illegal immigrants, 39% believe the government takeover stuff, 40% believe the abortion misperception, and 30% believe the stuff about pulling the plug on grandma. What’s more, a good chunk of folks who get their news from broadcast TV (NBC, ABC, CBS) believe these things, too. This is about credible messengers using the media to get some of this misinformation out there, not as much about the filter itself. These numbers should worry Democratic operatives, as well as the news media that have been covering this story.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/08/19/2036015.aspx

So the misinformation/propaganda campaign by Big Insurance and the republican party is working.  It just works very well on loyal Fox viewers.

No real surprise there.

If it weren't for fear, death threats, intimidation and lies, the republican party would be silent on healthcare reform.

[GigantorX]

The way people talk about it I don't think a majority of the people in the U.S. know about Obama's Health Care "Plan". And that includes many Congressmen.

[Soul Crusher]

FOX vs. CNN/MSNBC: Here’s another way to look at the misinformation: In our poll, 72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will:

*give coverage to illegal immigrants,

*79% of them say it will lead to a government takeover,

*69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and

*75% believe that it will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing care for the elderly.

But it would be incorrect to suggest that this is ONLY coming from conservative viewers who tune in to FOX. In fact, 41% of CNN/MSNBC viewers believe the misinformation about illegal immigrants, 39% believe the government takeover stuff, 40% believe the abortion misperception, and 30% believe the stuff about pulling the plug on grandma. What’s more, a good chunk of folks who get their news from broadcast TV (NBC, ABC, CBS) believe these things, too. This is about credible messengers using the media to get some of this misinformation out there, not as much about the filter itself. These numbers should worry Democratic operatives, as well as the news media that have been covering this story.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/08/19/2036015.aspx

So the misinformation/propaganda campaign by Big Insurance and the republican party is working.  It just works very well on loyal Fox viewers.

No real surprise there.

If it weren't for fear, death threats, intimidation and lies, the republican party would be silent on healthcare reform.

Thats funny Decker- What is his plan?

I have only seen the garbage put out by Pelosi.

[BM OUT]

All the things you posted exist.This idea that it doesnt cover abortion is insane.The bill CLEARLY states it covers womens reproductive health.THATS abortion.The left tries to pretend its not but thats what it is.Its like when they include the health of the mother as  reason for partial birth abortions.Health can be defined as depression.Its a joke.

The government will take over because a private buisiness CANT compete with a government run one because the government doesnt have to make a profit,doesnt have to pay taxes.

Im not sure of the illegal imigrant issue,but the other two are obviously in the bill.You need to understand what the bill really means.

[George Whorewell]

LOL- Obama himself doesnt even know his health plan because its still a work in progress.

What is the point of this thread?

[Decker]

Thats funny Decker- What is his plan?

I have only seen the garbage put out by Pelosi.

Here it is in its entirety:

http://patientsunitednow.com/files/full-bill-searchable.pdf

[Soul Crusher]

Decker- all those things by definitition will occur. 

[shootfighter1]

Decker, where has the government spelled out what is in the plan (in an understandible summary)?  There are currently 3 bills from my understanding with many things in common.

It seems the administration is spending more energy criticizing 'misinformation' than giving the actual details.  I feel like they give us a lot of lip service and propaganda.  They repeat the mantra that this plan will save $ when the CBO said it will cost more.  It seems like they are still in campaign mode to me...and trying to control the media and manage information being sent out.  I think thats why many people are upset.  The media is failing IMO...there is not balanced coverage.  Yes, fox often goes too far right but its clear that the majority of the media is not questioning this administration like they should be.

I am a doc and I don't even know many details.  I also heard the plan will give coverage to illegals and will pay for part or all abortions.  Can you show us where the bill will not do these things?

This certainly could be a government take over of healthcare, thats not misinformation...particu larly if there is a public plan.  People can debates the positives and negatives, but this is certainly government getting into the business of healthcare, we'll see to what degree.

[Hedgehog]

Thats funny Decker- What is his plan?

I have only seen the garbage put out by Pelosi.

If you haven't seen the plan, then why have you been so critical of it? 

