Overwhelming Majority of Fox Viewers Don't Know Obama's Health Plan

[Decker]

Yeah,2% of dealerships are getting paid back in NY.You act as though 4500 isnt a lot of money.However,if you sell 200 cars ,4500 a clip IS a lot of money.Not many buisiness' can afford to be on the hook for that kind of money.

You're right. 

Why don't we have all those dealers recall all the sales made b/c of the Clunker program.  I'm sure that will put them in the black.

[Decker]

deck, you should post a pic.  Billy's an angry portly man, but he's a top powerlifter.  tony uses profanity like his middle name but he's a great person to debate.  333386 posts his gun purchase dates and addresses.  HH6 posts from work computers in war zones.  Hugo takes time from depriving his people of social services to moderate here.  Ozmo takes the time to post on his palm Pilot at red lights. 

I used to belong to Ironmagazine forum.  I didn't post a pic there either but I did keep a training log.  That failed b/c I hate keeping diaries.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/online-journals/66534-i-don-t-give-shit-anymore.html

[Soul Crusher]

You're right. 

Why don't we have all those dealers recall all the sales made b/c of the Clunker program.  I'm sure that will put them in the black.

Decker the dumbass strikes again.  Most at this point would do that in a heartbeat.  Dealers make very little off of new cars and make more on used cars.  However they had to junk the old cars as a condition of getting the voucher.  So the poor dealer is left with nothing but an IOU from Obama that they are going to pay.  They dont even have the old car to sell off to make up the lost $$$.

The bill itself said payment was supposed to be made within 10 days of the dealer submitting the voucher.    

The fact that these dealers now have to pay huge interest payments on the float is criminal.  

[James]

*give coverage to illegal immigrants,

Illegal Alien Children and pregnant Mothers already get coverage under "SCHIP"

as the Democrats did not put in words barring illegals from coverage with SCHIP

The same thing will happen with Obamacare, for adult illegals

*69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and

If it does not specifically state that their is no funding for Abortions, then it can and will be used to pay for abortions .

This is what caused the "Hide Amendment" that was passed in 1976

The Hide Amendment was the provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortions for Medicaid.

Every Politician knows about the Hide Amendment, and if their is no provision ( wording barring funding for abortions) in this current Bill,  then Abortion is covered, plain and simple

[Soul Crusher]

You're right. 

Why don't we have all those dealers recall all the sales made b/c of the Clunker program.  I'm sure that will put them in the black.

How about this Decker - because of the incompetence  of the Governmenet, it now has to hire 300 new people to do what should have done from day one.  How much is that going to cost? 

[Decker]

If it does not specifically state that their is no funding for Abortions, then it can and will be used to pay for abortions .

This is what caused the "Hide Amendment" that was passed in 1976

The Hide Amendment was the provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortions for Medicaid.

Every Politician knows about the Hide Amendment, and if their is no provision ( wording barring funding for abortions) in this current Bill,  then Abortion is covered, plain and simple

13 States already use public dollars to pay for abortions for poor peope.  32 states pay for abortions where the mother's life is at risk.  The Hyde Amendment does apply to Medicaid.

If the Obama bill covers abortion on demand, why did this congressperson in the House try to have the health care bill amended to cover abortions?

http://republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/Media/file/Markups/FullCmte/071709_Health_Reform/Capps.pdf

Maybe that provision will be in the final bill.  I mean abortion is legal.

Private insurance covers abortion.  I think the Public option should as well.  In it's present form it is silent and that does not mean that it does cover abortion.

[Decker]

How about this Decker - because of the incompetence  of the Governmenet, it now has to hire 300 new people to do what should have done from day one.  How much is that going to cost? 

The dealers will get their money.  Why do something, as you suggest, that is nothing more than an hyserical reaction to situation?

