Author Topic: (21st Aug) Love or Hate? (Read 7827 times)

leonp1981 · « **on:** August 21, 2009, 04:05:31 PM »

Ultimate Warrior

Is the Ultimate Warrior someone whose popularity and fame could only be rivalled by Hulk Hogan? A man who drew huge attention and ratings wherever he went, and should have been inducted into the Hall of Fame by now? Was he used as scapegoat by Vince when the steroid scandal hit WWF, and fired, only to be hired again some years later just to boost ratings again?

OR

Did he believe his own hype to such an extent that it made him virtually impossible to work with? Despite the WWF pushing him repeatedly, with squash victories over Honky Tonk and HHH, did he always manage to let them down? Is his success completely overshadowed by his poor work ethic, and attitude, causing his failure in wrestling, his wrestling school, politics, and even a short lived comic book?

Montague · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2009, 08:38:59 PM »

As always, Leon, both sides of your debate are good, and both offer truthful & accurate statements.
However, in this instance I’m leaning more towards the latter one.

You’ll hear many conflicting opinions on most guys.
But you only hear the same – or similar – opinions about Hellwig; he was a difficult to work with prick.

He sold a lot of tickets and merchandise, but he wasn’t around for very long. That’s not to say he was a flash in the pan, but he didn’t have the longevity of Hogan. That’s the true test – if you keep selling out arenas for years and years, or are simply a novelty act of which fans will eventually bore.

chaos · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2009, 09:11:57 PM »

Some guys used a term to describe him that basically meant he burnt out during his ring entrance and they would have to carry him through the match...

Montague · « **Reply #3 on:** August 22, 2009, 05:37:48 AM »

The entrance was about the extent of his repertoire. Once he shook the ropes and got in the ring, it was pretty much over for him until he hit the gorilla press & splash at the end.

In one of his first matches with the Fed, he went home somewhere around the one-minute mark. The road agent for that show was PISSED, and wanted to fire him right there, but it was said he got orders from Vince to correct/warn UW.

I’ve always believed that the old man wanted Hellwig in the WWF. He was just a pain in the ass to do business with – very stubborn and unprofessional.

leonp1981 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 22, 2009, 08:09:36 AM »

The thing with Warrior is that, even today I think he could draw a crowd. If he suddenly appeared on RAW, people would go nuts for him. Does that make him great though?

Montague · « **Reply #5 on:** August 22, 2009, 08:31:50 AM »

I think it means he would draw a crowd as part of a program for several weeks.
People would tune in for the hype and/or nostalgia.
And with the current state of Vince's shows, a UW return would certainly boost ratings that can't get much lower.

Hogan’s comebacks have been substantial and meaningful.
Warrior’s usually last less than a month and fail to culminate in anything of substance.

He either demands too much $$, or he turns in a Halloween Havoc type match, and people are left wondering why they just spent $40 on a PPV.

For the amount of buildup his programs have been given, the finales are most often HUGE letdowns.

Yes, he would still pop a crowd.
But so did Freddie Blassie when he appeared on TV in a wheelchair about 7 or 8 years ago.

Playboy · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2009, 12:46:12 PM »

Warrior as he is now called is a genuine jackass in real life. No one in the wrestling world likes him at all and he has had some run ins with other wrestlers. I know the Iron Shiek wanted to kick the shit out of him at an autograph signing because Warrior felt he was "too good" and wanted to sign his autographs away from the shiek.

mass 04 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2009, 01:41:01 PM »

His in ring stuff is what it is. He couldn't work a match to save his life, but he didn't have to so I'll give him a pass on that. The thing i don't like about him is his attitude towards other guys and his lack of passion for the business. I read a story once where someone went up to him a complimented him on a great match with Andre to which he replied, 'Go masturbate at home'. IMO his reign as champion was a bomb.