[Decker]

All the things you posted exist.This idea that it doesnt cover abortion is insane.The bill CLEARLY states it covers womens reproductive health.THATS abortion.The left tries to pretend its not but thats what it is.Its like when they include the health of the mother as  reason for partial birth abortions.Health can be defined as depression.Its a joke.

First of all abortion is not illegal if it follows the law of Roe.  Second, the bill does not stipulate anything about financing abortions.  It doesn't. 

The government will take over because a private buisiness CANT compete with a government run one because the government doesnt have to make a profit,doesnt have to pay taxes.

The employees of the gov pay taxes like everyone else.

So you admit that the profit motive is a reason that health care costs are keeping millions uninsured.

This is where the moral component of UHC comes in:  You value profit over people.  You just said as much.  This also speaks to the notion that healthcare is not a commodity that works in the free market.  After all, if it weren't for Medicare, Medicaid and VA benefits, private insurance could not operate at a profit.

Im not sure of the illegal imigrant issue,but the other two are obviously in the bill.You need to understand what the bill really means.

http://patientsunitednow.com/files/full-bill-searchable.pdf

[Soul Crusher]

If you haven't seen the plan, then why have you been so critical of it? 

I am critical of the Pelosi plan, which I believe it what Obama is going off of.  If he has his own plan, I have not seen it. 

[240 is Back]

The daily Show had a nice graphic on how misinformed the far-left and far-right viewers both are.

Face it guys, this is the bottom line.  The bill will really screw rich people who own stock in health ins companies.  The bill will water down the quality of service received by 5/6 of Americans.  If you're dirt poor, the bill is gonna hook you the fck up.

Since most of us on getbig are middle- to upper-middle class, educated readers, we're not gonna benefit from this healthcare plan.  Why would we want our heatlh-care plan watered down?

The only caveat here is that our health care costs have spiked in the last 8 years, and that the companies pocketed the $ as a way to get rich instead of lowering costs.  As a result, the govt just got the door opened to run another private industry.  Just as with the Big 3 Auto and Big banking, you greedy fvckers looted for the last 8 years instead of delivering something sustainable.  Now, you opened up the door for the govt to take over.  If healthcare costs were down, we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we?

[Decker]

Decker, where has the government spelled out what is in the plan (in an understandible summary)?  There are currently 3 bills from my understanding with many things in common.

It seems the administration is spending more energy criticizing 'misinformation' than giving the actual details.  I feel like they give us a lot of lip service and propaganda.  They repeat the mantra that this plan will save $ when the CBO said it will cost more.  It seems like they are still in campaign mode to me...and trying to control the media and manage information being sent out.  I think thats why many people are upset.  The media is failing IMO...there is not balanced coverage.  Yes, fox often goes too far right but its clear that the majority of the media is not questioning this administration like they should be.

These are valid concerns.  And the worst part is is that the bill will change forms a bunch more times.  I think Obama made the following errors:  He did not go with a single payer plan, he concentrated on the financial savings of his plan when he should have pounded the moral aspect, he does a poor job of communicating the urgency of having care for the poor and uninsured.

I am a doc and I don't even know many details.  I also heard the plan will give coverage to illegals and will pay for part or all abortions.  Can you show us where the bill will not do these things?

Look at page 100 under "eligible individual".  The plan applies to only americans.

Abortions are legal under Roe.  There is no language in the bill authorizing the gov. financing of abortions.

This certainly could be a government take over of healthcare, thats not misinformation...particu larly if there is a public plan.  People can debates the positives and negatives, but this is certainly government getting into the business of healthcare, we'll see to what degree.

I think we should have gov. take over healthcare.  That being said, there is nothing in the bill that establishes that idea as principle or rule.

[shootfighter1]

Actually, I agree with you...I don't like profit being the underlying motive for healthcare by insurance companies either.  Its just that everything the government seems to control is too complicated, too expensive, wasteful, and gets bogged down.

[shootfighter1]

Yes, on page 100 I see where section A clearly states a citizen of the U.S.  Section B states "qualified individual" (what does that mean?).
I hope your right, I certainly don't think we should be providing the same healthcare benefits to illegals, unless they are paying for it.