[Decker]

Decker the dumbass strikes again.  Most at this point would do that in a heartbeat.  Dealers make very little off of new cars and make more on used cars.  However they had to junk the old cars as a condition of getting the voucher.  So the poor dealer is left with nothing but an IOU from Obama that they are going to pay.  They dont even have the old car to sell off to make up the lost $$$.

The bill itself said payment was supposed to be made within 10 days of the dealer submitting the voucher.    

The fact that these dealers now have to pay huge interest payments on the float is criminal.  

What's your problem Jack?

Dealers make very little off of new car sales?  So now I'm supposed to believe you're fucking Diamond Jim the car shlepper?

 Some vehicles have a very high profit margin percentage, others have a low margin percentage. For example, Lexus vehicles have very high 13% margin, while Suzuki vehicles have only 4% margin. Average profit margins fall in the 7%-8% range.
http://www.leaseguide.com/Articles/carprices.htm

That doesn't include all the extras either.

[Decker]

...

If it does not specifically state that their is no funding for Abortions, then it can and will be used to pay for abortions .

This is what caused the "Hide Amendment" that was passed in 1976

The Hide Amendment was the provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortions for Medicaid.

Every Politician knows about the Hide Amendment, and if their is no provision ( wording barring funding for abortions) in this current Bill,  then Abortion is covered, plain and simple

The Hyde amendment is funded in Obama's budget.

Plain and simple this bill is not.  And your wishful thinking doesn't make it so.

[Straw Man]

The dealers will get their money.  Why do something, as you suggest, that is nothing more than an hyserical reaction to situation?

hysterical reaction is "333"'s default emotion.

he rolls out of bed every morning and needs to find something new to be outraged about

[shootfighter1]

Something else I noticed...CNN is definitely not impartial in this debate.  They have ran far more stories supporting the plan (and criticizing the protestors and potential misinformation).  I am quite dissapointed in CNN.  They should be a news outlet asking questions and reporting facts.

[James]

13 States already use public dollars to pay for abortions for poor peope.  32 states pay for abortions where the mother's life is at risk.  The Hyde Amendment does not apply to Medicaid.

The Hyde Amendment does apply to Medicaid (specifically) .

It forbids federal funding for abortion

it forbids funding for abortions except for cases rape, incest, life endangerment, and physical health damage to the woman.

I mean abortion is legal.

That is why the Hyde Amendment was passed, As Abortion is legal, and their were no specific words barring funds to pay for abortions in Medicaid. And this just proves the point that abortions would be paid for under the new Obama Heathcare, unless their are specific words barring funds to be used for Abortion in the Bill

[shootfighter1]

Decker, I know for sure that abortion is not paid for by all private insurers.  Its a provision in some plans but not all.  The trend has been increasingly not to pay for abortion.

The hyde law applies to medicaid.

[Soul Crusher]

hysterical reaction is "333"'s default emotion.

he rolls out of bed every morning and needs to find something new to be outraged about

Isnt the liberal phrase always:

"If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention" 

At least that was what i was toldduring Bush presidency.

[Decker]

The Hyde Amendment does apply to Medicaid (specifically) .

It forbids federal funding for abortion

it forbids funding for abortions except for cases rape, incest, life endangerment, and physical health damage to the woman.

Why did you change my quote?

The HYDE amendment does not forbid all gov. financed abortion for medicaid.  If the life of the mother is in jeopardy, the gov. will foot the bill.

That is why the Hyde Amendment was passed, As Abortion is legal, and their were no specific words barring funds to pay for abortions in Medicaid. And this just proves the point that abortions would be paid for under the new Obama Heathcare, unless their are specific words barring funds to be used for Abortion in the Bill

Medicaid is not Obama's health plan.  Your conclusion is erroneous.  If Obama's plan covers abortion, then why did a congressperson try to attach an amendment to the health bill to cover abotions?

[Decker]

Decker, I know for sure that abortion is not paid for by all private insurers.  Its a provision in some plans but not all.  The trend has been increasingly not to pay for abortion.

The hyde law applies to medicaid.