Playboy · « **Reply #8 on:** August 25, 2009, 04:45:26 AM »

Quote from: mass 04 on August 24, 2009, 01:41:01 PM

His in ring stuff is what it is. He couldn't work a match to save his life, but he didn't have to so I'll give him a pass on that. The thing i don't like about him is his attitude towards other guys and his lack of passion for the business. I read a story once where someone went up to him a complimented him on a great match with Andre to which he replied, 'Go masturbate at home'. IMO his reign as champion was a bomb.

If you want to have a laugh, watch the Self destruction on the Ultimate Warrior DVD and you will see what a prick he really is. Check out the other wrestlers comments.

mass 04 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 25, 2009, 09:29:46 AM »

Quote from: Playboy on August 25, 2009, 04:45:26 AM

If you want to have a laugh, watch the Self destruction on the Ultimate Warrior DVD and you will see what a prick he really is. Check out the other wrestlers comments.

I've seen it. As much as dislike the guy, I don't see how guys like JR can comment when he wasn't around for his initial run and guys like the Brooklyn Brawler trash him. Hennan, who i have 1000% respect for buries him too, so that legitimazies it.

Playboy · « **Reply #10 on:** August 25, 2009, 11:34:29 AM »

Quote from: mass 04 on August 25, 2009, 09:29:46 AM

I've seen it. As much as dislike the guy, I don't see how guys like JR can comment when he wasn't around for his initial run and guys like the Brooklyn Brawler trash him. Hennan, who i have 1000% respect for buries him too, so that legitimazies it.

I hear you on the J.R. part but Brawler wrestled him as a jobber for the first several months of his carrer. I love the story Heenan told of Andre during the Warrior/ Andre run. No one fucked with Andre.

Montague · « **Reply #11 on:** August 25, 2009, 06:58:15 PM »

Quote from: Playboy on August 25, 2009, 11:34:29 AM

No one fucked with Andre.

That's because nobody was stupid enough...

...except UW.

That really shows the mentality he had/has.

Playboy · « **Reply #12 on:** August 26, 2009, 06:27:19 AM »

Quote from: Montague on August 25, 2009, 06:58:15 PM

That's because nobody was stupid enough...

...except UW.

That really shows the mentality he had/has.

I heard that Andre was the type of guy that if he walked in the room and looked moody, you stayed away from him. If he was in a good mood, he was easy going. Going into WM3, Hogan shit his pants before their match because Andre kept to himself behind closed doors and no one knew what the finish was going to be. Andre approached Hogan just minutes before their match and told Hogan what the finish was going to be. And he and Hogan were close friends. Imagine a punk like Warrior?

Hulkster · « **Reply #13 on:** August 27, 2009, 02:13:27 PM »

I thought he was good. granted, I was 12 at the time, but still.

he had a great gimmick, strange but funny interviews and could connect with a crowd like few others ever could, even to this day:

as far as him not being able to work, I believe that is not necessarily true, because he has demonstrated in many great matches against rude and savage, that he can work well.

as far as his title reign bombing, well, its no wonder.

what did the WWE do with him?

no hogan rematch, a bunch of 6 man tags with LOD vs Demolition, then they have him face Rude AGAIN

they didn't have anyone lined up to face him at all, other than someone he had already crushed.

so its no wonder his reign bombed. but I wouldnt say it was his fault..more like the victim of bad bookings. shitty programs..

Montague · « **Reply #14 on:** August 28, 2009, 05:32:57 AM »

Good points, but don’t forget that Rude and (especially) Macho were good workers whose skill could make up for some of the shortcomings of their sometimes less than adequate opponents.
IOW they could pick up the other guy’s slack & carry a match, which helped tremendously when it came to UW’s limited ring repertoire.

This is just speculation, but I’ve always believed that UW was meant to be a transitional champion. I think Vince always knew he would come back to Hogan as the number one guy, at least until after the Zahorian trial.