Government could open up more competition among insurance companies and lay down multiple regulations to protect people (ie..just a couple... remove pre-existing conditions clauses, somehow keep % of out of pocket expenses down, address whole malpractice reform, etc)....or have a single payer system.  I'm not sure co-ops would work.  I would try to first concept first.

[Decker]

...
Since most of us on getbig are middle- to upper-middle class, educated readers, we're not gonna benefit from this healthcare plan.  Why would we want our heatlh-care plan watered down?

...

I don't think this is true.  My wife and I are handcuffed by Big Insurance.  She gets better insurance from her job than I do from mine.  She has a pre-existing condition.  I make much more money than she does but my job is 105 miles from our house.  We would like to move but we can't b/c of the high cost of health insurance.  Cobra is an unaffordable option.

We would benefit from Obama's plan.

And again, if this were true UHC, most of our health indicators would go up, not down.  Remember, the US is ranked 37th in the world for health care.

[Soul Crusher]

Yes, on page 100 I see where section A clearly states a citizen of the U.S.  Section B states "qualified individual" (what does that mean?).
I hope your right, I certainly don't think we should be providing the same healthcare benefits to illegals, unless they are paying for it.

Come on guys - you are smarter than this.  

Obama plans on giving the illegals amnesty later in the year and once they are made legal will qualifiy for this.  Look beyond the headlines to see the real truth.  

[BM OUT]

First of all abortion is not illegal if it follows the law of Roe.  Second, the bill does not stipulate anything about financing abortions.  It doesn't. 
The employees of the gov pay taxes like everyone else.

So you admit that the profit motive is a reason that health care costs are keeping millions uninsured.

This is where the moral component of UHC comes in:  You value profit over people.  You just said as much.  This also speaks to the notion that healthcare is not a commodity that works in the free market.  After all, if it weren't for Medicare, Medicaid and VA benefits, private insurance could not operate at a profit.
http://patientsunitednow.com/files/full-bill-searchable.pdf

So you ADMIT abortion will be covered by tax dollars?

Insurance companies are there to make a profit.I would think thats the reason for ALL work done in America.Perhaps Im wrong.

Now,the libs say that the public option fosters competition.Once again I ask,how can a private buisiness compete with the government.The government can loose money forevor[look at the post office]pay no taxes,doesnt have follow strict regulations.How is that competition?Its like two baseball teams "competing" when one team gets unlimited outs and an unli,mited amount of fielders.

On top of that,the reason Im against the public option is that the government runs every program into the ground.Christ,even the post office has lost 7 billion the last two years running.It will bankrupt the country.PLUS do you see how the dealers arent getting paid in the cars for clunkers program?Multiply that by a thousand and thats the way hospitals,doctors and health care providers will be paid.IT CANT WORK!!!

[240 is Back]

I don't think this is true.  My wife and I are handcuffed by Big Insurance.  She gets better insurance from her job than I do from mine.  She has a pre-existing condition.  I make much more money than she does but my job is 105 miles from our house.  We would like to move but we can't b/c of the high cost of health insurance.  Cobra is an unaffordable option.

We would benefit from Obama's plan.

And again, if this were true UHC, most of our health indicators would go up, not down.  Remember, the US is ranked 37th in the world for health care.

Wow, I did not know this.  interesting stuff.

I don't like the idea, that I've been paying 500 a month for my family and getting good coverage, and suddenly everyone gets it.  But at the same time, another 10 years of spiking prices like this, and it's gonna be a lot more than 1/6 of us without coverage.  I got low on $ this year and had to take myself off for a while, but the wifey and son were stuff covered.

This was preventable.  health care companies did what the other 2 industries did, for the last decade.  They broke the system.  

[BM OUT]

I don't think this is true.  My wife and I are handcuffed by Big Insurance.  She gets better insurance from her job than I do from mine.  She has a pre-existing condition.  I make much more money than she does but my job is 105 miles from our house.  We would like to move but we can't b/c of the high cost of health insurance.  Cobra is an unaffordable option.

We would benefit from Obama's plan.