I know policies from PIs are different.  The point I'm making though is that abortion coverage is available...it's not illegal.

I know the Hyde Amendment applies to MEdicaid.  James changed my quote.

[James]

Why did you change my quote?

I copied your quote exactly. I see that you later went back and changed it.

Even "shootfighter1" responded to you saying the "Hyde amendment does not apply to medicaid" by pointing out that it did apply,

The HYDE amendment does not forbid all gov. financed abortion for medicaid.  If the life of the mother is in jeopardy, the gov. will foot the bill.

I already said that, go back and read

Medicaid is not Obama's health plan.  Your conclusion is erroneous.  If Obama's plan covers abortion, then why did a congressperson try to attach an amendment to the health bill to cover abotions?

The amendment, proposed by Democratic Rep. Lois Capps, prohibits the federal government from compelling private providers participating in the federal healthcare exchange to cover abortion. But it also bars the government from prohibiting those plans from offering such coverage. And it requires that at least one of the private plans participating in the exchange cover abortion—and at least one of the plans to not.

Under health care reform, lower income Americans would have their health care subsidized by the government, and they will be allowed to pick a health plan that covers abortion

Does Obama's Healthcare Plan Fund Abortion?

Antiabortion advocates say this purported segregation of private money, which could pay for abortions, from taxpayer money, which could not, is meaningless. The plan, they say, would effectively subsidize abortions with government money. Antiabortion activists note that the Hyde Amendment goes further than banning federal funds for abortion by actually barring any federal healthcare plan—from Medicaid to the private plans available to federal employees—from offering abortion coverage at all



ABC Gives Credibility to View ObamaCare Will Include Taxpayer Funding of Abortion

During Thursday's World News with Charles Gibson, ABC correspondent Kate Snow held open the possibility that some ObamaCare opponents are correct in their belief that universal health care will include taxpayer funding of abortion, although she characterized the truth as "unclear," during a "Reality Check" during which she brought up the likelihood that taxpayer funding would be used to purchase private health insurance plans that cover abortion. Snow:

    Will health care reform lead to taxpayer-funded abortions? Unclear. Current law states federal funds cannot be used for abortions except in the cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother. But under health care reform, lower income Americans would have their health care subsidized by the government, and they will be allowed to pick a health plan that covers abortion.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2009/08/17/abc-gives-credibility-view-obamacare-will-include-taxpayer-funding-ab








I also see you failed to reply to the post I made showing that some illegals already get free Health Coverage through SCHIPS,

FOX vs. CNN/MSNBC: Here’s another way to look at the misinformation: In our poll, 72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will:

*give coverage to illegal immigrants,

Once again :

Illegal Alien Children and pregnant Mothers already get coverage under "SCHIP"

[Soul Crusher]

Once Obama grants them amnesty - they will all be covered anyway. 

He is completely playing a bait & switch game on this. 

[Skip8282]

The dealers will get their money.  Why do something, as you suggest, that is nothing more than an hyserical reaction to situation?

Supposedly for the program to work, that money needs to be infused into the economy.  The dealer paying his/her workers, those workers making purchases, etc.

I don't agree with the program, but I'm not following why you wouldn't want that money out as soon as possible.  And if it hasn't been put out yet, it clearly can't be helping to stimulate the economy.

[Decker]

I copied your quote exactly. I see that you later went back and changed it.

Even "shootfighter1" responded to you saying the "Hyde amendment does not apply to medicaid" by pointing out that it did apply,

I already said that, go back and read

It could have happened that way but I doubt it--there's no notation that I edited the response.  The Hyde amendment is common knowledge amongst the abortion crowd.  You were the one referring to it as the Hide Amendment, right?

The amendment, proposed by Democratic Rep. Lois Capps, prohibits the federal government from compelling private providers participating in the federal healthcare exchange to cover abortion. But it also bars the government from prohibiting those plans from offering such coverage. And it requires that at least one of the private plans participating in the exchange cover abortion—and at least one of the plans to not.