The UW character was good and drew big money for a while, but I think it was a little too one-dimensional and obscure to ever be in the same plane as Hulkamania.

mass 04 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 28, 2009, 07:49:21 AM »

Quote from: cheftim on August 28, 2009, 07:20:37 AM

Every fued the turn coat Sgt. Slaughter had was aweful. But his matches against the Ultimate Warrior were the worst. Broke my heart in two when he pinned the Hulkster. Then he beat Macho as well in the retirement match. Never enjoyed watching him beat up on Mr. P either. Loved it when he was mixed up with Jake and the Undertaker. Saw the Warrior live many many times. I always enjoyed the guy. But I don't think he was worthy of such tremendous victories over the Federations biggest stars. Saw him scoop slam Andre in MSG.

It's amazing the push he got. Pinned Honky Tonk under a minute to win the IC title, beat Rude several times, pinned Hogan clean at WM, retired Savage. The sad part is, he didn't even appreciate it.

Hulkster · « **Reply #16 on:** August 29, 2009, 12:09:37 PM »

doubt it because for most of warrior's time, HBK was a rocker.

but he did punch him and eliminate him at the 1990 Royal Rumble.

memorably since he was the last person in the ring besides hogan and warrior...

Hulkster · « **Reply #17 on:** August 29, 2009, 12:21:05 PM »

Quote

Who did this guy ever loose to?

he lost to Andre clean in japan

but I cant find the damn link on youtube. but I have seen it before.

Andre got pissed, sat on him, and pinned him.

Playboy · « **Reply #18 on:** August 31, 2009, 04:57:30 AM »

Remember also that they tried with Warrior. He beat Hogan for the WWE title in WM6 but they made him lose it at Royal Rumble several months later ro Slaughter because Warrior was not carrying the company. I was at Skydome in Toronto for that Wrestlemania when Warrior beat Hogan. When Warrior won and Hogan was leaving the ring, the fans were watching Hogan leave instead of watching the new champ in the ring.

mass 04 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 03, 2009, 10:30:06 AM »

just rewatched this gem...

Playboy · « **Reply #20 on:** September 03, 2009, 11:02:34 AM »

Quote from: mass 04 on September 03, 2009, 10:30:06 AM

just rewatched this gem...

That match was a total clusterfuck. One of the worst matches I have ever seen in my life. The crowd must have been pissed.

Montague · « **Reply #21 on:** September 03, 2009, 03:53:55 PM »

Hogan stores the flash cotton in a plastic bag to keep it dry inside his trunks.
Then when he opens the bag (of which the camera provided a spectacular view) he drips sweat and tanning oil all over it.

He’s then so afraid of getting burnt that he’s in a big hurry to get rid of the cotton from his hand and throws it before it’s lit.
Then, determined to light it the second time, he holds onto it too long and it goes off in his hand anyway.

Warrior sells the imaginary fireball…

What’s so bad about this match?

Playboy · « **Reply #22 on:** September 04, 2009, 04:46:24 AM »

Quote from: Montague on September 03, 2009, 03:53:55 PM

Hogan stores the flash cotton in a plastic bag to keep it dry inside his trunks.
Then when he opens the bag (of which the camera provided a spectacular view) he drips sweat and tanning oil all over it.

He’s then so afraid of getting burnt that he’s in a big hurry to get rid of the cotton from his hand and throws it before it’s lit.
Then, determined to light it the second time, he holds onto it too long and it goes off in his hand anyway.

Warrior sells the imaginary fireball…

What’s so bad about this match?

The match was horrible. They had NO chemistry. A far different match from their wrestlemania 6 match but given the fact that they are much older here is understandable. They had no timing whatsoever.

Montague · « **Reply #23 on:** September 04, 2009, 05:28:02 AM »

I was being sarcastic.

Playboy · « **Reply #24 on:** September 04, 2009, 12:47:48 PM »

Quote from: Montague on September 04, 2009, 05:28:02 AM

I was being sarcastic.

Gotcha.