And again, if this were true UHC, most of our health indicators would go up, not down.  Remember, the US is ranked 37th in the world for health care.

Those stats are scewed.We include deaths from car accidents and other tragedies but other countries dont.People come HERE for health care .NO ONE from here goes abroad for health care.

[shootfighter1]

240, the poor already have medicaid....which many abuse IMO.  I used to see so many kids unnecessarily in my former practice.  Mom brings in 1 child who has a cold and she wants the other 3 (who have no symptoms) seen.  That happened frequently.

I don't see how we can control costs under a government plan.  They want to cut reimbursements and make care available to 46 million more people.  We are already loosing primary care docs because they feel underpaid, overworked, too much paperwork, disrespected by hospital administrators (see the commentary on cnn website today).  The % of med school grads choosing primary care has been down for years now.  So, we have less primary care docs, and less reimbursement...that means docs will be forced to see more patients per hour...and thats a main complaint of primary care docs already!

Decker, I'm not sure about coverage for illegals man...they keep saying 46 million without insurance need coverage (that # includes 12-18 million illegals).  I'd want to hear them specifically say it wouldn't cover illegals.

[Decker]

So you ADMIT abortion will be covered by tax dollars?

No.  I said abortion is legal.  I don't see any language in the bill that authorizes tax dollar coverage of abortions.

Insurance companies are there to make a profit.I would think thats the reason for ALL work done in America.Perhaps Im wrong.

The nation's collective health is a poor commodity for profit.

Now,the libs say that the public option fosters competition.Once again I ask,how can a private buisiness compete with the government.The government can loose money forevor[look at the post office]pay no taxes,doesnt have follow strict regulations.How is that competition?Its like two baseball teams "competing" when one team gets unlimited outs and an unli,mited amount of fielders.

The high rollers will stick with private coverage.  The middle class always looks for more coverage beyond the base offered by the plan.  There will always be a market for private insurance in this arrangement.  And that's too bad.

On top of that,the reason Im against the public option is that the government runs every program into the ground.Christ,even the post office has lost 7 billion the last two years running.It will bankrupt the country.PLUS do you see how the dealers arent getting paid in the cars for clunkers program?Multiply that by a thousand and thats the way hospitals,doctors and health care providers will be paid.IT CANT WORK!!!

FedEX lost more than the post office.  Patience on the Clunker program.  Immediate gratification is not an option.  These things take time.  And since the clunker program has worked extremely well, we should be patient.

[Soul Crusher]

240, the poor already have medicaid....which many abuse IMO.  I used to see so many kids unnecessarily in my former practice.  Mom brings in 1 child who has a cold and she wants the other 3 (who have no symptoms) seen.  That happened frequently.

I don't see how we can control costs under a government plan.  They want to cut reimbursements and make care available to 46 million more people.  We are already loosing primary care docs because they feel underpayed, overworked, too much paperwork, disrespected by hospital administrators (see the commentary on cnn website today).  The % of med school grads choosing primary care has been down for years now.  So, we have less primary care docs, and less reimbursement...that means docs will be forced to see more patients per hour...and thats a main complaint of primary care docs already!

Decker, I'm not sure about coverage for illegals man...they keep saying 46 million without insurance need coverage (that # includes 12-18 million illegals).  I'd want to hear them specifically say it wouldn't cover illegals.

Shoot - you need to ask the question differently.

If they are given amnesty - will they be covered? 

[Decker]

Those stats are scewed.We include deaths from car accidents and other tragedies but other countries dont.People come HERE for health care .NO ONE from here goes abroad for health care.

The world health organization used an even-handed methodology for ranking the efficacy of nations's healthcare.

It's not biased.

[shootfighter1]

I understand what you are saying 33.  Yes, if amnesty passes, they will be covered because they will be given citizenship.  That is a related 2nd debate.  I don't mind an accelerated pathway to citizenship and fees for people that are here illegally but complete amnesty for breaking our laws is unacceptible.  Then deport illegals after that.  Any illegal that commits a crime should be deported too.

Still, the provision for citizenship must be written in the bill so it doesn't attract more illegals to come to this country for handouts.