Under health care reform, lower income Americans would have their health care subsidized by the government, and they will be allowed to pick a health plan that covers abortion

Does Obama's Healthcare Plan Fund Abortion?

Antiabortion advocates say this purported segregation of private money, which could pay for abortions, from taxpayer money, which could not, is meaningless. The plan, they say, would effectively subsidize abortions with government money. Antiabortion activists note that the Hyde Amendment goes further than banning federal funds for abortion by actually barring any federal healthcare plan—from Medicaid to the private plans available to federal employees—from offering abortion coverage at all



ABC Gives Credibility to View ObamaCare Will Include Taxpayer Funding of Abortion

During Thursday's World News with Charles Gibson, ABC correspondent Kate Snow held open the possibility that some ObamaCare opponents are correct in their belief that universal health care will include taxpayer funding of abortion, although she characterized the truth as "unclear," during a "Reality Check" during which she brought up the likelihood that taxpayer funding would be used to purchase private health insurance plans that cover abortion. Snow:

    Will health care reform lead to taxpayer-funded abortions? Unclear. Current law states federal funds cannot be used for abortions except in the cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother. But under health care reform, lower income Americans would have their health care subsidized by the government, and they will be allowed to pick a health plan that covers abortion.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2009/08/17/abc-gives-credibility-view-obamacare-will-include-taxpayer-funding-ab

Great.  Another rightwing crap piece I won't listen to.

I also see you failed to reply to the post I made showing that some illegals already get free Health Coverage through SCHIPS,

Once again :

Illegal Alien Children and pregnant Mothers already get coverage under "SCHIP"

I didn't respond b/c you mischaracterize the situation...again.

SCHIP is not Obama's health plan is it?

So why the hell are you bringing it up?

B/c it covers illegals?  ONce again you're full of shit.  S-Chip doesn't cover illegal aliens. 

You just make shit up.

[James]

It could have happened that way but I doubt it--there's no notation that I edited the response.  The Hyde amendment is common knowledge amongst the abortion crowd.  You were the one referring to it as the Hide Amendment, right?

It did happen that way, so stop your bullshit,

I copied your post exactly. You originally wrote  " The Hyde Amendment does not apply to Medicaid."  Then you went back and removed the word "not", (But I had already copied and quoted your original post, for my reply)

Great.  Another rightwing crap piece I won't listen to.

It is quotes from ABC News, when did ABC news become Rightwing ?

But considering you went back and changed your post, by removing the word "not" , and then blamed me for changing your quote 

I didn't respond b/c you mischaracterize the situation...again.

SCHIP is not Obama's health plan is it?

So why the hell are you bringing it up?

B/c it covers illegals?  ONce again you're full of shit.  S-Chip doesn't cover illegal aliens.

SCHIP was changed in 2007, by the Democrats, allowing Illegals to use it (The Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007, H.R. 3963),  its now a Democratic Heath plan, just like the Health Plans trying to be passed now. so it applies 100%

Obama does not have a health Plan, they are all Democratic Health Plans in the House and Senate,  4 in total, the same Democrats that made changes to SCHIPS, doing away with some of the proof requirements, allowing Illegals to use it, so it applies 100 % .

The Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 (H.R. 3963),passed in the Senate and the House of Representatives, weakens the evidentiary and document standards governing entry into the Medicaid program, thereby making it easier for illegal immigrants to fraudulently obtain benefits; and overturns the limitations on immigrant use of Medicaid enacted in the 1996 welfare reform law by gutting the administrative procedures used to determine immigrant eligibility, thereby readily permitting immigrants to receive benefits for which they remain legally ineligible.

You just make shit up.

So you go back and remove the word "not" from your post, and then try to say I changed your quote.... and then you say I make shit up ? 

[Decker]

It did happen that way, so stop your bullshit,

I copied your post exactly. You originally wrote  " The Hyde Amendment does not apply to Medicaid."  Then you went back and removed the word "not", (But I had already copied and quoted your original post, for my reply)

You responded to my message 22 minutes after I posted it.  There's no notation that the message I posted was edited. 

I don't believe you.

It is quotes from ABC News, when did ABC news become Rightwing ?

But considering you went back and changed your post, by removing the word "not" , and then blamed me for changing your quote 

I'm flat out saying I don't believe you.  You posted a blog entry commenting on rightwing hack Charles Gibson (Mr. tax cuts pay for themselves).  Or don't you even read your own bilge?

SCHIP was changed in 2007, by the Democrats, allowing Illegals to use it (The Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007, H.R. 3963),  its now a Democratic Heath plan, just like the Health Plans trying to be passed now. so it applies 100%

Wrong

Obama does not have a health Plan, they are all Democratic Health Plans in the House and Senate,  4 in total, the same Democrats that made changes to SCHIPS, doing away with some of the proof requirements, allowing Illegals to use it, so it applies 100 % .

Wrong

The Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 (H.R. 3963),passed in the Senate and the House of Representatives, weakens the evidentiary and document standards governing entry into the Medicaid program, thereby making it easier for illegal immigrants to fraudulently obtain benefits; and overturns the limitations on immigrant use of Medicaid enacted in the 1996 welfare reform law by gutting the administrative procedures used to determine immigrant eligibility, thereby readily permitting immigrants to receive benefits for which they remain legally ineligible.

So you go back and remove the word "not" from your post, and then try to say I changed your quote.... and then you say I make shit up ? 

Typical made up bullshit.

"The evidentiary and document standards..."

You can't even recognize spin when you post it.  The fucking law does not cover illegal immigrants.  It's that goddam simple.

Your tired rightwing libertarian bullshit makes this topic a chore.  You see the law requires a social security number as proof of citizenship.

You and your paranoid bretheren see that as proof positive that illegals are scamming the system.

First, that conjecture is not law.

Second, your conjecture is conjecture, i.e., you're talking out of your ass.  No matter how passionate you are about the topic, ass-talking is not the law.

You hate illegal foreigners and you overplay your hand time and again.  stop it.


The federal guidelines say - legal immigrants and US citizens are covered.
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/SMDL/downloads/SHO041709.pdf



Honestly, I don't understand your callousness towards helping out kids.  That's fucked up.

[Decker]

Once Obama grants them amnesty - they will all be covered anyway. 

He is completely playing a bait & switch game on this. 

What bait and switch.

If they are granted amnesty, they're as american as you are.  Where's the false pretense of the bait?

[24KT]

All the things you posted exist.This idea that it doesnt cover abortion is insane.The bill CLEARLY states it covers womens reproductive health.THATS abortion.The left tries to pretend its not but thats what it is.Its like when they include the health of the mother as  reason for partial birth abortions.Health can be defined as depression.Its a joke.

The government will take over because a private buisiness CANT compete with a government run one because the government doesnt have to make a profit,doesnt have to pay taxes.

Im not sure of the illegal imigrant issue,but the other two are obviously in the bill.You need to understand what the bill really means.

Women's reproductive health is NOT abortion. It is Pap smears, biopsies, bi-manuals, D & C's, gynecological exams, child birth, C-sections, tubal ligations, ovarian cysts, endometriosis, fibroid tumours, cervical cancer, etc., etc., and all issues related to the reproductive health of a woman. You wanna know what an abortion is? ...It is your thoughts connected to a keyboard! 

[24KT]

Those stats are scewed.We include deaths from car accidents and other tragedies but other countries dont.People come HERE for health care .NO ONE from here goes abroad for health care.

You gotta be kidding me? Do you actually believe that?! I almost got whiplash reading your post.
I hate to break it to you Billy, but "medical tourism" is one of the few industries that's booming.
Medical tourism is the euphemistic term used when so many Americans fly abroad in order to have surgeries.